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Biblical Mary!

Bible said:
Thank you it refers to disciple so it must apply to all disciples
Other wise it would use his personal name and only apply to John
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Not so; you're reading your own misinterpretation of Scripture. It doesn't refer to "disciple"; it says, "So when Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing there..." That refers to John.

John 13:25, "Then the disciple whom Jesus loved leaned back against Jesus’ chest and asked him, “Lord, who is it?”
John 19:26, "So when Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing there, he said to his mother, “Woman, look, here is your son!”
John 20:2, "So she went running to Simon Peter and the other disciple whom Jesus loved and told them, “They have taken the Lord from the tomb, and we don’t know where they have put him!”
John 21:7, "Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” So Simon Peter, when he heard that it was the Lord, tucked in his outer garment (for he had nothing on underneath it), and plunged into the sea."
John 21:20, "Peter turned around and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them. (This was the disciple who had leaned back against Jesus’ chest at the meal and asked, “Lord, who is the one who is going to betray you?”)

Clearly and obviously, the disciple whom Jesus loved was John. It most definitely does not refer to all disciples.
 
jaybo said:
Not so; you're reading your own misinterpretation of Scripture. It doesn't refer to "disciple"; it says, "So when Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing there..." That refers to John.

John 13:25, "Then the disciple whom Jesus loved leaned back against Jesus’ chest and asked him, “Lord, who is it?”
John 19:26, "So when Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing there, he said to his mother, “Woman, look, here is your son!”
John 20:2, "So she went running to Simon Peter and the other disciple whom Jesus loved and told them, “They have taken the Lord from the tomb, and we don’t know where they have put him!”
John 21:7, "Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” So Simon Peter, when he heard that it was the Lord, tucked in his outer garment (for he had nothing on underneath it), and plunged into the sea."
John 21:20, "Peter turned around and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them. (This was the disciple who had leaned back against Jesus’ chest at the meal and asked, “Lord, who is the one who is going to betray you?”)

Clearly and obviously, the disciple whom Jesus loved was John. It most definitely does not refer to all disciples.
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That’s true but the part where he says behold thy mother only says disciple
What about rev 12:17?
 
Truthfrees said:
God says differently: man does not live by bread alone but by every word of God - better than leaning on man's understanding - Proverbs 3:5-6 - Matthew 4:4 - Deuteronomy 8:3
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Scripture is clear the Word of God is not limited to Scripture...

1 Thessalonians 2:23 ---> And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 ---> So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

Luke 10:16 ---> Whoever listens to you listens to me, and whoever rejects you rejects me, and whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.

Hebrews 13:7 ---> Remember your leaders, those who spoke the word of God to you...
 
jaybo said:
Can you show me anywhere in Scripture where it says that they were not uterine brothers? Of course not, since it doesn't say that anywhere. If it does, please show us where...
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Yes, as I have done multiple times in this forum. The "brothers" listed are identify a different Mary as their mother. Mary the wife of Cleophas (Clopas) is called the mother of James, Joseph, Simon and Judas in Matthew 13:55. Matthew abbreviates this list by naming (likely) the oldest two, James and Joseph in Matthew 27:56 as this Mary’s (Cleophas) sons. This Mary is stated to be the mother of James and Joses and is also present at the Cross per St. John's Gospel (John 19:25).

Ergo, when James, Joseph, Simon and Judas are called Jesus’ “brothers” in Matthew 13:55, this cannot mean uterine siblings based on the fact that St. Matthew names a different Mary as their mother.

In Jewish antiquity, "brother" had a much wider meaning than we modern Westerners use. You cannot impose a 21st century Western nuclear family structure with our own use of “brother” to that of Jewish culture in antiquity. The term had a much broader use in antiquity.
jaybo said:
I don't really pay any attention to your private interpretation of Scripture; I believe what Scripture clearly says (and don't believe what it doesn't say).
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Settle this for Christendom and simply provide the verse which lists all of Mary's supposed subsequent maternities.
jaybo said:
I am the son of my mother (and father), but I have siblings. So your statement that "Jesus is THE son of Mary, not A son of Mary" is meaningless. I am both the son of my mother and a son of my mother.
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Again, Scripture doesn't call Jesus "a" son of Mary. Remember, you believe "what the Scripture clearly says." It clearly says He is THE son of Mary.
jaybo said:
Your (trite) expression that Scripture nowhere teaches sola Scriptura is meaningless. Have you ever read, "For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any double-edged sword, piercing even to the point of dividing soul from spirit, and joints from marrow; it is able to judge the desires and thoughts of the heart." It doesn't say that the extra-Biblical teachings of men are living and active that divide soul from spirit, and joints from marrow -- because they don't!
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Are you aware Scripture does not confine the word of God to that which is written?

What does Scripture call the pillar and foundation of the truth?
jaybo said:
If you want to live by something other than God's Word -- the Bible -- then you are following false teaching. Sola scriptura.
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By adhering to sola Scriptura, you are living by something other than God's Word, as God's word never teaches it is confined to the Scriptures. The doctrine is self-refuting.

You cannot even arrive at the Scriptura without violating the sola.
 
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Walpole said:
Yes, as I have done multiple times in this forum. The "brothers" listed are identify a different Mary as their mother. Mary the wife of Cleophas (Clopas) is called the mother of James, Joseph, Simon and Judas in Matthew 13:55. Matthew abbreviates this list by naming (likely) the oldest two, James and Joseph in Matthew 27:56 as this Mary’s (Cleophas) sons. This Mary is stated to be the mother of James and Joses and is also present at the Cross per St. John's Gospel (John 19:25).

Ergo, when James, Joseph, Simon and Judas are called Jesus’ “brothers” in Matthew 13:55, this cannot mean uterine siblings based on the fact that St. Matthew names a different Mary as their mother.

In Jewish antiquity, "brother" had a much wider meaning than we modern Westerners use. You cannot impose a 21st century Western nuclear family structure with our own use of “brother” to that of Jewish culture in antiquity. The term had a much broader use in antiquity.

By adhering to sola Scriptura, you are living by something other than God's Word, as God's word never teaches it is confined to the Scriptures.

You cannot even arrive at the Scriptura without violating the sola.
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Excellent
Abraham and lot are called brothers
(Really uncle and nephew)
Matt 10:2 both James have a father other than Joseph
Jesus was 12 went to the temple scripture implies he was an only child
On the cross where are his brothers?
 
Bible said:
Excellent
Abraham and lot are called brothers
(Really uncle and nephew)
Matt 10:2 both James have a father other than Joseph
Jesus was 12 went to the temple scripture implies he was an only child
On the cross where are his brothers?
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This modern day notion of Mary having subsequent maternities stems from a lack of understanding of the Incarnation.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
Keep your eyes fixed on her and she comes to life
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Please have a specific question

be happy to explain
Biblical Mary:

Mother of God Lk 1:43

Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun. Immaculate purity

Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30

Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34
A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!




Walpole said:
This modern day notion of Mary having subsequent maternities stems from a lack of understanding of the Incarnation.
Click to expand...
 
Bible said:
Excellent
Abraham and lot are called brothers
(Really uncle and nephew)
Matt 10:2 both James have a father other than Joseph
Jesus was 12 went to the temple scripture implies he was an only child
On the cross where are his brothers?
Click to expand...
Why does Jesus going to the temple imply he was an only child?
The reason he got lost is because children used to travel with others too,,,not only with the parents. So Mary and Joseph did not even immediately notice that He was missing.
 
Walpole said:
the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.
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paul speaks to gentiles who know nothing of God's word as they were not raised on scripture or the covenants of God - so he had to spoon feed them what every jewish believer knew

remember paul was sent to the gentiles and the other apostles were sent to the jews - context is very important
 
Bible said:
Please have a specific question

be happy to explain
Biblical Mary:

Mother of God Lk 1:43

Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun. Immaculate purity

Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30

Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34
A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
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I wonder if my fellow Protestants believe that Mary was born without a sin nature?

Anyone could reply.
 
Bible said:
That’s true but the part where he says behold thy mother only says disciple
What about rev 12:17?
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You have an odd way of interpreting Scripture. "So when Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing there, he said to his mother, “Woman, look, here is your son!” It says "the disciple whom he loved" (with the definite article) not just "disciple".

What does Revelation 12:17 have to do with this? "So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went away to make war on the rest of her children, those who keep God’s commandments and hold to the testimony about Jesus."
 
Walpole said:
Luke 10:16 ---> Whoever listens to you listens to me, and whoever rejects you rejects me, and whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.

Hebrews 13:7 ---> Remember your leaders, those who spoke the word of God to you...
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see as i said the Torah is the only Word of God at that time - everything God said was already written down by the prophets - the nt are the letters explaining Torah to the gentiles - if you notice the apostles to the jews did not have to post so much teaching because as per Acts15:21 every jew went to synagogue every shabbat to hear moses - they had done this their entire life - only gentiles had never heard the Words of God or the covenants of God or the promises of God as recorded in Torah
 
Truthfrees said:
paul speaks to gentiles who know nothing of God's word as they were not raised on scripture or the covenants of God - so he had to spoon feed them what every jewish believer knew

remember paul was sent to the gentiles and the other apostles were sent to the jews - context is very important
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Paul is speaking to believers in his epistle to the Thessalonians.

---> "...to the church assembled at Thessalonica in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thes 1:1)


He is also speaking to Jews in Hebrews...

---> "In old days, God spoke to our fathers in many ways and by many means..." (Heb 1:1)
 
Walpole said:
Paul is speaking to believers in his epistle to the Thessalonians.

---> "...to the church assembled at Thessalonica in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thes 1:1)
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read the nt again - paul in acts is declared as the apostle to the gentiles and the other apostles are declared the apostles to the jews

check it out - very little teaching in the apostles letters - but extensive teaching in paul's letters
 
jaybo said:
Of course not. There is nothing in the Bible that says that Mary was sinless.
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Right.
But would it make sense for God to pick a special woman to n
bear a Son?

If Mary had a sin nature, she'd be just like everyone else.

Why do you think God found favor in her?
 
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