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Brutal Honesty

JohnDB

JohnDB

Member
So I'm killing time at the airport once again.

Master Chef comes to mind...
So does American Idol

The stars of these shows are brutally honest at times with telling how bad the people's performances are.

Just like yoga pants. (Some ladies just need to stop wearing them)

But again these things are what is considered beyond polite society.
Why?

White lies are good?
 
There are lies made because a person does not want to face the truth, or to be the person who says the truth. Then there are lies made to hide the harshness and be kind.

In my opinion being silent and saying nothing is better then lying. But when someone point blank asks you how they did, how they look. Or anything else relating to them, being encouraging so they don't give up while being honest is sometimes are hard lines to fit between.
 
JohnDB said:
So I'm killing time at the airport once again.

Master Chef comes to mind...
So does American Idol

The stars of these shows are brutally honest at times with telling how bad the people's performances are.

Just like yoga pants. (Some ladies just need to stop wearing them)

But again these things are what is considered beyond polite society.
Why?

White lies are good?
Click to expand...

White lies became good in miracle on 34th st...when santa was on trial and they said, what's worse a truth that brings a tear or a lie that brings a smile?...

Isnt that just oh so sweet and cozy? While we teach our kids to be liars don't forget to tell them that God sees little white lies to be as bad as being a serial murderer.

Robert Heinlein said in one of his books, "only a fool tells the bald truth on social occasions"...and I can agree with the premise, but not the implied solution, which is to lie. Better to be the quiet one than the social liar which everyone likes.

Let your yay be yay and your nay be nay..
 
Edward said:
Doesn't the ToS say that we can't be brutally honest with brothers & sisters if it offends them?

:lol :couch
Click to expand...
And that's why we have moderators...lol
(Not really)
But often I find that one person claims another is not a Christian...all the while claiming Christ as their Savior.
Who are we to judge someone else's servant?
 
Edward said:
Doesn't the ToS say that we can't be brutally honest with brothers & sisters if it offends them?

:lol :couch
Click to expand...
No. If it does I'm not aware of the section that says this. You would have to cite the section so I could read it for myself.

Now, there ARE some people who just want to be offensive and try to put a positive spin on it by saying they are "only being honest". I don't know if that's the kind of thing you are talking about, but too many people use "I'm just being honest" as an excuse to be rude jerks and try to make the good people look bad for confronting them about it. I think a lot depends on how something is presented in it's context and what the posters intent was. Sadly, that can be hard to discern at times, but all we can do is try our best.
 
Nothing wrong with being honest and everything wrong with being brutally honest. By that I mean being brutal.
I do think TV programmes like master chef and others would not get the ratings if they did not cause its audience to draw a deep breath in shock.

Obadiah is right and I agree that it's all about how it's presented. I also think before we try to be honest we need to determine what is causing this reaction. Is it because the person is doing something wrong or is just because what they are doing gets on our nerves. We need wisdom to know if we need to say something and if so how. Not all things are a mountain to die on and really do matter.

One very base example for me is that I love to watch football and I love watching it with my son (and I do invite others if they want to watch) Now the problem is when I watch football I like to watch it in quiet, my son loves to talk whilst watching and so do some others. Now that really irritates me beyond belief. Now if I was brutally honest I could say "It really pees me off when you talk through the match, shut your gob when the match is on" I'm being honest but just think how my friends and son would feel. I could be honest and say "I hope you don't mind but I like to watch the match without talking" my words aren't brutal but the effect would be the same. As I said not a mountain to die on.

I may have detracted from the thoughts of the OP but I think what I'm trying to say that we as beleivers need to be very careful when we want to honest. Why we feel the need to be and is it actually necessary.

Nothing wrong with being honest when it's called for and nothing is wrong when we do it in love.
 
Mom, a preachers wife, has to watch what she says .... every small church has the lady that is slightly what we termed 55 years ago "slow"... Well, this sister had pretty shoulder length hair natural waves and always neat.. She had it cut into the 'new' style we called it the "poodle" .. it did not fit her face she was a bit old for the style etc... She happily walks up to mom and point plank ask What do you think of my hair cut" ?
Mom did not lie to this lady nor was she brutal .. Mom said something like .. They did such a great job rolled it so nice in a few different ways .. etc...

I am the stinker PK of the family.. standing there listening , i used this as a challenge .. Mom you lied to her.. etc.. (respectfully said or else :blackeye)
no reba i did not lie they did do a good job .... I did not need to hurt her feelings ... Jesus would not hurt her feelings .. so we went into the should you tell someone her slip is showing etc i got the lecture of how to be polite while also being honest. You give your friend a hug whispering in her ear your slip is showing .. you dont shout HEY YOUR SLIP IS SHOWING across the church.. Who even owns slips today?
 
Wrg1405 said:
Nothing wrong with being honest and everything wrong with being brutally honest. By that I mean being brutal.
I do think TV programmes like master chef and others would not get the ratings if they did not cause its audience to draw a deep breath in shock.

Obadiah is right and I agree that it's all about how it's presented. I also think before we try to be honest we need to determine what is causing this reaction. Is it because the person is doing something wrong or is just because what they are doing gets on our nerves. We need wisdom to know if we need to say something and if so how. Not all things are a mountain to die on and really do matter.

One very base example for me is that I love to watch football and I love watching it with my son (and I do invite others if they want to watch) Now the problem is when I watch football I like to watch it in quiet, my son loves to talk whilst watching and so do some others. Now that really irritates me beyond belief. Now if I was brutally honest I could say "It really pees me off when you talk through the match, shut your gob when the match is on" I'm being honest but just think how my friends and son would feel. I could be honest and say "I hope you don't mind but I like to watch the match without talking" my words aren't brutal but the effect would be the same. As I said not a mountain to die on.

I may have detracted from the thoughts of the OP but I think what I'm trying to say that we as beleivers need to be very careful when we want to honest. Why we feel the need to be and is it actually necessary.

Nothing wrong with being honest when it's called for and nothing is wrong when we do it in love.
Click to expand...
You're not off track at all. Exactly what I want to discuss. As well as related discussions.
 
Obadiah said:
No. If it does I'm not aware of the section that says this. You would have to cite the section so I could read it for myself.

Now, there ARE some people who just want to be offensive and try to put a positive spin on it by saying they are "only being honest". I don't know if that's the kind of thing you are talking about, but too many people use "I'm just being honest" as an excuse to be rude jerks and try to make the good people look bad for confronting them about it. I think a lot depends on how something is presented in it's context and what the posters intent was. Sadly, that can be hard to discern at times, but all we can do is try our best.
Click to expand...

You all do a great job moderatin' this board.

Naw, nothing or noone in particular Brother. I was totally kiddin' around.
 
JohnDB said:
White lies are good?
Click to expand...
I'd rather have someone lie to me about what they think about the color of my shirt out of concern for my feelings (that's called 'love') than be brutally honest and share their hurtful opinion about it. I'm totally convinced God approves the former well over and above the latter. The well being of others (love) is the highest and greatest concern.
 
JohnDB said:
How about when discussing theology?

Brutal honesty is customarily used...

Is that good?
Click to expand...

There's two sides of being honest, in my opinion. One is "do you care about them enough to tell them or correct them." That takes effect when what your telling the other person really matters, and your not just stating your opinion about this or that, such as telling someone they need to pick up the slack or be more responsible; or it comes into play when you are helping them out, like telling someone privitely that their zipper is unzipped so they can fix it.

The other side of being honest is being sincere, and not lying. On this aspect if it's a small matter or something colored by your tastes and opinion only, then it might be ok with staying silent about the matter. Like Reba's example of her mom being polite and giving an answer that doesn't hurt another's feelings (still without lying.). Or Wrg1405 being silent about his preferences in watching football. It would still be ok to be honest, but in those cases it's not nessassery or a sign that you care about the other person and their well being.

If you take those ideals of honesty and apply them to theology then you'll find a lot of areas that it's ok to correct the other person, because it's for their own well being to know, and there at least some things that don't have to be addressed unless specifically asked. The parts that are our own understanding but does not effect our salvation, or how we should act. As a general rule when it comes to theology, if the theology says something differently in the bible it's better to correct it. Kindly though if that's possible. Sticking close to the bible on that one is the best approach in my opinion. Never forget to apply the teachings to ourselves though even when we are correcting or teaching another. Unless it's absolutely called for, we don't ever need to be brutal.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
I'd rather have someone lie to me about what they think about the color of my shirt out of concern for my feelings (that's called 'love') than be brutally honest and share their hurtful opinion about it. I'm totally convinced God approves the former well over and above the latter. The well being of others (love) is the highest and greatest concern.
Click to expand...
Not sure why somebody would comment on the colour of your shirt unless you asked them. If you ask them then you invite them to be honest, they then know that you trust them enough to be honest. If they know that then could be honest and say "That colour doesn't suit you" and I'm sure your feelings would not be hurt, or they could say "if you love it you wear it" I ask my wife all the time because my sense of dress code is terrible. I even take picture if I'm clothes shopping and send it to her and ask her what she thinks.

If someone comments on the colour of your shirt whose opinion you have never sought before then to me they have no cause to comment in the first place and I would think to myself why on earth are they commenting.

I know we are only talking about a shirt here and it's a point you are trying to make. Truth is colour of clothes, what music we like and other things we shouldn't be afraid to answer honestly when asked and vice versa.

An example may be if I'm driving a distance in the car with a friend I would want to put music on. I may say "I like Elvis do you? They may say no I don't so I wouldn't put it in on, yet they may say put it on I don't mind"

I would hope I would be one who says " not my cup of tea but put it on"

If don't want a truthful answer then don't ask the question.

I'm not sure God approves a lie to save someone's feelings. I may be stretching it bit far but if a person feels the need to lie to us then they may not be comfortable with us, and there must be a reason, if they are not comfortable with us then they may try to avoid us. Possible kind loving relationships will not mature where we can then have a relationship and be honest with each other on issues that really matter.

Building each other up in Christ.
 
A lie, even a white lie, in my opinion is a trap, a break in trust, and a sign of weakness. Either us too weak to face and speak the truth, our weakness to face the consequences of telling the truth, or our perception of weakness to the other person that would be hurt if we are blunt or truthful. In our weakness and theirs I think it is better to be silent then to lie.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
I'd rather have someone lie to me about what they think about the color of my shirt out of concern for my feelings (that's called 'love') than be brutally honest and share their hurtful opinion about it. I'm totally convinced God approves the former well over and above the latter. The well being of others (love) is the highest and greatest concern.
Click to expand...
Why not be honest but do so with kindness and love? My wife tells me about how I mismatch my clothing all the time. She doesn't have to be hurtful to do it.
 
WIP said:
Why not be honest but do so with kindness and love? My wife tells me about how I mismatch my clothing all the time. She doesn't have to be hurtful to do it.
Click to expand...
Opinions about dress are only opinions. Really has little to do with 'honesty.' It's much harder to view people apart from their veneer of cloth. That's an honest statement. It's also very easy to misjudge people by how they dress. For example millions of people will believe a guy dressed like this:
View attachment 9355

The man above with pomp and circumstances causes people to judge him an authority. That is a sight many have learned to distrust.

It's even harder to listen to a person dressed like this, and discount them based on their lack of pomp and circumstance:

View attachment 9356

God tends to hide His more valuable treasures under the mask of weak and beggarly elements of the world. This is a truth. There is an astounding amount of spiritual understandings hidden under, and therein.
 
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