Biblical proof of NON-inspiration of all scripture.

[Orion]

Here is one bit of evidence that proves that the whole Bible is, in fact, NOT "all inspired of God". Here it is:

Philemon

 

[inhopeofglory]

What? How does Philemon "prove" the "non-inspiration" of Scripture?

 

[Imagican]

Yeah,

I can't wait to hear this one too.

MEC

 

[Orion]

Because it so obviously came from the mind of Paul, . . . as well as his own hand, as he points out himself.

 

[veeman]

Hi, if this letter seems uninspired you might also look at 3 John, 1 Tim. 5:23, 2 Thess. 3:17, and so on. The fact that Paul was Spirit-filled did not make him talk about or for God every time he opened his mouth to dictate or wrote a greeting to a church. I believe (as I'm sure do many Bible scholars) these passages are sharply enough differentiated from surrounding texts to make them readily understood as speaking of mundane things, not of God.

Nevertheless, in Philemon Paul seems to be using all his persuasive powers to spare the life of the slave, repentant thief and new Christian Onesimus, which makes him either a terrible meddler or a very loving pastor. Paul's letters radiate the love of Christ when dealing with relatively tough real-world issues, and I think thereby display divine inspiration.

It seems too bad that Paul's variations in tone and topic affect your belief in "all scripture". I might respectfully recommend a good text on Biblical interpretation such as R.C. Sproul's book "Knowing Scripture". God bless.

 

[follower of Christ]

Because it so obviously came from the mind of Paul, . . . as well as his own hand, as he points out himself.

uh...yeah :crazy
By that logic little in scripture is 'inspired'.

 

[veeman]

No, no. Read my whole post. My point is that a great deal of Scripture is inspired even if speaking of mundane things.

 

[Orion]

Because it so obviously came from the mind of Paul, . . . as well as his own hand, as he points out himself.

uh...yeah :crazy
By that logic little in scripture is 'inspired'.

The logic is sound, . . . .so, . . .yeah. :yes

 

[Orion]

No, no. Read my whole post. My point is that a great deal of Scripture is inspired even if speaking of mundane things.

So, when Paul says that "he is writing this with his own hand", you would still say it was "inspired"? Was it coming from Paul, . . . or was Paul still just writing what God was placing in his heart? :gah

 

[follower of Christ]

The logic is sound, . . . .so, . . .yeah. :yes

Im sure you believe it is

 

[follower of Christ]

So, when Paul says that "he is writing this with his own hand", you would still say it was "inspired"? Was it coming from Paul, . . . or was Paul still just writing what God was placing in his heart? :gah

Huh.
Gee I guess by your illogical nonsense Galatians also isnt inspired...

See with what large letters I have written to you with my own hand!
(Gal 6:11)

Do you people just think of ways to dismiss the scriptures ?
Your standard for determining inspiration boggles the mind.
I guess REAL inspiration means the pen floats above the paper and writes itself :crazy

 

[Orion]

My thoughts are hardly "illogical".

I choose to not exalt a book. We only have ONE verse that suggests an "God breathed inspiration of all scriptures", . . when it is obviously isn't. What's more "logical", . . . placing words in God's mouth that may not be his, or taking a stance of many places being FROM men, . . . and that it is really okay if it is?

 

[inhopeofglory]

If we can't trust ALL of Scripture as God's Word, then how can we trust ANY of it? If the Bible only contains God's Word, then on what basis do we say a particular passage is or isn't from God?

The doctrine of the inspiration of Scripture has always been understood by Bible-believers as God sovereignly guiding and directing His human authors as they wrote. They certainly weren't automatons, their hands/pens "writing by themselves" with no engaging of their minds.

2 Peter 1:20-21: "... knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit."

 

[stranger]

Orion wrote:

So, when Paul says that "he is writing this with his own hand", you would still say it was "inspired"? Was it coming from Paul, . . . or was Paul still just writing what God was placing in his heart?

Hi Orion,

Paul writing this with his own hand may simply mean he was not dictating the letter.

blessings

 

[david_james]

Orion wrote:

So, when Paul says that "he is writing this with his own hand", you would still say it was "inspired"? Was it coming from Paul, . . . or was Paul still just writing what God was placing in his heart?

Hi Orion,

Paul writing this with his own hand may simply mean he was not dictating the letter.

blessings

:amen

 

[Cornelius]

My thoughts are hardly "illogical".

I choose to not exalt a book. We only have ONE verse that suggests an "God breathed inspiration of all scriptures", . . when it is obviously isn't. What's more "logical", . . . placing words in God's mouth that may not be his, or taking a stance of many places being FROM men, . . . and that it is really okay if it is?

You are not standing on any Rock, but only on sand. (little rocks that you are unsure of IF they are indeed the Word)Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and smote upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall thereof. When storms come (and they will) you will not be able to take one promise and stand on it, because you have no way of knowing if that promise is indeed from God or man.

Its not just one scripture that tell us about the Word of God. Here Paul tells the Thessalonians that they indeed are correct to take the message that the apostles brought to them, not as the word of men, but as it is IN TRUTH......the Word of God.

1Th 2:13 And for this cause we also thank God without ceasing, that, when ye received from us the word of the message, even the word of God, ye accepted it not as the word of men, but, as it is in truth, the word of God, which also worketh in you that believe.

Satan has been robbing many Christians from the truth about the Word of God. "Logic" does not carry points with God. In fact He is against the "wisdom of man" (human logic)1Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And the discernment of the discerning will I bring to nought.
1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

 

[follower of Christ]

Orion wrote:

So, when Paul says that "he is writing this with his own hand", you would still say it was "inspired"? Was it coming from Paul, . . . or was Paul still just writing what God was placing in his heart?

Hi Orion,

Paul writing this with his own hand may simply mean he was not dictating the letter.

blessings

Very likely as it seems that Paul may have had poor eyesight given his comment about writing so large.

See with what large letters I have written to you with my own hand!
(Gal 6:11)

Seems odd to do so unless there was some reason Paul was having trouble writing with his own hand. It is commonly accepted that some of Pauls letters were dictated and not written by his own hand.

 

[follower of Christ]

My thoughts are hardly "illogical".

Apparently that is debatable since we are having this discussion.

I choose to not exalt a book.

Obviously.

We only have ONE verse that suggests an "God breathed inspiration of all scriptures",

Are you kidding me friend ? The OT is full of evidence that God has inspired the scriptures. It doesnt say 'except for these parts'.

. . when it is obviously isn't.

In your opinion. An opinion you have yet to provide valid support for.

What's more "logical", . . . placing words in God's mouth that may not be his, or taking a stance of many places being FROM men, . . . and that it is really okay if it is?

Gods word says that all scripture is God breathed. If I accepted your beliefs then I could just dismiss ANY part of scripture that I didnt want to deal with by claiming it wasnt inspired.
The bible is the enemy of many false doctrines because it gives us clear precepts to obey and its pretty hard to add to when we take it as it is given. Its very clear why some want to bring inspiration into question.

 

[Orion]

I appreciate what you all are saying. However, IF it looks like small talk from Paul, and is about his wishes for a group of people to welcome someone, . . . why can't that just be FROM Paul? Why does it HAVE to be "completely inspired of God"? As I said, I refuse to make an idol out of what MEN penned to whatever media they did, back then. Regardless of who may believe it was all from the mind of God (and that is what inspiration actually means in Christianity), too many places seem to be the exact mindset OF men, . . . . . and I would hope that a TRUE God would be far more advanced than some of the concepts found in there. That's not to say that REAL inspiration didn't happen from time to time. God making his true thoughts known to men, and them writing it down. But yeah, there really IS no way to know for sure, . . .and because of that, I can't "just have faith in the Bible" when that uncertainty is there.

No "house built on the sand" here. Take the story of The Prodigal Son, for example. That is an excellent story of how God reacts to us. If I go through hard times and forget where I'm from, I know that there is a father who still cares and still wants to give me a huge hug when I come to him, regardless of how stupid I may have been. I know that if I sin, his grace is sufficient to cover it, and then I go on trying my best to not do that again. Also, I know that all things will work out for good, that it rains on the just and unjust, that life is better when you love, are patient, good, have joy, peace, kindness, . . . when you do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I'm not "anti-Bible"!!

 

[follower of Christ]

I appreciate what you all are saying. However, IF it looks like small talk from Paul, and is about his wishes for a group of people to welcome someone, . . . why can't that just be FROM Paul?

I understand what you are trying to get at, I went thru a spell of it myself with this particular passage...

2Ti 4:13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments.

Just jumps right out at me as being uninspired. Just a request to bring a some things that Paul apparently needed.
But the problems begin here because my view is that scripture is purposely written in such a way as to make one who WANTS falsehood to be able to find it. When someone WANTS to see contradictions, they are VERY easily found. When one WANTS to see lack of inspiration, its not hard to miss.
I personally believe that this IS inspired but given so that those looking for 'flaws' in the inspired word of God have just what they are looking for.

It is entirely like our God to give a lie to those who look for one. It is entirely like Him to set things up so that delusion comes to those who cant just take things in faith, without which it is IMPOSSIBLE to please Him (Heb 11:6).

The alternative is to start trying to figure out what IS and what ISNT inspired. Which means that Pauls instructions in 1 cor 7:12 to the UNequally yoked is entirely UNinspired and thus can be ignored if one wishes to. Im personally not going there. Ive seen the result of this sort of thing and its not pretty.
It sounds harsh, but we see enough in scripture along these lines that Im no longer willing to risk it. If His word SAYS that all scripture is inspired, I take it on faith that it is without question.