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Brainwashing

humble soul

On Sabbatical from Rome
Member
How do you know you arent brainwashed?
I dont know.
I think we choose what we want to be brainwashed by. I choose not to be brainwashed by born again science worshipping atheists.
I choose to be brainwashed by my childhood religion. I havent found a better option than Christianity yet.
Maybe ive lucked out and discovered the truth!!
 
How do you know you arent brainwashed?
I dont know.
I think we choose what we want to be brainwashed by. I choose not to be brainwashed by born again science worshipping atheists.
I choose to be brainwashed by my childhood religion. I havent found a better option than Christianity yet.
Maybe ive lucked out and discovered the truth!!

humble soul,

May I suggest a more comprehensive answer from Norman Geisler, 12 Points that proves Christianity is True Overview

I have pursued these 12 points that demonstrate the authenticity of Christianity and not brainwashed Christianity.

If you are brainwashed into Christianity, you can just as easily be brainwashed out of Christianity.

Oz
 
That just reinforces what I said on another thread. We all need basic training in Apologetics. Defending the Faith. But no..everyone said "leave it to the professionals."
 
Reason alone almost caused Tolstoy to suicide.He came to the conclusion that reason alone cannot lead to faith in God. So if apologetics explores "reason alone" it is not enough.
 
humble soul,

May I suggest a more comprehensive answer from Norman Geisler, 12 Points that proves Christianity is True Overview

I have pursued these 12 points that demonstrate the authenticity of Christianity and not brainwashed Christianity.

If you are brainwashed into Christianity, you can just as easily be brainwashed out of Christianity.

Oz
Im watching Norman Geisner now.
He is good but I have some strong reservations about his approach.
Too dogmatic. Doesnt want to admit any doubts.
"Jesus said the Bible was infallible. " I dont remember reading that in the Bible.
500 witnesses to Jesus being the Son of God?? questionable stats.
overall not impressed oz
 
500 witnesses to Jesus being the Son of God?? questionable stats

That's isn't a questionable stat. In fact Paul tells us that 500 people saw Jesus after he died. He explains this in 1 Corinthians 15: 3-8.

"For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born"
 
Brainwashed and indoctrinated are over used discriptions that rarely fit what they are describing. When someone says so and so is brainwashed or those people are indoctrinated, it's about dismissing them more then anything else.

Kindergarten through 12th grade is indoctrination. College too. In fact any kind of systematic education should be considered just as much indoctrination as being taught from your parents or from your church. The difference between a good education and indoctrination is the slant that a person views the information being taught. It is an over used term that only shows bias.

Brainwashing is more then just a negitive slant of education. This is the kind of thing that I would count as forced reprogramming of a person. I've heard stories of POWs taken by an enemy that then go through a means to turn that person against their own country. Arguably this could also be catogoritized as what the military does to their own people through boot camp and after. Strip them down of anything they were before and mold them to what the military wants them to be. Even the most positive use of reprogramming a person from a psychologist or a consoler giving cognitive behavior theory to help a patient stop some unhelpful thinking patterns or stop a negitive habit, would fit the catogary of brainwashing, because the therapy is about forcing a patterned thought or behavior to no longer be there.

Yet the way people use the term brainwashing is only applied to religous beliefs (and occasionally political views) that they do not agree with. The term brainwashed (like indoctrination) is used excessively towards the things the speaker does not believe and disagrees with. It's over used and an excuse to hold a negitive opinion due to their already held bias.

I can't speak for you and your beliefs, but I know that I was not indoctrinated or brainwashed. I actually looked into the matter to find out and consider what's true and what isn't. Our culture has so much doubt feeding it from pro-atheistic and anti-Christian philosophy that I would argue that most people consider if their beliefs are reliable or not. This dynamic alone should shut down the perspective of rampant indoctrination and brainwashing. But unfortunately that would also mean that those terms and perspectives against religion (and against Christianity specifically) are invalid and don't have a leg to stand on.

:angry3:whirl :wall

I'll get off my soap box now but brainwashing is one of the terms that I get angry about.
 
That's isn't a questionable stat. In fact Paul tells us that 500 people saw Jesus after he died. He explains this in 1 Corinthians 15: 3-8.

"For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born"
thanks. you are right. proves Im not as smart as I thought I was. and that apologetics requires thorough knowledge of the Bible.
 
The thing is though look at politics. Once people choose a side they generally look for reasons to rationalise their choice. People will overlook Trump's morals because he keeps the economy thriving.
We choose what journalist to read to validate our opinion. Im actually a conservative voter and I have a fave conservative journalist which gives me confidence that my own view is informed. I pretty much turn a blind eye to his shortcomings. Im not aware of them anyway.
 
Brainwashed and indoctrinated are over used discriptions that rarely fit what they are describing. When someone says so and so is brainwashed or those people are indoctrinated, it's about dismissing them more then anything else.

Kindergarten through 12th grade is indoctrination. College too. In fact any kind of systematic education should be considered just as much indoctrination as being taught from your parents or from your church. The difference between a good education and indoctrination is the slant that a person views the information being taught. It is an over used term that only shows bias.

Brainwashing is more then just a negitive slant of education. This is the kind of thing that I would count as forced reprogramming of a person. I've heard stories of POWs taken by an enemy that then go through a means to turn that person against their own country. Arguably this could also be catogoritized as what the military does to their own people through boot camp and after. Strip them down of anything they were before and mold them to what the military wants them to be. Even the most positive use of reprogramming a person from a psychologist or a consoler giving cognitive behavior theory to help a patient stop some unhelpful thinking patterns or stop a negitive habit, would fit the catogary of brainwashing, because the therapy is about forcing a patterned thought or behavior to no longer be there.

Yet the way people use the term brainwashing is only applied to religous beliefs (and occasionally political views) that they do not agree with. The term brainwashed (like indoctrination) is used excessively towards the things the speaker does not believe and disagrees with. It's over used and an excuse to hold a negitive opinion due to their already held bias.

I can't speak for you and your beliefs, but I know that I was not indoctrinated or brainwashed. I actually looked into the matter to find out and consider what's true and what isn't. Our culture has so much doubt feeding it from pro-atheistic and anti-Christian philosophy that I would argue that most people consider if their beliefs are reliable or not. This dynamic alone should shut down the perspective of rampant indoctrination and brainwashing. But unfortunately that would also mean that those terms and perspectives against religion (and against Christianity specifically) are invalid and don't have a leg to stand on.

:angry3:whirl :wall

I'll get off my soap box now but brainwashing is one of the terms that I get angry about.
please visit Anger thread then
 
Im not convinced the whole of the Bible is truth.

The apostle Paul was convinced all Scripture was breathed out by God (2 Tim 3:16-17 NIV). What was the nature of this God who breathed out Scripture?
  • 'God is not human, that he should lie' (Num 23:19).
  • 'God, who does not lie ' (Titus 1:2).
  • 'That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie' *Heb 6:18).
That doesn't mean that all that is recorded in the Bible is truth. What the serpent said to Eve was not true, but it is true that this is what the serpent said to Eve.
4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil” (Gen 3:4-5 NIV).​

I'm convinced the whole of the Bible is truthful about what happened and what will happen. I don't find any deceit by God/Jesus/Holy Spirit in the Bible.

Oz
 
Im watching Norman Geisner now.
He is good but I have some strong reservations about his approach.
Too dogmatic. Doesnt want to admit any doubts.
"Jesus said the Bible was infallible. " I dont remember reading that in the Bible.
500 witnesses to Jesus being the Son of God?? questionable stats.
overall not impressed oz

humble soul,

You accuse Norman Geisler of being 'too dogmatic' but what is your position regarding Jesus not stating the Bible was infallible? You said:

I dont remember reading that in the Bible.
500 witnesses to Jesus being the Son of God?? questionable stats.

The Bible doesn't speak of 500 witnesses of Jesus as the Son of God. It states:
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born (1 Cor 15:3-8 NIV).

There were more than 500 witnesses of the resurrected Christ.

You oppose Jesus stating Scripture is infallible, therefore, what did Jesus mean when he stated, 'Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God"' (Matt 22:29).

Oz
 
To be honest, what has really caused me to doubt the Bible is the complete and utter dismissal of homosexuality.
In OT and NT.
Gays feel ostracised by Christianity.
If I were gay I would probably not be Christian.
 
humble soul,

You accuse Norman Geisler of being 'too dogmatic' but what is your position regarding Jesus not stating the Bible was infallible? You said:



The Bible doesn't speak of 500 witnesses of Jesus as the Son of God. It states:


There were more than 500 witnesses of the resurrected Christ.

You oppose Jesus stating Scripture is infallible, therefore, what did Jesus mean when he stated, 'Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God"' (Matt 22:29).

Oz
Geisler struck me as well versed in Scripture but how much has he read outside the Bible? The Church Fathers for example?
If we had such indisputable evidence of Jesus being the Son of God, there would be no need for faith.
 
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