Biblical understanding

[miamited]

Hi donadams

I was referring to the 7 OT books and more chapters in Esther and Daniel that we have thanks

Nope, as I explained, I'm pretty sure that Jesus would have told us if there was anything more necessary, or anything unneeded, in the OT.

God bless,
Ted

 

[BB1956]

Infants are devoid of grace without baptism and cannot enter the kingdom of heaven Jn 3:5 if they die before the age of reason
And the Bible does teach infant baptism acts 2:38-39 see below
Thanks

John 3:5 isn't in any kind of context talking about infant baptism when Jesus was talking to Nichodemus.

When discussing Acts 2:38-39 you conveniently left out that in that discussion that the apostle was having with the people after the apostles had spoken in tongues, the scripture Acts 2:41 which says all who accepted his word were baptized. Infants can't understand anything enough to accept what the apostle Peter was saying. So no this scripture isn't teaching infant baptism.

 

[BB1956]

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say adults only or except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say adults only or except infants!)
(Scripture does not say anywhere “do not baptized infants”)

Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!

Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants

Thee faith is required for adult baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.

But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.

Repentance is required for adult baptism. Acts 2:38

If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.

For two thousand years the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always baptized infants!

Acts 1:8
Witness of Augustine!

It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).

“The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration” (ibid., 2:27:43).

“Baptism washes away all, absolutely all, our sins, whether of deed, word, or thought, whether sins original or added, whether knowingly or unknowingly contracted” (Against Two Letters of the Pelagians 3:3:5 [A.D. 420]).

“This is the meaning of the great sacrament of baptism, which is celebrated among us: all who attain to this grace die thereby to sin—as he himself [Jesus] is said to have died to sin because he died in the flesh (that is, ‘in the likeness of sin’)—and they are thereby alive by being reborn in the baptismal font, just as he rose again from the sepulcher. This is the case no matter what the age of the body. For whether it be a newborn infant or a decrepit old man—since no one should be barred from baptism—just so, there is no one who does not die to sin in baptism. Infants die to original sin only; adults, to all those sins which they have added, through their evil living, to the burden they brought with them at birth” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Love 13[41] [A.D. 421]).

First of all I disagree that the apostle Peter is the greater rock that the church founded and built on. Such people who believes this wants people to put their faith in an imperfect human. Jesus Christ is the greater rock that the church is founded and built upon.
Also I'm not going to throw away scriptures like 1 Peter 3:21 & Matthew 28:19, 20 and others that similarly show a human being must understand and exercise faith in what they're hearing which is the reason why such human beings get baptized.
Water baptism symbolizes a person’s dying to his past course of life and beginning a new one as a Christian dedicated to God. Baptism and the steps that lead up to it are God’s arrangement for a person to gain a clean conscience based on his faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 3:21) Thus, Jesus taught that his disciples must get baptized.(Matthew 28:19, 20) So obviously disciples are people who understand what they have heard exercised faith and get baptized and live their lives for Jesus Christ, following his footsteps closely.

At Luke 1:10, 11 nobody was getting baptized nor was baptism the context of this scripture. It can no way be used to teach infant baptism.

The way you choose to reason on 1 Corinthians 12:13 you ignore the scriptures that say, those hearing the word, and embracing what they have heard heartily and repenting of their sins, should be ignored. You ignore the fact that a human being must make a solemn decision, which makes it apparent that the human being must be at an age to hear, believe, and make a decision.
Those who favor infant baptism because of scriptures saying households or that a scripture says all were baptized forget that the scriptures say that they spoke in tongues and glorified God after being baptized. Such can't be applied to infants.(Acts 10:44-46) The scriptures make it clear that a human being must believe on the Lord Jesus in order to be baptized, and this includes everyone. A infant can't make such a decision.

 

[DiscipleDave]

What is the rule of faith for Christians or the source of truth?

i am ignorant to any Rule of Faith for Christians. However the Source of Truth, is the Word of God, and what God reveals to whom God reveals.

What does the unity of Christ in His church consist of?

Unity of Christ in His Church consist of? i know not, i have never seen that.

Scriptures time and again, plainly teaches us to have ONE MIND, to think the SAME things, we have over 120 different denomination in the Christian Faith. How is that UNITY? It's not. As i said, i have never seen it.

 

[DiscipleDave]

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

There is ONLY ONE WAY to get to Heaven, NOT TWO!

To get to Heaven a person must believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and accept Him as their Savior and Lord, and repent of their sins and follow Him. There is NO OTHER WAY then this. And there are no exceptions, even if you believe there is.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Infants are devoid of grace without baptism

So then WATER brings them Grace? No it does not.

Water is of the Earth. Living Water is Spiritual Water that one is Baptized with, hence called the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, this is done by Spiritual Water that Jesus provides, NOT physical Earthly water that humans provide.

Water from the Earth can NEVER cleanse a person (Spiritually/washing of sins). EVER! Living Water from Jesus is what Cleanses a person.

Infant baptism does absolutely NOTHING for the infant, but DOES, for the parents with their faulty beliefs in infant baptisms.

 

[Who Me]

the thing is this, do you believe God knows best? Do you love him enough to be able to exercise faith that what he says is what's important?

Or is our understanding actually what God is saying?

Church history is full of men saying as you have said, yet being unwilling to allow an others view and this is on secondary issues like baptism, church leadership/organisation, order of service, how people dress, speak God only understands 16th centuary english!

What is important is being saved and living for Jesus, everything else is secondary.

 

[BB1956]

Or is our understanding actually what God is saying?

Church history is full of men saying as you have said, yet being unwilling to allow an others view and this is on secondary issues like baptism, church leadership/organisation, order of service, how people dress, speak God only understands 16th centuary english!

What is important is being saved and living for Jesus, everything else is secondary.

I don't agree with compromising Scripture. When I can see for myself that scripture isn't saying what a person is saying I'm going to disagree. I've seen for myself that people will take a scripture out of context to try to prove their point or belief. While I love people I love God more. So I hate when people takes a scripture out of context to try to prove their point so I will disagree with that person. Just because I disagree with a person doesn't mean I don't love the person.

 

[donadams]

Reply to Miamited it’s not biblical 230

One church without error?
The Holy Spirit leads the apostles into all truth hence no error, Jn 16:13 they must teach us Matt 28:19

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church! Jn 15:1-5 Rom 16:26

Thanks

 

[donadams]

Reply to Miamited it’s not biblical 230

Saved?

Not til the hour of death. Matt 24:13

Salvation is the end of our faith not the beginning.

1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

27. Heb 1:14 shall be heirs of salvation

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(Must remain obedient)

(He who endured to the end) one who dies in a state of grace united to Jesus Christ by faith and baptism!
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:21
Matt 24:13


Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible if baptism is rejected!




“Faith alone”?

Charity

Deut. 6:5
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Even all faith without charity avails nothing! 1 cor 13:2

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema.

Three things are eternal not “faith alone” 1 cor 13:13

Thanks

 

[donadams]

Hi donadams

Nope, as I explained, I'm pretty sure that Jesus would have told us if there was anything more necessary, or anything unneeded, in the OT.

God bless,
Ted

Where does Jesus or any scripture say what is scripture?
Wycliffe Protestant Bible has them
The original KJV had them until the English Bible society deleted them by the tradition of men.

Example Jn20:22 and wisdom 15:11

Have ever read the faith story of Susana in Dan 13?

 

[BB1956]

There is ONLY ONE WAY to get to Heaven, NOT TWO!

To get to Heaven a person must believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and accept Him as their Savior and Lord, and repent of their sins and follow Him. There is NO OTHER WAY then this. And there are no exceptions, even if you believe there is.

I agree a person must exercise faith that God sent his only begotten Son to the world of mankind to die for mankind and that God three days after his death resurrected his only begotten Son back to life will get everlasting life. That's how you get eternal life yes. But God chooses some among those who have exercised that faith to be kings, Priest, and judges with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom to rule over all those that are on earth who have exercised that same kind of faith. So not all who exercise that faith will get immortal incorruptible life in heaven with Jesus. God chooses who will get life in heaven. So the only way to get to heaven is if God chooses you to be a king, judge, and Priest with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom to rule over righteous humanity on planet earth

 

[donadams]

Christ is the truth. The church is the pillar of truth.

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9:4 Jn 15:1-5 eph 4:4 eph 5:24 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

Church / apostles are the means of transmission of the truths revealed by God in Christ. Matt 5:14 Matt 16:18-19 Matt 18:18Matt 18:17 Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23acts 1:8 acts 8:31 Lk 1:4

Jn 14:6 refers to Christ and not us, we are not and cannot be the only arbiter of truth, nor can we through private judgment (spiritual pride) give meaning and interpret scripture or decide doctrine, let humble ourselves and obey Christ and His church and be taught. Lk 1:4 Matt 11:29

The prophet speaks for God, to believe the prophet is to believe God, to reject the prophet is to reject God who sent Him. Isa 53:1who hath believed our report.


To believe the apostles is to believe Christ who sent them to teach and sanctify all men, Matt 28:19 to reject the apostles is to reject Christ.
To accept the church and her teaching is to accept Christ, to reject the church is to reject Christ who established the church.

The person of an apostle is endowed with power and authority, not only their writings.

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, andspeak face to face, that our joy may be full.

 

[donadams]

John 3:5 isn't in any kind of context talking about infant baptism when Jesus was talking to Nichodemus.

When discussing Acts 2:38-39 you conveniently left out that in that discussion that the apostle was having with the people after the apostles had spoken in tongues, the scripture Acts 2:41 which says all who accepted his word were baptized. Infants can't understand anything enough to accept what the apostle Peter was saying. So no this scripture isn't teaching infant baptism.

Basic Principle: if something is not possible it is not required and the church has always believed and taught infants can be baptized nowhere does scripture say: “do not baptize” infants
Entire household baptized it don’t say except infants.

Jn 3:5 refers to baptismal regeneration see vs 22 they went to the river (water) and baptized
Thanks

 

[BB1956]

Basic Principle: if something is not possible it is not required and the church has always believed and taught infants can be baptized nowhere does scripture say: “do not baptize” infants
Entire household baptized it don’t say except infants.

Jn 3:5 refers to baptismal regeneration see vs 22 they went to the river (water) and baptized
Thanks

 

[BB1956]

Basic Principle: if something is not possible it is not required and the church has always believed and taught infants can be baptized nowhere does scripture say: “do not baptize” infants
Entire household baptized it don’t say except infants.

Jn 3:5 refers to baptismal regeneration see vs 22 they went to the river (water) and baptized
Thanks

First of all, John 3:22 doesn't say at any way that infants were baptized. Anyone that says infant baptism was done by Jesus or his apostles have not shown me in scripture where that scripture is. When people talk about a scripture that says all were baptized or that households were baptized are ignoring that you have to exercise faith and repent of sins before being baptized. Being baptized is that outward show that you have died to your former way of life which contradicted how God said you should live and repented and turn your life around and dedicated your life to God and his Christ.
It's always been required that a person understands why they need to be baptized. A person must make a decision concerning what they have heard is the truth and then repent of there former course in life and dedicate themselves to God. Once they have made such a decision they are baptized.

 

[donadams]

First of all I disagree that the apostle Peter is the greater rock that the church founded and built on. Such people who believes this wants people to put their faith in an imperfect human. Jesus Christ is the greater rock that the church is founded and built upon.
Also I'm not going to throw away scriptures like 1 Peter 3:21 & Matthew 28:19, 20 and others that similarly show a human being must understand and exercise faith in what they're hearing which is the reason why such human beings get baptized.
Water baptism symbolizes a person’s dying to his past course of life and beginning a new one as a Christian dedicated to God. Baptism and the steps that lead up to it are God’s arrangement for a person to gain a clean conscience based on his faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 3:21) Thus, Jesus taught that his disciples must get baptized.(Matthew 28:19, 20) So obviously disciples are people who understand what they have heard exercised faith and get baptized and live their lives for Jesus Christ, following his footsteps closely.

At Luke 1:10, 11 nobody was getting baptized nor was baptism the context of this scripture. It can no way be used to teach infant baptism.

The way you choose to reason on 1 Corinthians 12:13 you ignore the scriptures that say, those hearing the word, and embracing what they have heard heartily and repenting of their sins, should be ignored. You ignore the fact that a human being must make a solemn decision, which makes it apparent that the human being must be at an age to hear, believe, and make a decision.
Those who favor infant baptism because of scriptures saying households or that a scripture says all were baptized forget that the scriptures say that they spoke in tongues and glorified God after being baptized. Such can't be applied to infants.(Acts 10:44-46) The scriptures make it clear that a human being must believe on the Lord Jesus in order to be baptized, and this includes everyone. A infant can't make such a decision.

Did Jesus give Peter the jurisdictional authority (keys)
Our faith in God Jn 14:6 Peter and the apostles are established to govern the church and receive the kingdom
Infant baptism yes if something is not possible then it’s not required thanks

 

[miamited]

Hi donadams

Have ever read the faith story of Susana in Dan 13?

No. Does it tell us something different than what the 66 books we now have, tell us about someone's faith?

You see, and I'm pretty sure I mentioned it. I don't need to read 500 accounts of people's faith in God. What I need to read is just one account of the faith that God asks me to have. Personally, I find that God has been pretty clear on that without wasting a lot of our time making the Scriptures some laborious tome that no one reads because it's just too long and boring.

I really don't think you understand the purpose for which God gave us His Scriptures. It wasn't to give us a complete world history as to what everyone on the planet has done to show their faith or love or obedience to Him. So, you're welcome to search the world over for every scrap of writing from 2,000 years ago and prior, and bring everything to light. Publish it in a book and call it the 'Scriptures that are absolutely everything that has ever been written about God prior to Jesus visiting us'. Then send it off to a publisher and get it published and you'll be able to tell everyone that now 2,000 years after the closing of the canon of Scripture ---you know better what God intended us to have.

Go with that!

God bless,
Ted

 

[BB1956]

Did Jesus give Peter the jurisdictional authority (keys)
Our faith in God Jn 14:6 Peter and the apostles are established to govern the church and receive the kingdom
Infant baptism yes if something is not possible then it’s not required thanks

While I agree that Peter and some of the other apostles had positions of authority, meaning they were elders, the Apostle Peter was no pope who presided over the other apostles in the Christian Congregation(church). Some say that what is said at Matthew 16:16-19 and John 21:15-17 that the apostle Peter was the first Pope.
The scriptures reveal later, on a number of occasions, that all the apostles argued about who was the greatest among them. (Matthew 20:20-27; Mark 9:33-35; Luke 22:24-26) If Jesus had already given Peter primacy, or superiority, could there have been any question as to who was the greatest among the apostles?
So at Matthew 16: 17, 18 I disagree that it says that the apostle Peter would be head of the Christian congregation. What I see from scripture is that it shows that rather than Peter having primacy, Jesus was to be the cornerstone of the congregation(Church). (1 Peter 2:4-8) Jesus is the chief cornerstone, in other words Jesus is the greater stone that the congregation(Church) is founded and built up on. Those who reject Jesus as being the greater stone the congregation is founded and built up on, then this greater rock, who is Jesus, has become to them a stumbling stone because they reject Jesus as the chief cornerstone or foundation cornerstone that the congregation(Church) is built up on.

Jesus told Peter at Matthew 16:19: “I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of the heavens.” What did Jesus mean? His reference to “keys” indicated that Peter would open up knowledge and opportunities for distinct groups to enter the Messianic Kingdom. So on what occasions did Peter use these keys?

(1) Peter used the first key at Pentecost 33 C.E. when he urged Jews and Jewish proselytes to repent and be baptized. Some 3,000 did so and became prospective heirs of the Kingdom.(Acts 2:1-41).

(2) The second key was used not long after the martyrdom of Stephen. In this instance, Peter and John laid their hands on recently baptized Samaritans, after which these new converts received Holy Spirit.(Acts 8:14-17)

(3) Peter used the third key in 36 C.E. In that year, he extended the hope of the heavenly inheritance to uncircumcised Gentiles. This occurred when the apostle gave a witness to Cornelius, the first uncircumcised Gentile to become a Christian disciple.(Acts 10:1-48)

 

[miamited]

Hi donadams

One church without error?

There is one church. I'm not sure the Scriptures or many of Paul's letters and Jesus' letters to the first fellowships give us an indication as to whether or not there will be any error among them.

Christ and His church are one!

Yes, in Spirit.

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ.

I've revised your 'truth' here. Don't really know where you found a reference to the Jesus' church in all of that.

Salvation is the end of our faith not the beginning.

I have been in agreement with that statement for many, many years.

It's not real clear, in your next post, the points you are trying to make. I read a lot of Scripture, but I'm not clear on the points that you're trying to make with all of them. I can tell you that I'm not particularly in agreement with all the power that you want to give to the 'church'. The 'church' is merely the people living upon the earth at any given moment that are born again believers in the only one who could make a way for our soon coming salvation. Because of that belief, their lives should align closely with how Jesus lived. However, we are all sinners and we won't be perfect in that until our bodies of death that enshroud our soul now, are remade clean and perfect.

God bless,
Ted