Blanket statements

[gingercat]

I have been accused of been generalizing many times.

I have been to many major denominations such as Lutheran, Methothist, First Baptist, Independant Baptist, Community Bible, Assembly of God; my family and I were members of those churches. I also talked to and visited other denominations and pastors.

I have also been watching churchgoers in my neighborhood almost 33 years. My husband is retired military so we have been to many places.

I have been expressing my observation based on what I experienced with those churches. I was also deepley invovled with them.

I don't believe I am exaggerating. Whether I am exaggerating or lying is up to God to decide and no one else.

My obeservation also go along with Billy Graham's statement of "Most chuchgoers' uncommitment".

I am asking everyone to be fair and discontinue accusing me of my observation of "generalizing".

His servant, hitomi

 

[Heidi]

I have been accused of been generalizing many times.

I have been to many major denominations such as Lutheran, Methothist, First Baptist, Independant Baptist, Community Bible, Assembly of God; my family and I were members of those churches. I also talked to and visited other denominations and pastors.

I have also been watching churchgoers in my neighborhood almost 33 years. My husband is retired military so we have been to many places.

I have been expressing my observation based on what I experienced with those churches. I was also deepley invovled with them.

I don't believe I am exaggerating. Whether I am exaggerating or lying is up to God to decide and no one else.

My obeservation also go along with Billy Graham's statement of "Most chuchgoers' uncommitment".

I am asking everyone to be fair and discontinue accusing me of my observation of "generalizing".

His servant, hitomi

Gingercat, Jesus said that only a few will find the narrow road to life and many will call him Lord and not enter the kingdom of heaven. So I agree with your assessment because it agrees with Christ's words. Being one of Christ's true sheep is as lonely a road as Christ's was. So we simply have to accept it. :wink:

 

[gingercat]

Thanks heide. :D

 

[stovebolts]

Hello Gingercat,

I thought that you might enjoy this article about Billy. It's actually very good and I hope that you enjoy it.

P.S. I don't agree with all of the author's commentary on all the subjects, but it is a great accumulation of some of Billy's work.

Peace in Christ,
Jeff

http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/bil ... ection.htm

I have many friends among Catholic priests, and a number of New York Catholic leaders have written me stating that they believe New York needs a spiritual awakening, and have promised me their prayers and interest even though they could not officially support the meetings, The Catholic Church has always been as friendly and as tolerant as their church law will allow them toward our crusades.

The visit of Pope Paul II to the United States is an event of great significance not only for Roman Catholics, but for all Americans - as well as the world... In the short time he has been Pope, John Paul II has become the moral leader of the world. My prayers and the prayer of countless other Protestants will be with him as he makes his journey.

 

[thessalonian]

I have been accused of been generalizing many times.

I have been to many major denominations such as Lutheran, Methothist, First Baptist, Independant Baptist, Community Bible, Assembly of God; my family and I were members of those churches. I also talked to and visited other denominations and pastors.

I have also been watching churchgoers in my neighborhood almost 33 years. My husband is retired military so we have been to many places.

I have been expressing my observation based on what I experienced with those churches. I was also deepley invovled with them.

I don't believe I am exaggerating. Whether I am exaggerating or lying is up to God to decide and no one else.

My obeservation also go along with Billy Graham's statement of "Most chuchgoers' uncommitment".

I am asking everyone to be fair and discontinue accusing me of my observation of "generalizing".

His servant, hitomi

Gingercat, Jesus said that only a few will find the narrow road to life and many will call him Lord and not enter the kingdom of heaven. So I agree with your assessment because it agrees with Christ's words. Being one of Christ's true sheep is as lonely a road as Christ's was. So we simply have to accept it. :wink:

So Ginger is a true sheep even though she believes in faith + works and potential loss of salvation?

 

[gingercat]

Thank you Stove for your input,

I don't agree with many of the popular evangelists' aproaches in their evangelism and spreading the Truth. They are too diplomadic and compromizing. They don't want to offend anyone at Jesus expense.

My family have been praying for overall christianity but we should be doing much more and churches are not doing. It seems to me becoming even worse than before :

The Bible tells us that this kind of christianity is expected but faithful ones are not supposed to be quiet about it or they will be called cowards by Jesus.

 

[stovebolts]

The Bible tells us that this kind of christianity is expected but faithful ones are not supposed to be quiet about it or they will be called cowards by Jesus.

That's an intersesting statment gingercat. I've never heard that we'd be called cowards by Jesus. Also, when I read all of Paul's letters, he is very gentle in his mannerisms towards everyone.

I'm just curious, can you give me a reference to the scripture you are alluding to?

Much thanks,
In Christ,
Jeff

 

[gingercat]

I am glad to Stove,

Rev 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolators and all liars - their place will be in the fierly lake of burning sulfure. This is the second death."

We should be able to read between the lines. We should speak up when it is time to speak up for the truth.

Interesting is that cowardly is in first one He is listing up.

 

[stovebolts]

Hmmm, very interesting take on that particular passage.

Just about every version I look at, including Youngs Literal says fearfull. I'm curious why the NIV uses coward.. FYI, when that happens, I always like to skim the original greek. Bear with me please.

Stongs
1169. deilos
from deos (dread); timid, i.e. (by implication) faithless:--fearful.

Also,
I'm very weak in end times 'stuff', so I always like to bounce it across some other views. Here is on of my favorite commentators and a portion what he has to say.

http://www.studylight.org/com/bcc/view. ... hapter=021

The fearful ...
Who are the fearful, if not all men? "But it is not of natural fear and timidity that John speaks; it is that cowardice which in the last resort chooses self and safety before Christ." "It is not fear which is condemned. The highest courage is to be desperately afraid and in spite of that to do the right thing and to hold fast to loyalty."

So really, when I skim this verse lightly, I see the cowardly ones that didn't have the courage to trust in Christ. I'm kind of thinking about Luke 12 around verses 16-23.

What do you think?

Jeff

 

[gingercat]

So really, when I skim this verse lightly, I see the cowardly ones that didn't have the courage to trust in Christ. I'm kind of thinking about Luke 12 around verses 16-23.

What do you think?

Jeff

I believe those verses are portraying our wealthy christianity. We are so rich materialy and enjoying it but not so compassionate to those around us. We have plenty of poor and hungry and we think we are doing enough. This kind of christianity is not of Jesus. We have so many excuses for not helping those who needs it.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Without generalizing you cannot have a real dialogue about any social group period.

There will ALWAYS be exceptions but the STATISTICS of generalizing which incude statements like "most Christians" or "most believers" is the fastest and most accurate way to have a conversation short of righting a textbook with graphs!

 

[gingercat]

Without generalizing you cannot have a real dialogue about any social group period.

There will ALWAYS be exceptions but the STATISTICS of generalizing which incude statements like "most Christians" or "most believers" is the fastest and most accurate way to have a conversation short of righting a textbook with graphs!

Excellent point, soma. This just another tactic to stop focusing on the truth and the reality. It is very often being used if they don't like to hear it.

 

[stovebolts]

So really, when I skim this verse lightly, I see the cowardly ones that didn't have the courage to trust in Christ. I'm kind of thinking about Luke 12 around verses 16-23.

What do you think?

Jeff

I believe those verses are portraying our wealthy christianity. We are so rich materialy and enjoying it but not so compassionate to those around us. We have plenty of poor and hungry and we think we are doing enough. This kind of christianity is not of Jesus. We have so many excuses for not helping those who needs it.

gingercat,

While I agree with your general interpretation of the passages in Luke, I believe that the verses mentioned look a bit different when we highlight the words ME. And we can then begin to see our selfish nature which is at the root of how you portray that parable when we delve a bit deeper into the issue.

What seperates us from God? Simple, it's our selfish nature and our inabilility to give ourselves to God. You see, it's not enough to give, it's the manner in which you give that we are judged upon.

When we look at the coward in the revelation passage, what holds him back for being a coward means to cower. Simple, it's fear... it's the inablility to get outside of oneself and have faith in which trust is built, which of course is a consideration of our relationship in Christ.

How does this fear, this being a coward express itself? Good question for which there are many answers. Perhaps one perspective might be keeping quite when we see something we disagree with... something we know is wrong. However, if we overcome this fear of speaking up, then does this not still make us responsible for the manner in which we speak about our disagreements? Tell me, what do you think about this?

But about your original comment which spurred our conversation, it's all in God's time.

The Bible tells us that this kind of christianity is expected but faithful ones are not supposed to be quiet about it or they will be called cowards by Jesus.

Ecclesiastes 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

I call it growing in the faith when we keep our eyes focused on Christ.

God bless you,

In Christ,
Jeff

 

[gingercat]

Well Jeff,

We can interpret in many ways about fearfulness or cowardly. I just expressed how I interpret and that's how I practice.

Thanks Jeff. :D

 

[stovebolts]

Not a problem gingercat.

I hope that the Lord has blessed you today through our conversation and that we can apply scripture in ways that bring us and those around us closer to Jesus.

Peace be with you,

Jeff

 

[stovebolts]

Ya know, I got to thinking about what we were talking about and this kinda came across my mind as well. What do you think?

Matthew 27:4-5 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see you to that. And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

I think that suicide is the most selfish thing a person can do. Tell me if you see this too, but Judas, even though he confesses that he's a sinner, never seeks forgivness and continues to take things into his own hands and commits suicide. Instead of turning to Jesus when he's convicted, he cowers in his own selfishness.

In Contrast, look what Peter did when he was convicted a few verse up.

Matthew 26:75 And Peter remembered the words of Jesus, who said unto him, Before the cock crows, you shall deny me three times. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

How many times are we so focused on us, that we fail to see Him?

 

[gingercat]

Yes, Jesus is marciful, He will forgive us of our sins as long as we ask for forgiveness and repent. It is very important that when we commit sins and recognize it, we repent.

 

[stovebolts]

Absolutly gingercat. I am in full agreement.

Listen, I've got to run, but I'd like to ask you a question and maybe after some thought you could reply (please don't post right back even though the answer looks so easy, please think and pray about this before you post)

Why do you think that Judas couldn't see Jesus when he was face to face with him for so long? I mean, here is a guy that ate with Jesus, yet in his deepest need, he couldn't turn to Him. Sad isn't it?

I have enjoyed our conversation today.

May peace and joy fill your evening.

In Christ,
Jeff

 

[gingercat]

Why do you think that Judas couldn't see Jesus when he was face to face with him for so long?

In Christ,
Jeff

I am only guessing that Judas was never seeking the Truth. His only interest was money so he was only thinking how he could use Jesus for his greedy purpose.

 

[stovebolts]

Believe it or not, I got stuck at work late tonight... ohhh boy... I wanna go home...

Anyway,

I think that it's pretty save to guess that Judas wasn't seeking the Truth, because sometimes the truth can be subjective right?

What I mean, and please let me know if you follow, but sometimes we can only see what were looking for and not what's actually in front of our very eyes. I know that I'm guilty of this and I believe it's part of our nature.

I mean, the Jews were looking for a King, and I believe that Judas believed that Jesus was the messiah. But Judas was seeing the truth that he had anticipated, and not the real truth that was standing, eating and teaching in his very presence.

Now, it could be very well that Juda was seeking money, but if that were the whole case, why did he give it back? I mean, he realized that he had sinned greatly. I mean, he knew he really messed up right? Imagine the guilt that he felt by being led by his pride. I mean, can you see where pride was driving him? Look, what if he wanted to jumpstart the kingdom and a part of me doesn't believe that Judas actually thought that Christ would die until the reality was in front of his face. I can just hear him.. oopppsss... yeah, he realized his mistake, but his pride didn't drop. He didn't repent because his focus was on himself, and not Christ.

Now, can you see the greed in other areas of Judas? Greed isn't always about money, no, greed is always about seeking our own needs and not trusting God for our needs. It's about what we want, not what God wants.

Heck, look at Peter when Jesus had to rebuke him. It's in our nature to be greedy and self centered. Wouldn't you agree?

I can't also help but think about the straight gate... we are battleing ourselves and even though victory is staring us in the face, we often have to over ride our own nature and just let go.

I've written enough. I'd like to really hear what you have to say about this.

Take care, and believe it or not, I'm ready to go home.

May Christ dwell richly within you.

Jeff