Blazin Bones
Member
Should a pastor be devoted souly to the Church or be Bivocational?
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Bivocational Pastors.....
- Thread starter Blazin Bones
- Start date
K
Khristeeanos
Guest
It depends on the size of the church amongst many other things I would say.
A church that has 50 members won't bring in the kind of $ $ $ to pay his salary full time, so he may need to work elsewhere.
But a large church should IMO.
A church that has 50 members won't bring in the kind of $ $ $ to pay his salary full time, so he may need to work elsewhere.
But a large church should IMO.
P
Pastor Eric
Guest
Shalom,
"should be"? They should be solely supported by the assembly.
Reality! That is not always possible and they should then also be prepared to be tent makers. This is essentially a problem that has been created by 'denominations and seminaries'. Those are not the issue here but the original method was for the Pastor to go to the city (area) where YHVH would send them and then start the work that YHVH had called them to and YHVH would provide. They then would be responsible to raise up the next generation of minsters to meet the need before their physical departure.
What is now probably considered an old Barna study concluded that 75% of people in the ministry wish they were doing something else. Those of us that are called to the ministry wish they were too! This is not a 'job" this is a "profession"! A profession of faith that one has been called by YHVH to fulfill and since HIS calling and gifts are without repentance we will fulfill it to the end!
If one is not called to the ministry, RUN! YHVH will not treat you like Jonah for running from some profession that HE has not called you to.
"should be"? They should be solely supported by the assembly.
Reality! That is not always possible and they should then also be prepared to be tent makers. This is essentially a problem that has been created by 'denominations and seminaries'. Those are not the issue here but the original method was for the Pastor to go to the city (area) where YHVH would send them and then start the work that YHVH had called them to and YHVH would provide. They then would be responsible to raise up the next generation of minsters to meet the need before their physical departure.
What is now probably considered an old Barna study concluded that 75% of people in the ministry wish they were doing something else. Those of us that are called to the ministry wish they were too! This is not a 'job" this is a "profession"! A profession of faith that one has been called by YHVH to fulfill and since HIS calling and gifts are without repentance we will fulfill it to the end!
If one is not called to the ministry, RUN! YHVH will not treat you like Jonah for running from some profession that HE has not called you to.
destiny
Member
I think they should hold down a job like everybody else, and the church as a whole should meet the needs of it's own along with the needs of the poor and downcast.
Tithes should be given according to the divine appointment of the Holy Spirit in the individual lives of the people, and offerings should be pooled to meet building maintenance.
Designating all of these things to one man is a large vice in the institutional church and it breeds nothing but PRIDE.
We all have gifts and callings in the body of christ, one calling shouldn't be on the pedestal above all others or we end up with what we have out there today.
He gave some to be apostles, some prophets....
Pastor is mentioned once along with the rest of them.
Tithes should be given according to the divine appointment of the Holy Spirit in the individual lives of the people, and offerings should be pooled to meet building maintenance.
Designating all of these things to one man is a large vice in the institutional church and it breeds nothing but PRIDE.
We all have gifts and callings in the body of christ, one calling shouldn't be on the pedestal above all others or we end up with what we have out there today.
He gave some to be apostles, some prophets....
Pastor is mentioned once along with the rest of them.
S
serapha
Guest
Hello et. al.
:smt039
I believe that pastors should do as the Holy Spirit directs them to do.
<full stop>
~serapha~
:smt039
I believe that pastors should do as the Holy Spirit directs them to do.
<full stop>
~serapha~
P
Pastor Eric
Guest
Shalom,
I posted this Where have you fallen? <--- Click here partially in response to this post. It may help then again it may cause even more problems but such is the nature of forums.
Be blessed!
I posted this Where have you fallen? <--- Click here partially in response to this post. It may help then again it may cause even more problems but such is the nature of forums.
Be blessed!
B
Brother Ian
Guest
There is nothing wrong with being bi-vocational. Some pastors choose to do it, some churches choose to have a bi-voactional pastor. In most cases, the term bi-vocational is only a term, the pastors spend just as much time ministering to the congregation as "full time" pastors, they just aren't paid as much.
I believe if the Lord call you to be a pastor then that should be your only job. God has promised to supply all our needs and we should trust in that. To me if a pastor takes a second job then he is pulling time from what the Lord has called him to do and is thus not trusting that the Lord will provide for all his needs.
If we take a look at the Apostles and disciples we will find they didn't have a penny to there name but there needs were met 100%. This doesn't mean their wants were met but only there needs.
The Lord has not called me to such a position (at least not yet) and it is my responsibility to support my pastor along with those in need. For that I thank the Lord that he has enabled me to do that.
If we take a look at the Apostles and disciples we will find they didn't have a penny to there name but there needs were met 100%. This doesn't mean their wants were met but only there needs.
The Lord has not called me to such a position (at least not yet) and it is my responsibility to support my pastor along with those in need. For that I thank the Lord that he has enabled me to do that.
Blazin Bones
Member
I figured I would revive this thread seeing as how I am now a Bi-Vocational Pastor. While there are certainly unique struggles to Bi-Vocational ministry, I'm enjoying it and seeing the need for it more now that I am serving in the role.
Are there any other Bi-Vocational Ministers around the site these days?
Are there any other Bi-Vocational Ministers around the site these days?
Gazelle
Member
Being bivocational is one tough gig. Your loyalties are split, and the dilemma of providing enough monetary support for the family aches within the heart. "Living by faith" is one thing.... trusting in the church people to provide is quite another. ;)
The work of the church, is varied and more than a full time job. To ask someone to do all that plus another job, plus travel, just isn't the best thing for the church. IMO the church people need more faith that God will provide for them and they need to agree to pay the pastor full time pay.
The number of people who call and come for counseling, the visitation of shut ins, new members, visitors etc are often left to the minister alone...yet even with members visiting once a week to some doesn't do much but allow the people to meet more people from the church. People feel slighted if they don't receive a visit from the pastor. There are meetings and coordination of events, and community gatherings where the pastor represents the church, as well. Then there is the time necessary for developing and ingesting the messages for at least one meeting a week, though many even small churches also have at least a study mid week. And you wonder why in a small church that also requires the minister to teach a Sunday School/Bible class that it is along the same theme of the sermon??? The pastor visits in the hospital also and that takes extra time in waiting because they aren't always in their room or available! The small church often leaves it to the minister to make sure everything about the church is organized... order the music for the choir, (sometimes even practice and lead them too!)...replenish the copier, create and copy the programs.... maybe even clean the church, clear the snow from the walkway Sunday morning... can you imagine?
Now try fitting that in after you work 20-30 hours at another job...and spend time with the family... and I haven't even mentioned the amount of prayer required! I'm sure there's more that I've forgotten (oh yes, interview or check out missionaries and others who wish to present before the church, find fill in preachers for when you're sick or away trying to fill your own cup... :D)
Just one of those positions...could be a full time job for someone else, yet the bivocational minister is expected to do all that plus. Nope, not good.
The work of the church, is varied and more than a full time job. To ask someone to do all that plus another job, plus travel, just isn't the best thing for the church. IMO the church people need more faith that God will provide for them and they need to agree to pay the pastor full time pay.
The number of people who call and come for counseling, the visitation of shut ins, new members, visitors etc are often left to the minister alone...yet even with members visiting once a week to some doesn't do much but allow the people to meet more people from the church. People feel slighted if they don't receive a visit from the pastor. There are meetings and coordination of events, and community gatherings where the pastor represents the church, as well. Then there is the time necessary for developing and ingesting the messages for at least one meeting a week, though many even small churches also have at least a study mid week. And you wonder why in a small church that also requires the minister to teach a Sunday School/Bible class that it is along the same theme of the sermon??? The pastor visits in the hospital also and that takes extra time in waiting because they aren't always in their room or available! The small church often leaves it to the minister to make sure everything about the church is organized... order the music for the choir, (sometimes even practice and lead them too!)...replenish the copier, create and copy the programs.... maybe even clean the church, clear the snow from the walkway Sunday morning... can you imagine?
Now try fitting that in after you work 20-30 hours at another job...and spend time with the family... and I haven't even mentioned the amount of prayer required! I'm sure there's more that I've forgotten (oh yes, interview or check out missionaries and others who wish to present before the church, find fill in preachers for when you're sick or away trying to fill your own cup... :D)
Just one of those positions...could be a full time job for someone else, yet the bivocational minister is expected to do all that plus. Nope, not good.
Christ_empowered
Member
my former therapist was also a minister. He actually trained to do both--masters in psychology and M.Div. He is very good at both jobs, and I think they're quite compatible with his overall mission: reaching the lost.
I think a) lots of pastors have no choice, especially if they have a family; b) ideally, the other job should exercise skills and training that will assist in their ministering to the flock (not always possible, but I saw it work so nicely for this guy); and c) pastors should listen to the Holy Spirit at all times. If the call of the world becomes too strong, it may be time to leave the ministry.
I think a) lots of pastors have no choice, especially if they have a family; b) ideally, the other job should exercise skills and training that will assist in their ministering to the flock (not always possible, but I saw it work so nicely for this guy); and c) pastors should listen to the Holy Spirit at all times. If the call of the world becomes too strong, it may be time to leave the ministry.
H
Hitch
Guest
It depends on whether or not he likes to eat.
H
Hitch
Guest
If He does you'll get quite an education.
handy
Member
I had just read this on a different thread:
6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.†2 Thess 3:6-10
Seems as if a case can certainly be made that pastors can be bi-vocational, as Paul and others were as well..."worked night and day". When a church can support a full time pastor, then by all means it should. But, there are many times a church, especially way out in country places, simply doesn't have the money to support a full-time minister. When that happens, and it happens all over the place, these ministers have other jobs...bi-vocational.
6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.†2 Thess 3:6-10
Seems as if a case can certainly be made that pastors can be bi-vocational, as Paul and others were as well..."worked night and day". When a church can support a full time pastor, then by all means it should. But, there are many times a church, especially way out in country places, simply doesn't have the money to support a full-time minister. When that happens, and it happens all over the place, these ministers have other jobs...bi-vocational.
If at all possible one job is enough..
We can not serve two masters.... Get the call run off to the hospital at 1 in the AM, wait in the ER with the family tell 4, then be ready to give your other employer his rightful time at 6?
To try and compare our lives today to those of 2000 years ago just does not make practical sense.
We can not serve two masters.... Get the call run off to the hospital at 1 in the AM, wait in the ER with the family tell 4, then be ready to give your other employer his rightful time at 6?
To try and compare our lives today to those of 2000 years ago just does not make practical sense.
Christ_empowered
Member
I think the general consensus is that the bivocational arrangement isn't ideal, but it is often necessary. Handy makes a good point; the local church isn't under an obligation to spend outside their means to prevent a pastor from having to be bivocational.
Gazelle
Member
Being bi vocational is ideal for a minister? :toofunny Not.
In the old days in USA, that's why they had circuit riders... because the people didn't have money so the minister lived in their homes while he was in town for the service, and fed, and then moved to the next town the next week or month... to live and proclaim Christ.
From what I see, people have money for what they want, in general. I think church people are going to lose reward because of their lack of faith in providing for the minister God has given them. ;)
In the old days in USA, that's why they had circuit riders... because the people didn't have money so the minister lived in their homes while he was in town for the service, and fed, and then moved to the next town the next week or month... to live and proclaim Christ.
From what I see, people have money for what they want, in general. I think church people are going to lose reward because of their lack of faith in providing for the minister God has given them. ;)