But what do you think, ....yes you ....?

[humble soul]

I'm not talking about Trump.
I'm talking about free speech.
Do you hate him?
We're not supposed to hate anyone...

You are escalating this. So I'm going to stop right there.

 

[Serving Zion]

There's a good chance they actually created it and it was let loose. Maybe a conspiracy, maybe not

Even if that was the truth, it still is not fair to the majority of the 1,442,600,447 people in China and whatever number of other Chinese people outside of China. Such a conspiracy would not involve the majority of the Chinese people, so it isn't fair to blame the Chinese people for it.

I maybe don't agree with everything Jordan Peterson says, but I will listen to the link you gave when I am in the right environment. Why do I think that people should not be able to say just anything they want to say? Because the tongue sets on fire the course of nature, and it is set on fire by hell itself (James 3:6). It is the devil who is the father of lies, and those who speak his language are yielding their tongue as an instrument for hell to come upon the earth. There absolutely ought to be laws to stop that from happening.

 

[GodsGrace]

Even if that was the truth, it still is not fair to the majority of the 1,442,600,447 people in China and whatever number of other Chinese people outside of China. Such a conspiracy would not involve the majority of the Chinese people, so it isn't fair to blame the Chinese people for it.

I maybe don't agree with everything Jordan Peterson says, but I will listen to the link you gave when I am in the right environment. Why do I think that people should not be able to say just anything they want to say? Because the tongue sets on fire the course of nature, and it is set on fire by hell itself (James 3:6). It is the devil who is the father of lies, and those who speak his language are yielding their tongue as an instrument for hell to come upon the earth. There absolutely ought to be laws to stop that from happening.

Some things said are not lies SZ.
And who is speaking against the Chinese people?
It's the Chinese GOVERNMENT that is being spoken of --- in the case of COVID.

Did they advise the world immediately about the virus?
NO.
They knew back in Oct of 2019 that there was a problem.
They tried (they is the govt of China) to keep it hidden till they couldn't anymore.
By then it had come to Northern Italy and since it was not known....it killed many persons (that could have not died)
up there and throughout the world.

I'm rather upset with the Chinese govt.
1. Because I don't know if they actually created this virus.
2. Because they didn't let us know about it.

Now, what all this has to do with free speech, I don't know.
Would you like to start a thread on free speech?
It would be a good idea.
But I have to log off now.
(I said that an hour ago too!)

BTW,,,Italians were called guineas when I entered the U.S. in the year 1951.
When I got older, I realized this was a terrible thing to say.
Was I happy?
No.
Did they have the right to call me that?
Yes.
Was it a civilized way of behaving?
No.
Should we imprison all the uncivilized persons living in our society?

 

[Luminous_Rose]

[ACMP=reminder]
Focus on reconciliation over PM instead of personal remarks being made on the thread. Thank you.

Please refer to the ToS, specifically in this case 1.3, which states: Use self control and focus on reconciliation when discussing differences. Address the issue, not the person. Do not make derogatory personal remarks or you will be removed from the thread.
[/ACMP]

 

[Serving Zion]

Some things said are not lies SZ.
And who is speaking against the Chinese people?
It's the Chinese GOVERNMENT that is being spoken of --- in the case of COVID.

See, that is not so clear. When you say "Chinese", it identifies an entire race of people. Still, why can you not just use the proper name?

I'm rather upset with the Chinese govt.
1. Because I don't know if they actually created this virus.
2. Because they didn't let us know about it.

1. Suspicion is not healthy and naturally shows that you are distrusting without proof. Afterall, God has seen everything that goes on behind closed doors and in everyone's heart. It is He that has the right to judge when we are without evidence.
2. Do you not understand why? Look at the way everyone is blaming them for it and even suspecting them of doing it on purpose. That's why it should not be called the Chinese Virus. It is aggravating and it sets the course of nature on fire by hell itself (James 3:6). How can anyone ever be expected to confess when they know they're going to get called names and blamed? That's the work of hell, and we are meant to be wise to those devices (2 Corinthians 2:11).

 

[for_his_glory]

Just sitting here reading all of this and I wasn't going to reply until these scriptures came to mind when wondering started talking about free speech. A friendly reminded was posted about returning back to the OP, but being ignored. I just want to point out that we have liberty, but never allow what you say become a stumbling block to another who has very little understanding.


Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Gal 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

James 3:10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

 

[humble soul]

Free speech is an illusion in my opinion. Because we always have to consider our audience.
This forum is owned by stove bolts. He can set any rules he likes. He chooses to be very flexible and I applaud him for that. But we can't say whatever we like on here anyway. Otherwise we will be asked to leave.

 

[GodsGrace]

Just sitting here reading all of this and I wasn't going to reply until these scriptures came to mind when wondering started talking about free speech. A friendly reminded was posted about returning back to the OP, but being ignored. I just want to point out that we have liberty, but never allow what you say become a stumbling block to another who has very little understanding.


Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Gal 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

James 3:10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Hi FHG,,,
I thought the O.P. WAS about free speech and actually speaking what we are thinking.
Maybe not.

Anyway, yes, I agree with all of the above.
The problem is that not everyone is Christian.
But I think I should not say too much more and end it here.

 

[GodsGrace]

See, that is not so clear. When you say "Chinese", it identifies an entire race of people. Still, why can you not just use the proper name?

I can use the name I wish t o use.
If you wish to discuss this further, please begin a thread as I've suggested.
It seems the moderators feel this is not what the O.P. is about.

1. Suspicion is not healthy and naturally shows that you are distrusting without proof. Afterall, God has seen everything that goes on behind closed doors and in everyone's heart. It is He that has the right to judge when we are without evidence.
2. Do you not understand why? Look at the way everyone is blaming them for it and even suspecting them of doing it on purpose. That's why it should not be called the Chinese Virus. It is aggravating and it sets the course of nature on fire by hell itself (James 3:6). How can anyone ever be expected to confess when they know they're going to get called names and blamed? That's the work of hell, and we are meant to be wise to those devices (2 Corinthians 2:11).

What am I suspicious of??
The whole world knows this virus began in China and in a lab.
How is this distrusting when I'm basing my statements on FACTS?
How are we without evidence?

If everyone is blaming them...it is correct.
They should be blamed. They should have alerted the world immediately.
If it's aggravating, it's too bad....
Maybe we could find a safe space for them?

And you think they should not have "confessed"?

I think our conversation ends here because the divide is too deep.
Please start a thread if you wish to discuss this further.

 

[Serving Zion]

I think our conversation ends here because the divide is too deep.

I agree with this, but I'll just let it be. There is nothing that I need to prove and I've said enough for anyone who deserves to know, to know why I think I've said enough.

 

[Serving Zion]

Are you the one that agrees with Jordan Peterson? Can't remember.
Maybe you could listen to his reasons why HE doesn't care for speech control.
I agree with him.

I call it COVID.
I don't care if someone calls it the Chinese Virus. I don't think they should be fined for it.
There's a good chance they actually created it and it was let loose. Maybe a conspiracy, maybe not...
but it DID originate in a lab - or, at least, escape from a lab.
The lab was in CHINA.
So it would be called the China Virus.
I'm not going to take time to think up other things that are called by the originating place...
I mentioned the Spanish Flu.
So did the U.S. hate the Spanish because the soldiers brought it back to the U.S.
No. It was just a name.
Chinese Virus
Chinese food
what's the difference?

It's called free speech SZ.
Don't let anyone take away your free speech.

Just in case it wasn't you...

I just watched this through about three times and dialled back a couple of times. He speaks very fast and says things with high precision, and as best I can make out of what he said, I think it's all fairly well agreeable.

If it was me I'd have probably honed on the distinction between biological gender and the fact that language has a linguistic function to describe the difference between male and female, and just as I said before that to say that there is no difference between male and female is not freedom of speech but abuse of speech.

It isn't as though I would refuse to offer someone the respect of choosing to be called by their preferred identity, but rather that where it is clear that no such sensitivities exist, it is plain simple and logical to say that male is male and female is female.

Instead I am more interested in understanding an individual's sensitivities and the reasons they would feel more comfortable to be regarded as a gender that isn't consistent with their biological gender and the reason for that is almost always going to be because of some trauma associated with having been made to feel inferior for who they are by nature, and having been forced to believe that their character fits a stereotype that is at odds with what the stereotype for their biological gender should be. That is the effect of using pride to provoke a person into disbanding from the fullness of appreciation for who God has made them to be, and it always happens in the hands of cruel and unloving people.

It's the ones who put them down and who like to condemn them that pushes them into a mode of defensiveness where they often go to extremes to exaggerate their sense of pride in who they are, even mutilating their bodies and dressing up in demeaning costumes. I far rather that they are comfortable to know why God has made them different (and even insofaras maybe they aren't so different but just not so closed off as some people choose to get).

So that is where my heart is and therefore where my words come from for such matters. The same compassion compels me to speak in support of those who rightly do not deserve to be denigrated by a racist slur that makes out that their people are responsible for so much grief and loss.