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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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believer_in_one
Member
- Jun 30, 2002
- 31
- 0
http://christianresearchnetwork.com
good information on some so called "christian leaders." I believe Billy Graham isn't a true believer.
good information on some so called "christian leaders." I believe Billy Graham isn't a true believer.
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bartdanr
Guest
- Thread starter
- #4
vic C. said:
Agreed, I don't think Billy is in the same group.
God bless!
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bartdanr
Guest
- Thread starter
- #5
believer_in_one said:
Hi believer--why don't you believe Billy Graham isn't a true believer? What is your evidence?
God bless!
believer_in_one
Member
- Jun 30, 2002
- 31
- 0
Did you go to the link? Billy Graham doesn't believe in John 14:6. It is too bad that his evangelism was all for not. His discussion with Robert Schuller on the, "Hour of Power," really solidified my view on him.
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bartdanr
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- Thread starter
- #7
believer_in_one said:
I went to the link and didn't find anything about Billy Graham there. On the links with Robert Schuller there wasn't any reference to Billy Graham. I did a search on the page for both "Billy" and "Graham"--nothing came up. However, I didn't search the entire site--only the page and the links about Schuller. I'll look for it.
As for "his evangelism was all for not"--I really don't think so. Millions of people, including myself, accepted Christ and were born again as a result of his ministry. Even if he himself is not saved (of which I am skeptical), the Gospel that he preached--the Bible's Gospel--has resulted in true conversions. Even if he's not saved, consider Paul's words in Phil 1:15ff.
God bless!
handy
Member
- Jun 21, 2007
- 10,028
- 99
I couldn't find anything regarding Graham on the link either, so I just Googled Graham Schuller and found the interview in question.
A few things:
Jesus said that we would know them by their fruit. Graham brought the gospel to millions, and millions turned their lives over to Christ because of his ministry. He brought the message of love to the world in a way that no other evangelist of the past century did. And, although a bucket was passed to defray the costs of the particular crusade, Graham wasn't in the business of shaking down the faithful in order to line his pockets. The bulk of his money came from his books.
Secondly, the interview: Believer-in-one, I would be most interested if you actually watched the interview in question, or if you just read the excerpt of it that is on-line. I find it a little suspect that the blogs I went to all had the same portions of the same interviews, all stopping at the same point.
As one who assuredly does believe in John 14:6, I can read what Graham said to Schuller, and come to a different conclusion than Graham supporting universalism. Years ago, I either read or heard Graham speak of folks who were doing exactly what he spoke of in the Schuller interview, and when the gospel came, they immediately responded to it, because the Spirit was at work in their hearts. Perhaps this was what Graham was getting at, but since all the bloggers only quote the part that they want us to see, it's hard to put his words into context.
Next, the statement of faith, taken directly from Graham's ministry: (emphasis mine)
The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association believes:
• The Bible to be the infallible Word of God, that it is His holy and inspired Word, and that it is of supreme and final authority.
• In one God, eternally existing in three personsâ€â€Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
• Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary. He led a sinless life, took on Himself all our sins, died and rose again, and is seated at the right hand of the Father as our mediator and advocate.
• That all men everywhere are lost and face the judgment of God, and need to come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ through His shed blood on the cross.
• That Christ rose from the dead and is coming soon.
• In holy Christian living, and that we must have concern for the hurts and social needs of our fellowmen.
• We must dedicate ourselves anew to the service of our Lord and to His authority over our lives.
• In using every modern means of communication available to us to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ throughout the world.
Lastly, I find it just a tad bit suspicious that after Graham's death, bloggers have come out of the woodwork to denigrate this wonderful evangelist, accusing him of being a false teacher. I'll leave it up to Satan to be the accuser. I'm not going to judge a man who spent decades of his life preaching the gospel to the world on the basis of one interview.
A few things:
Jesus said that we would know them by their fruit. Graham brought the gospel to millions, and millions turned their lives over to Christ because of his ministry. He brought the message of love to the world in a way that no other evangelist of the past century did. And, although a bucket was passed to defray the costs of the particular crusade, Graham wasn't in the business of shaking down the faithful in order to line his pockets. The bulk of his money came from his books.
Secondly, the interview: Believer-in-one, I would be most interested if you actually watched the interview in question, or if you just read the excerpt of it that is on-line. I find it a little suspect that the blogs I went to all had the same portions of the same interviews, all stopping at the same point.
As one who assuredly does believe in John 14:6, I can read what Graham said to Schuller, and come to a different conclusion than Graham supporting universalism. Years ago, I either read or heard Graham speak of folks who were doing exactly what he spoke of in the Schuller interview, and when the gospel came, they immediately responded to it, because the Spirit was at work in their hearts. Perhaps this was what Graham was getting at, but since all the bloggers only quote the part that they want us to see, it's hard to put his words into context.
Next, the statement of faith, taken directly from Graham's ministry: (emphasis mine)
The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association believes:
• The Bible to be the infallible Word of God, that it is His holy and inspired Word, and that it is of supreme and final authority.
• In one God, eternally existing in three personsâ€â€Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
• Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary. He led a sinless life, took on Himself all our sins, died and rose again, and is seated at the right hand of the Father as our mediator and advocate.
• That all men everywhere are lost and face the judgment of God, and need to come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ through His shed blood on the cross.
• That Christ rose from the dead and is coming soon.
• In holy Christian living, and that we must have concern for the hurts and social needs of our fellowmen.
• We must dedicate ourselves anew to the service of our Lord and to His authority over our lives.
• In using every modern means of communication available to us to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ throughout the world.
Lastly, I find it just a tad bit suspicious that after Graham's death, bloggers have come out of the woodwork to denigrate this wonderful evangelist, accusing him of being a false teacher. I'll leave it up to Satan to be the accuser. I'm not going to judge a man who spent decades of his life preaching the gospel to the world on the basis of one interview.
handy
Member
- Jun 21, 2007
- 10,028
- 99
Nope, you didn't. Sometimes there's a disconnect between my brain and my keyboard! :D
What I meant was since Ruth Graham's death. Billy is still alive, but I'll bet my bottom dollar that he is willing and ready to be taken home.
I'm not sure why there has been so much negativity about Graham since Ruth died and since Billy has pretty much retired out of the public spotlight because of health problems. Probably just the old cowards trick of hitting someone when they're down.
What I meant was since Ruth Graham's death. Billy is still alive, but I'll bet my bottom dollar that he is willing and ready to be taken home.
I'm not sure why there has been so much negativity about Graham since Ruth died and since Billy has pretty much retired out of the public spotlight because of health problems. Probably just the old cowards trick of hitting someone when they're down.
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bartdanr
Guest
- Thread starter
- #11
Thanks for your post, handy.
Often "heretic hunters" will start off with reasonable claims, pointing to obvious charlatans and heretics, but eventually they start throwing around the heretic label in a slipshod fashion. Accusations are easy to make.
"For the cause of the truth!" they might claim...but often it seems it simply becomes the cause of acusing the bretheren. I don't really relish being an accuser, knowing who the Arch-acuser is.
God bless!
Often "heretic hunters" will start off with reasonable claims, pointing to obvious charlatans and heretics, but eventually they start throwing around the heretic label in a slipshod fashion. Accusations are easy to make.
"For the cause of the truth!" they might claim...but often it seems it simply becomes the cause of acusing the bretheren. I don't really relish being an accuser, knowing who the Arch-acuser is.
God bless!
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bibleberean
Guest
- Thread starter
- #12
Billy Graham has preached a clear gospel message to millions of people around the world and I commend him for that.
That being said there is no excuse or justification for the following verified and confirmed statements he made to apostate Rober Shculler on May 31, 1997
"SCHULLER: Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?
GRAHAM: Well, Christianity and being a true believer -- you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ ... I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ, because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven."
"SCHULLER: What, what I hear you saying, that it's possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and soul and life, even if they've been born in darkness and have never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you're saying?
GRAHAM: Yes, it is, because I believe that. I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived."
That was an exact exerpt from that interview.
I do not give a blanket endorsement to the following source. I can give the web address for several more sources as well as this one.
http://www.biblebb.com/files/tonyqa/tc00-105.htm
I personally contacted the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association concerning his statement. I received a reply which stated that Billy believes that a "man is saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ".
Note:
They did not deny that Billy made the statement even though I sent them the quote verbatim made by Mr. Graham.) I then asked "if Billy had retracted or clarified the statement he made to Robert Schuller and if so when".
I did not receive a reply. I asked the same question of the BGEA multiple times and they did not respond. So, much for that.
Billy Graham is good friends with Robert Schuller. Schullers views and unbiblical messages are widely known. He has endorsed Robert Schuller's books and has supported and encouraged him from the beginning. I take issue with that as should any bible believing Christian.
Much of the church has become so "politically correct" and compromised in it's views that it has become "luke warm" just like the church of the Laodiceans .
Revelation 3:15-16 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Should Billy Graham be put on a pedestal and be above reproach? These are not the only issues I have with Mr. Graham.
Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
That being said there is no excuse or justification for the following verified and confirmed statements he made to apostate Rober Shculler on May 31, 1997
"SCHULLER: Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?
GRAHAM: Well, Christianity and being a true believer -- you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ ... I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ, because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven."
"SCHULLER: What, what I hear you saying, that it's possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and soul and life, even if they've been born in darkness and have never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you're saying?
GRAHAM: Yes, it is, because I believe that. I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived."
That was an exact exerpt from that interview.
I do not give a blanket endorsement to the following source. I can give the web address for several more sources as well as this one.
http://www.biblebb.com/files/tonyqa/tc00-105.htm
I personally contacted the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association concerning his statement. I received a reply which stated that Billy believes that a "man is saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ".
Note:
They did not deny that Billy made the statement even though I sent them the quote verbatim made by Mr. Graham.) I then asked "if Billy had retracted or clarified the statement he made to Robert Schuller and if so when".
I did not receive a reply. I asked the same question of the BGEA multiple times and they did not respond. So, much for that.
Billy Graham is good friends with Robert Schuller. Schullers views and unbiblical messages are widely known. He has endorsed Robert Schuller's books and has supported and encouraged him from the beginning. I take issue with that as should any bible believing Christian.
Much of the church has become so "politically correct" and compromised in it's views that it has become "luke warm" just like the church of the Laodiceans .
Revelation 3:15-16 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Should Billy Graham be put on a pedestal and be above reproach? These are not the only issues I have with Mr. Graham.
Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.