Belief and Faith

[GodsGrace]

no actually for some reason .it never turns out civil between you and me... so i refrain .but the post was between wondering and i ..not a third party

LOL
Actually E, what YOU are doing is rather not nice.
chessman and I were NOT arguing, we were discussing.
What YOU are doing is arguing. And I never told you to chill out,,,it's not in my vocabulary.

Please contribute to the thread.

 

[GodsGrace]

no actually reading the post it has a 50/50 mix discussion /debate and a tad bit of who is wrong and who is right . falls to the same level when i discussed being slain in the spirit . you can tie in all the TOS you want. its still going to remain the same..

E, you never discussed being slain in the spirit with me.
You must have me mixed up with someone else.

I'd also like to say that everyone here will not always agree, but we could be nice to each other. Disagreeing is not the same as arguing.

 

[WIP]

E, you never discussed being slain in the spirit with me.
You must have me mixed up with someone else.

I'd also like to say that everyone here will not always agree, but we could be nice to each other. Disagreeing is not the same as arguing.

Likewise, arguing is not the same as fighting. An argument by definition is just a point of view.

 

[GodsGrace]

Likewise, arguing is not the same as fighting. An argument by definition is just a point of view.

Agreed. But people understand it to mean fighting.

So many words have changed in meaning.

 

[MarkT]

Sorry Mark,,,what I was getting at is do YOU believe that works are not necessary and that we are not kept saved by works.

This is what I hear these days.

IOW, I believe, as born again believers, we are required to do good works and that this obedience keeps us saved and abiding in Christ.

Would you agree with this?

(I know some deeds are good and some are evil).

I hope it's not to stay saved. Because then you would be condemned by your words and every good work you failed to do would condemn you.

But we are justified by faith. So when we do what's in our heart, we receive divine approval, and by trial, we show we are approved by God.

"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the men of old received divine approval. 3 By faith we understand that the world was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was made out of things which do not appear." Hebrews 11:1-3 RSV

But when we fail to do what we should do, the Lord disciplines us.
Deuteronomy 8:5
Know then in your heart that, as a man disciplines his son, the Lord your God disciplines you.

 

[WIP]

To deny works is just as fatal, is it not? James 4:17.

 

[JLB]

Because then you would be condemned by your words and every good work you failed to do would condemn you.

But we are justified by faith.

For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned. Matthew 12:37



JLB

 

[MarkT]

To deny works is just as fatal, is it not? James 4:17.

Sorry. I don't understand the question.

 

[MarkT]

To deny works is just as fatal, is it not? James 4:17.

I said, "When we do what's in our hearts." I'm talking about doing good. Born again believers are always ready to do good. It's in our nature.

The issue is whether we are saved by works or by the power of God. I believe we are saved by the power of God.

Romans 3:23-25 Revised Standard Version (RSV)
23 since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins;

 

[MarkT]

Sorry Mark,,,what I was getting at is do YOU believe that works are not necessary and that we are not kept saved by works.

This is what I hear these days.

IOW, I believe, as born again believers, we are required to do good works and that this obedience keeps us saved and abiding in Christ.

Would you agree with this?

(I know some deeds are good and some are evil).

I would add we were created to do good. It's not that works are necessary or not necessary. Born again believers do good, not as a requirement, but because they are born again believers. Born again believers don't pass judgment others. Born again believers abide in Christ. Born again believers obey the truth.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

[WIP]

I said, "When we do what's in our hearts." I'm talking about doing good. Born again believers are always ready to do good. It's in our nature.

What I hear too often in the Church, even in my own country Lutheran church, is what sounds to me like a fear of doing good works. Whenever I mention doing good works I get countered with Ephesians 2:8 as if goods works are taboo. I believe good works go hand-in-hand with belief. We are known by our fruits.

 

[JLB]

What I hear too often in the Church, even in my own country Lutheran church, is what sounds to me like a fear of doing good works. Whenever I mention doing good works I get countered with Ephesians 2:8 as if goods works are taboo. I believe good works go hand-in-hand with belief. We are known by our fruits.

Amen!

 

[ezra]

What I hear too often in the Church, even in my own country Lutheran church, is what sounds to me like a fear of doing good works. Whenever I mention doing good works I get countered with Ephesians 2:8 as if goods works are taboo. I believe good works go hand-in-hand with belief. We are known by our fruits.

works follows salvation
Colossians 3:23

“And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;”