Being Perfect

[elijah23]

Faith generates good works. Good works for works sake, or for brownie points with God doesn't work. Good works is a natural outflow of faith.


God is pleased with faith.

So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love. 1 Cor 13:13 RSV

Faith is a virtue, but the greatest virtue is love, is it not?

 

[jasoncran]

Jesus told us to be perfect. I think we can achieve that. That is the theme of this thread. What’s wrong with the theme?

i disagree, if we could why the need for the cross? surely the ot law would suffice as you put the need to repent daily.

what the difference if we need to repent daily for salvation?

the law itself cant redeem, and somehow we can with christ be perfect with our effort.

sure faith must have works but that is evidence of the changed hearts and as alabaster said that isnt for salvation.

itsn not jesus and works that gets you in.

jesus in you that has works as evidence of the changed heart that is what salvation is.

 

[elijah23]

eat chocolate, and also that isnt a command as caffeine isnt that much of a psychoactive agent.

many things you eat may have that in it.

I don’t eat chocolate because of the caffeine.

 

[elijah23]

i disagree, if we could why the need for the cross?

We are not allowed to disagree with Jesus.

 

[jasoncran]

We are not allowed to disagree with Jesus.

lets see here.

<< Matthew 5:48 >>
the word for perfect is from the greek meaning what, maturity.
meaning that we grow in him. perfect isnt a good translation there perhaps some should say it this way then

look like me and strive to be like me.

in that striving context meaning that when we first came to christ as a babe we were young and immature and when we aged in life and remained in him we should be more like him but never fully able to be like him.

theres a verse on this in 1 john 2:12-19 kjv
on this and you see what he means clearly.
fathers(elders) men who aren babes but are more mature then the babes.

John 2:12-1912 I write to you, little children,Because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake. 13 I write to you, fathers,Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.I write to you, young men,Because you have overcome the wicked one.I write to you, little children,Because you have known the Father. 14 I have written to you, fathers, Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.I have written to you, young men,Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,And you have overcome the wicked one.

τελειοι adjective - nominative plural masculine
teleios tel'-i-os: complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter completeness -- of full age, man, perfect

 

[Alabaster]

There are certain things the Lord has taught me not to do. These are serious sins and I am punished for them. Among them are:

I am to be chaste. Since I am not married, I am not allowed to engage in any sexual activity. If I were married, I’d be required to be faithful to my wife.
I am not allowed to use tobacco.
I am not allowed to use alcohol.
I am not allowed to use drugs without a doctor’s prescription.
I am not allowed to use caffeine.

I appreciate the fact that you recognize that these things are requirements set down by God for you, personally.

However, I think you need to realize that while God will ever bless you for your compliance to His will for you, should you ever step over the line, God does not punish. He is rich in mercy toward His own. Although you may experience some measure of consequence, God's punishment is reserved for sinners.

 

[Alabaster]

No, I think some effort on our part is involved.

We need to seek to follow Christ, yes, but no amount of effort will win any more favour from God than we already have right now! If we have faith in Jesus Christ, He is greatly pleased!

 

[Alabaster]

Jesus told us to be perfect. I think we can achieve that. That is the theme of this thread. What’s wrong with the theme?

I believe you are insisting on a gospel of works.

 

[Alabaster]

So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love. 1 Cor 13:13 RSV

Faith is a virtue, but the greatest virtue is love, is it not?

Without faith in Jesus Christ you have nothing. God looks on the heart. Where He sees faith, He is pleased. It starts with faith, and His love is generated in us.

Ephesians 3:17-19 NKJV
17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

 

[elijah23]

I appreciate the fact that you recognize that these things are requirements set down by God for you, personally.

However, I think you need to realize that while God will ever bless you for your compliance to His will for you, should you ever step over the line, God does not punish. He is rich in mercy toward His own. Although you may experience some measure of consequence, God's punishment is reserved for sinners.

The Lord’s discipline is for our own good. And he is merciful.

 

[elijah23]

We need to seek to follow Christ, yes, but no amount of effort will win any more favour from God than we already have right now! If we have faith in Jesus Christ, He is greatly pleased!

The Lord requires us to put forth effort.

 

[elijah23]

I believe you are insisting on a gospel of works.

I am sharing my own personal experiences. When I sinned freely, I was miserable. The Lord led me to repent of sin, and when I did, life became beautiful.

 

[elijah23]

Without faith in Jesus Christ you have nothing. God looks on the heart. Where He sees faith, He is pleased. It starts with faith, and His love is generated in us.

Ephesians 3:17-19 NKJV
17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

I agree faith is necessary, but I’ve never heard anyone build a religion around that one thing.

I believe it begins with these two things: love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself.

It would seem to me that faith is part of loving the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul.

 

[Alabaster]

The Lord’s discipline is for our own good. And he is merciful.

That is right, but it is not the same as punishment, which is the wrong concept that many have about God.

 

[Alabaster]

I am sharing my own personal experiences. When I sinned freely, I was miserable. The Lord led me to repent of sin, and when I did, life became beautiful.

Great! Even when life is hard, it is still a joy to know Christ. Even when we are not perfect. He doesn't over-burden us.

 

[Alabaster]

I agree faith is necessary, but I’ve never heard anyone build a religion around that one thing.

I believe it begins with these two things: love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself.

It would seem to me that faith is part of loving the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul.

Build a religion? Jesus never came to establish a religion.

Faith in Christ begets the right kind of love.

 

[Deavonreye]

Elijah23, I'm curious about your list.

Since I am not married, I am not allowed to engage in any sexual activity.
If I were married, I’d be required to be faithful to my wife.
I am not allowed to use tobacco.
I am not allowed to use alcohol.
I am not allowed to use drugs without a doctor’s prescription.
I am not allowed to use caffeine.

Except for the "caffeine" thing, . . . may I ask why the "use of alcohol" was forbidden? Were you once an alcoholic? The bible doesn't say that a person can't drink fermented drinks, and Jesus was said to have turned water into wine [btw, not "water into grape juice" either]. I'm not understanding here.

 

[mondar]

that isnt what the bible says. are we ever so holy that we wont sin on this of earth?
nope.if i sin once then i have to repent therefore your point is moot

as 1 john 1:9 says if any man sin know this we have a propitation the man christ jesus who is faithful and just to forgive and faithful and just to forgive us of all sins.

not he didnt say you shall become so sinless that you wont ever sin. just that when you do repent and the lord will forgive you and take that desire away.

Care to include verse 8 with your verse.... I think it is applicable to what you say.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Elijah seems to be affirming that we can have no sin.

 

[elijah23]

That is right, but it is not the same as punishment, which is the wrong concept that many have about God.

Whatever you call it, it’s for our own good, is it not?

 

[elijah23]

Build a religion? Jesus never came to establish a religion.

Faith in Christ begets the right kind of love.

Or is it that love of the Lord begets faith?