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[nonbelieverforums]

Is the the war of Ezekiel 38–39 Gog/Magog symbolic literal ?

Literal and spiritual,,,but yes there will literally be a war....

Good luck with that one on this site Nightmare.. I think I am the only person on this website who believes Ezekiel 38 will happen in the modern day. The Preterists believe this conflict happend already in the first century. Yet they won't tell me where the bodies of 200 million men that took seven months to bury are.

The argument I have had with them already is that based on the weaponry and that the armies crossed the River on horse back this proves at first centruy war.

 

[Benoni]

Do me a favor seeing you have such vast knowledge of God's Word; how about showing me how the Book of Revelation is literal as you claim; seeing I used "God's Word" not my opinion to show you it is symbolic and spiritual.

Is the the war of Ezekiel 38–39 Gog/Magog symbolic literal ?

Literal and spiritual,,,but yes there will literally be a war....

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Benoni
John was in spirit on the Lord’s Day, no where does it say He was literal or prophetic on the Lords day; or partially literal or prophetic on the Lords day. It say he was in spirit, and seeing the Book of Revelation is a spiritual Book about the revelation or the unveiling of Jesus Christ

Though I do not completely spiritualize the book of Revelation to the degree that you do (because I believe there is a literal aspect as well as the spiritual that we can't ignore), and I feel you are mistaken concerning a future return of Christ; I find your spiritual approach to God's Word very refreshing. Though I am selective when taking in some of your writings, there are some good reminders concerning living in the Spirit within them, especially when discussion becomes to "carnal". Nice balance.

 

[Benoni]

Though I do not completely spiritualize the book of Revelation to the degree that you do (because I believe there is a literal aspect as well as the spiritual that we can't ignore), and I feel you are mistaken concerning a future return of Christ; I find your spiritual approach to God's Word very refreshing. Though I am selective when taking in some of your writings, there are some good reminders concerning living in the Spirit within them, especially when discussion becomes to "carnal". Nice balance.

I do not mean to make such a hard case but when you’re dealing with so many who completely ignore scripture; it seems to be the only route to cut though the mustard. I do believe the Book of Revelation is totally spiritual; does not mean we have a total understanding of all of these deep spiritual symbolisms; but one thing is very clear when I comes to spiritual matters it you need spiritual eyes to see, and ears to hear. Most have religious eyes and only follow what they have been taught.

 

[whirlwind]

Is the the war of Ezekiel 38–39 Gog/Magog symbolic literal ?

Literal and spiritual,,,but yes there will literally be a war....

Good luck with that one on this site Nightmare.. I think I am the only person on this website who believes Ezekiel 38 will happen in the modern day. The Preterists believe this conflict happend already in the first century. Yet they won't tell me where the bodies of 200 million men that took seven months to bury are.

The argument I have had with them already is that based on the weaponry and that the armies crossed the River on horse back this proves at first centruy war.

There are two Gog/Magog references...both future. The first, in Ezekiel, I too see as a literal battle that will happen. The second Gog/Magog is a gathering much as Armageddon. The battle of Armageddon I now see as simply a gathering of Satan's forces, a spiritual battle and that is ongoing. It just means he is winning over converts all the way until the end of this age and then...."the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air." Not much of a battle!

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Benoni
I do not mean to make such a hard case but when you’re dealing with so many who completely ignore scripture; it seems to be the only route to cut though the mustard. I do believe the Book of Revelation is totally spiritual; does not mean we have a total understanding of all of these deep spiritual symbolisms; but one thing is very clear when I comes to spiritual matters it you need spiritual eyes to see, and ears to hear. Most have religious eyes and only follow what they have been taught.

I don't think anyone would classify you as a "hard case". ;) I think many, like myself, find a completely spiritual interpretation to be a breath of fresh air; though we might not agree. I read the thread you are probably referring to, and I'd say you were justified in your indignation in that particular case. :D

 

[nonbelieverforums]

Do me a favor seeing you have such vast knowledge of God's Word; how about showing me how the Book of Revelation is literal as you claim; seeing I used "God's Word" not my opinion to show you it is symbolic and spiritual.

I don't have a vast knowledge scripture I'm just a student of prophecy. Hense why I am asking questions about the Universalist view. I am not really challenging you yet at least. Just want to know more about what is literal and what is symbolic.

I am of the futurist view so obviously I take scripture as it relates to endtimes and apply it to the modern day. So a good chunk of my scripture reading is obviously literal.

 

[Vic C.]

Being a universalist doesn't guarantee they all will have the same view on eschatology. Universalism is a salvation issue; it's the belief that all will be reconciled to God eventually (which can't be discussed at length here). Some believe in pre trib, some believe in a type of pre wrath, some no trib at all, etc.

 

[Benoni]

I see.

Many who are religious also approach God’s Word thought prophecy; it does not work either; God’s Word it is spiritual.

I get pretty blunt and hard headed with many of these brothers because they carnalize scripture; bring God’s Word down to their level instead of reaching to what God’s Word is truly saying.

I do not see an end time view as many doom and gloom religious types. The Lake of fire is good news to all men, not evil.

The religious people who moderate these post do not appreciate the Universal message and delete whole threads or post if I say something that is contrary to their belief system which is pretty sad esspecially when you are quoting God's Word.

I pretty much believe totally contrary to orthodox Christianity.

The Spiritual Word has to do with and how God reveals His Word to you, then you learn latter there are thousands of like mind because God’ Spirit reveals His truth not religion. I am very anti religion when it comes to Bible interpretation for God’s Spirit speaks to people not systems.

If you want to email me we can talk more freely.

Do me a favor seeing you have such vast knowledge of God's Word; how about showing me how the Book of Revelation is literal as you claim; seeing I used "God's Word" not my opinion to show you it is symbolic and spiritual.

I don't have a vast knowledge scripture I'm just a student of prophecy. Hense why I am asking questions about the Universalist view. I am not really challenging you yet at least. Just want to know more about what is literal and what is symbolic.

I am of the futurist view so obviously I take scripture as it relates to endtimes and apply it to the modern day. So a good chunk of my scripture reading is obviously literal.

 

[nonbelieverforums]

Benoni

Is there main website for this view kind of like that the Preterists have ?? Just want to have a read.

 

[nonbelieverforums]

Whirlwind I'm sorry but it would seem we have jumped off topic from your original post. I think that might have been my doing.

So sorry ...
:ohwell

 

[Benoni]

Being a Christian Universalist does guarantee we all will have the same view on eschatology with minor changes in understanding. I am a monotheist, but a good friend of mine is a Trinitarian.

There is Unitarian Universalist which something I am totally contrary too; and are not spiritual believers.

I do not believe in the Tribulation Period as most teach; I am surprised you can even discuss the belief that all will be reconciled to God eventually; because I lost a whole thread I labeled, “How Much Sand Can a Dump Truck Holdâ€Â, just a few weeks ago

Being a universalist doesn't guarantee they all will have the same view on eschatology. Universalism is a salvation issue; it's the belief that all will be reconciled to God eventually (which can't be discussed at length here). Some believe in pre trib, some believe in a type of pre wrath, some no trib at all, etc

 

[whirlwind]

Whirlwind I'm sorry but it would seem we have jumped off topic from your original post. I think that might have been my doing.

So sorry ...
:ohwell

It doesn't bother me one little bit....carry on.

 

[Vic C.]

The religious people who moderate these post do not appreciate the Universal message and delete whole threads or post if I say something that is contrary to their belief system which is pretty sad esspecially when you are quoting God's Word.

If bluntness is a trait you admire that I have to be honest; those who over-spiritulize scripture do great harm to much of it's clear and literal meaning. God is not the author of confusion, but independent, personal spiritual interpretations cause much confusion indeed. How easy it is for one to put forth an interpretation and then say they were inspired by the Spirit? Very easy, some of the most off the wall teachings I've seen on these pages come from these so-called inspired people.

It's one thing to quote God's word but when a totally irrelevant interpretation is attached to the passage, one makes the Word null and void. When I see people discarding 2,000 years of orthodox and reformed Christian doctrine that passed the test of time and scrutiny, only to be led away by some carnal tickling of one's ear, I see red flags and want to run for cover, lest I be led astray too.

Now, as for UR, there are two main reasons why it is frowned upon here:

One, it became a free for all once here, when UR was debated. We became each other's punching bags and honestly, I saw a total lack of spiritual discernment from the UR proponents, some of it rubbing off on our other members. I have been called the worst of names by some of the URists which was in no way Christlike. So, it was decided that UR can only be discussed in the One on One subforum.

Two, it's heresy. Portions of Scripture can be ripped out of context to mean a whole bunch of things and there's an over reliance on Hebrew and Greek concordance and lexicons by those who misuse it to support UR. All of a sudden God doesn't really mean what HE says; He means something else. More "Author of confusion" stuff. When one honestly looks at the whole of God's word it's just not seen in scripture.

Now, sorry to disrupt your thread WW.

Carry on and back on topic.

 

[Benoni]

, bluntness is a trait you admire that I have to be honest; those who over-spiritulize scripture do great harm to much of it's clear and literal meaning. God is not the author of confusion, but independent, personal spiritual interpretations cause much confusion indeed. How easy it is for one to put forth an interpretaton ion and then say they were inspired by the Spirit? Very easy, some of the most off the wall teachings I've seen on these pages come from these so-called inspired people.

No bluntness is my personality, my carnal nature what ever you want to call it; when someone totally regards God’s Word because their dogma is their god, their preconceived bias is their god, their religion is their god; I am very blunt to bring down that god with God’s Word.

To much of your so called "clear and literal meaning" has been influenced by man, and religious man is far to close minded to search out a matter; be it hell or the word freewill which I have debated many times.

Over spiritualize is defiantly a sin especially when so many of my religious brothers over carnalize God’s Word, literalize God’s Word.

Your right God is not the author the of confusion, but religion is just read these post.

I do not believe in “independent, personal spiritual interpretationsâ€Â, I believe in the spirit of truth to lead me in to all truth not man and his ten thousand religions. Who leads you into truth? You are wrong off the wall teachings come from man not God’s Spirit; problem with religion is they have given up on God’s spirit and let mans lead them; they could care less what God’s Spirit has to say.

I need to go swimming with my Grandchildren be back later

 

[nonbelieverforums]

Benoni (REPOSTED)

Is there main website for this view kind of like that the Preterists have ?? Just want to have a read.

 

[Benoni]

Check out J Preston Eby

Benoni (REPOSTED)

Is there main website for this view kind of like that the Preterists have ?? Just want to have a read.

 

[Benoni]

It's one thing to quote God's word but when a totally irrelevant interpretation is attached to the passage, one makes the Word null and void. When I see people discarding 2,000 years of orthodox and reformed Christian doctrine that passed the test of time and scrutiny, only to be led away by some carnal tickling of one's ear, I see red flags and want to run for cover, lest I be led astray too.

Now, as for UR, there are two main reasons why it is frowned upon here:

One, it became a free for all once here, when UR was debated. We became each other's punching bags and honestly, I saw a total lack of spiritual discernment from the UR proponents, some of it rubbing off on our other members. I have been called the worst of names by some of the URists which was in no way Christlike. So, it was decided that UR can only be discussed in the One on One subforum.

Two, it's heresy. Portions of Scripture can be ripped out of context to mean a whole bunch of things and there's an over reliance on Hebrew and Greek concordance and lexicons by those who misuse it to support UR. All of a sudden God doesn't really mean what HE says; He means something else. More "Author of confusion" stuff. When one honestly looks at the whole of God's word it's just not seen in scripture.

Now, sorry to disrupt your thread WW.

Carry on and back on topic.

What does “UR†mean? I can reverse your claim by your so called orthodox Christian for I too have been called many unbelievable names by these so called men of faith. Yes it becomes a free for all when people are so minded they reject scripture over and over and then point their finger at like we are not quoting God’s Word. No where does it say orthodoxy and established doctrine are the correct avenue for truth; if this was the case then the Jews would of never rejected Jesus for they too followed orthodoxy. There are far too many premeditated errors in establish translations to ignore and the vast majority of these errors have to do with twisting God’s Word to condemn and not to save.

You did not disturb anything.

Thank You
George