Call No Man Father

[Rodger]

Cont.

A Positive Outlook

Having dispatched some of the objections to Mary’s perpetual virginity, perhaps some positive reasons for faith would be in order. In my book Behold Your Mother: A Biblical and Historical Defense of the Marian Doctrines, I give eight positive reasons, but for brevity’s sake, we will briefly consider three:

1. In Luke 1:34, when the angel Gabriel told Mary that she was chosen to be the mother of the Messiah, she asked the question, literally translated from the Greek, “How shall this be, since I know not man?” This question makes no sense unless Mary had a vow of virginity.

When we consider Mary and Joseph were already “espoused,” according to verse 27 of this same chapter, we understand Mary and Joseph to then have had what would be akin to a ratified marriage in the New Covenant. They were married! That would mean St. Joseph would have had the right to the marriage bed at that point. Normally, after the espousal the husband would prepare a home for his new bride and then come and receive her into his home where the union would be consummated. This is precisely why St. Joseph intended to “divorce her quietly” (Matt. 1:19) when he discovered she was pregnant.

This background is significant, because a newly married woman would not ask the question, “How shall this be?” She would know! Unless, of course, that woman had a vow of virginity! Mary believed the message but wanted to know how this was going to be accomplished. This indicates she was not planning on the normal course of events for her future with St. Joseph.

2. In John 19:26, Jesus gave his mother to the care of St. John even though by law the next eldest sibling would have the responsibility to care for her. It is unthinkable to believe that Jesus would take his mother away from his family in disobedience to the law.

Some will claim Jesus did this because his brothers and sisters were not there. They had left him. Thus, Jesus committed his mother to St. John, who was faithful and present at the foot of the cross.

This claim reveals a low and unbiblical Christology. As St. John tells us, Jesus “knew all men” (John 2:25). If St. James were his blood brother, Jesus would have known he would be faithful along with his “brother” Jude. The fact is, Jesus had no brothers and sisters, so he had the responsibility, on a human level, to take care of his mother.

3. Mary is depicted as the spouse of the Holy Spirit in Scripture. When Mary asked the angel how she was going to conceive a child in Luke 1:34, the angel responded:

The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.

This is nuptial language hearkening back to Ruth 3:8, where Ruth said to Boaz “spread your skirt over me” when she revealed to him his duty to marry her according to the law of Deuteronomy 25. When Mary then came up pregnant, St. Joseph would have been required to divorce her, because she would then belong to another (see Deuteronomy 24:1-4, Jeremiah 3:1). When St. Joseph found out that “the other” was the Holy Spirit, the idea of St. Joseph having conjugal relations with Mary would not have been a consideration for a “just man” like St. Joseph.

One Final Thought

An obvious question remains: Why did St. Joseph then “take [Mary] his wife,” according to Matthew 1:24, if she belonged to the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit is Mary’s spouse, but St. Joseph was her spouse and protector on Earth. This is not a contradiction. All Christians have a nuptial relationship with our Lord. The Church is, after all, “the bride of Christ.” But in the case of Mary and Joseph, Joseph was essential in the life of Mary, his spouse, for at least two obvious reasons. First, as St. Matthew points out in his genealogy in chapter 1, St. Joseph was in line to be a successor of David as King of Israel. Thus, if Jesus was to be the true “son of David” and king of Israel (see II Samuel 7:14; Hebrews 1:5; Revelation 19:16, 22:16), he needed to be the son of St. Joseph. As the only son of St. Joseph, even though adopted, he would have been in line for the throne.

Also, in a culture that did not take kindly to espoused women becoming pregnant by someone other than their spouse, Mary would have been in mortal danger. Thus, St. Joseph became Mary’s earthly spouse and protector as well as the protector of the child Jesus.

Thks

The one and only reason this is posted is to continue the belief that Mary was the product of an Immaculate conception and remain a Pertetual virgin.

I do not deal in religions or opinions or the thoughts of men. I deal only with the Word of God and in that Word, there is absolulty ZERO on Mary being an Immacualte conception product or staying a virgin the rest of her life. That is wholly a Catholic concept and has NO support in the Scriptures.

Some Roman Catholics as has been seen right here, claim that these “brothers” were actually Jesus’ cousins. However, in each instance, the specific Greek word for “brother” is used. While the word can refer to other relatives, its normal and literal meaning is a physical brother. There was a Greek word for “cousin,” and it was not used. Further, if they were Jesus’ cousins, why would they so often be described as being with Mary, Jesus’ mother? There is nothing in the context of His mother and brothers coming to see Him that even hints that they were anyone other than His literal, blood-related, half-brothers.

A second Roman Catholic argument is that Jesus’ brothers and sisters were the children of Joseph from a previous marriage. An entire theory of Joseph’s being significantly older than Mary, having been previously married, having multiple children, and then being widowed before marrying Mary is invented without any biblical basis. The problem with this is that the Bible does not even hint that Joseph was married or had children before he married Mary. If Joseph had at least six children before he married Mary, why are they not mentioned in Joseph and Mary’s trip to Bethlehem (Luke 2:4-7) or their trip to Egypt (Matthew 2:13-15) or their trip back to Nazareth (Matthew 2:20-23)?

There is no biblical reason to believe that these siblings are anything other than the actual children of Joseph and Mary. Those who oppose the idea that Jesus had half-brothers and half-sisters do so, not from a reading of Scripture, but from a preconceived concept of the perpetual virginity of Mary, which is itself clearly unbiblical: “But he [Joseph] had no union with her [Mary] until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus” (Matthew 1:25). Jesus had half-siblings, half-brothers and half-sisters, who were the children of Joseph and Mary. That is the clear and unambiguous teaching of God’s Word.

 

[GodsGrace]

ALL of them.

If we break one command of God we have broken all of them.

Past present and future?
Do we ask forgiveness?

There are those that claim we don't even need to ask forgiveness after salvation.
This is really what I was asking.

Of course God forgives us all our sins.
Except the refusal to accept His salvation...
Which some refer to as blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

No we do not.

The Catholic church does NOT teach "The CC teaches that we are saved by faith alone."

The RCC teaches faith in Christ PLUS the Church and baptism.

You said.........."Faith will produce fruit.."

That is correct and that is what the 1/2 brother of Jesus says in 2:26........
"“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also” .

James is not saying that our works make us righteous before God but that real saving faith is demonstrated by good works. Works are not the cause of salvation; works are the evidence of salvation.

You said..........
"There are those on this very forum who state that all that is necessary is belief in Jesus and we will be saved.
No!
Because they mean that nothing else is ever necessary....no good works are necessary...a person could continue in their life as before and still be saved."

No sir that is not the case. IF that is true then YOU will have to remove Ephesians 2:8-9 from your Bible as it says the exact opposite!

You said........."Faith save"..............YES, you are correct! ONLY faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

You said........"then comes santification"....Yes you are correct.

Justification then comes sanctification and then glorification. Sanctification is the process of being set aside to be used by God for His purposes.

So where exactly is the disagreement?

And could you post some source that states that the CC does NOT teach salvation by faith alone.

IOW, could you post an official rendering of what the CC states will save a person.

Thanks.

 

[Hopeful 2]

James is not saying that our works make us righteous before God but that real saving faith is demonstrated by good works. Works are not the cause of salvation; works are the evidence of salvation.

What are evil works, (sin), evidence of, if righteous works are the evidence of salvation ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

You said..........
"Not one of your kindly provided citings say anything but that Jesus had brothers and sisters."

I do not know how to respond to that.

I was under the impression that you thought Jesus only had 1/2 brothers and sisters.
My mistake...

The only reason you do not understand those LITERAL words of Scripture is because you are a Catholic and you deny the written Word of God.

I am an ex-catholic.

You see my friend, those LITERAL Scriptures destroy the Catholic false teaching of the Immacualte conception of Mary and YOU as a Catholic must reject them. It is just that simple.

Agreed.

 

[Rodger]

I was under the impression that you thought Jesus only had 1/2 brothers and sisters.
My mistake...

I am an ex-catholic.

Agreed.

Yes sir.........that is exactly what i have stated. ONE HALF.

 

[Rodger]

What are evil works, (sin), evidence of, if righteous works are the evidence of salvation ?

That depends on what view you are talking about. IMHO thereis NO difference.

A world view of Evil is often seen as a violation of moral principles and standards that are commonly held in a particular society framework. On the other hand, Sin is a concept found in religious and moral frameworks, particularly within Christianity.

Some will tell you that A key difference between sin and evil is that sin is always personal, whereas evil is often impersonal. Sins are the acts of men and have no existence apart from human action, creaturely action, in transgression of the law of God.

 

[Rodger]

So where exactly is the disagreement?

And could you post some source that states that the CC does NOT teach salvation by faith alone.

IOW, could you post an official rendering of what the CC states will save a person.

Thanks.

I did not know that "we" were in disagreement.

Source...........https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/arent-we-saved-by-faith-alone

The Roman Catholic Church in the Catholic Catechism teaches that we can merit grace necessary for salvation and that, after first having faith, we attain eternal life by works, baptism, and keeping the commandments.

1. CCC 2010, “…Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life.”
2. CCC 2027, “Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods.”
3. CCC 2068, “The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: “The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments.”

This obviously faulty teaching in the CCC is hugely problematic since it contradicts Scripture.
Source: https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/who-can-be-saved-0

 

[Rodger]

Past present and future?
Do we ask forgiveness?

There are those that claim we don't even need to ask forgiveness after salvation.
This is really what I was asking.

Of course God forgives us all our sins.
Except the refusal to accept His salvation...
Which some refer to as blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

YES.
YES.

Now, we only need to ask ONE time to be forgiven of our sins to be saved.

I hope that you understand that our Salvation is not a matter of believers trying to confess and repent from every sin they commit before they die. Salvation is not based on whether a Christian has confessed and repented of every sin.

IMHO though, Yes, we should confess our sins to God as soon as we are aware that we have been convicted of sin and we need to confess that sin. However, we do not always need to be asking God for forgiveness. When we place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, all of our sins are forgiven. That includes past, present, and future, big or small. Believers do not have to keep asking for forgiveness or repenting in order to have their sins forgiven. Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins, and when they are forgiven, they are all forgiven

 

[Rodger]

Which ones?

ALL of them.

 

[GodsGrace]

I did not know that "we" were in disagreement.

Source...........https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/arent-we-saved-by-faith-alone

The Roman Catholic Church in the Catholic Catechism teaches that we can merit grace necessary for salvation and that, after first having faith, we attain eternal life by works, baptism, and keeping the commandments.

1. CCC 2010, “…Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life.”
2. CCC 2027, “Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods.”
3. CCC 2068, “The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: “The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments.”

This obviously faulty teaching in the CCC is hugely problematic since it contradicts Scripture.
Source: https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/who-can-be-saved-0

How does the CCC contradict scripture??
I'll get to your paragraphs, but first let's find out what the CC teaches about faith and salvation:

CCC 161-163
161 Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation.42 "Since "without faith it is impossible to please (God) " and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life 'But he who endures to the end.'"]

Perseverance in faith

162 Faith is an entirely free gift that God makes to man. We can lose this priceless gift, as St. Paul indicated to St. Timothy: "Wage the good warfare, holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith."44 To live, grow and persevere in the faith until the end we must nourish it with the word of God; we must beg the Lord to increase our faith;45 it must be "working through charity," abounding in hope, and rooted in the faith of the Church.46

Faith - the beginning of eternal life

163 Faith makes us taste in advance the light of the beatific vision, the goal of our journey here below. Then we shall see God "face to face", "as he is".47 So faith is already the beginning of eternal life:
When we contemplate the blessings of faith even now, as if gazing at a reflection in a mirror, it is as if we already possessed the wonderful things which our faith assures us we shall one day enjoy.48


We can see from reading the above that a person must have faith in order to be saved.
He must believe in Jesus.
He must endure till the end.
Till the end....because we must be saved at the time of our death and not only right now.

Works are not mentioned....unless, of course, you believe baptism is a work - in which case it must be shown from scripture.

Now your paragraphs:

• CCC 2010, “…Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life.”

We protestants do believe that God gives us the grace necessary at any given time.
If we use it, we get more, if we do not use it, grace, in that matter, will not increase.

Merit: We all will merit heaven or not merit heaven.
We are moved by the Holy Spirit....many verses confirming this.
It's the Holy Spirit working in us.
Merit means to deserve.
We merit/deserve heaven because we are doing the will of our Father.
Many on these forums state that we need do NOTHING but believe.
This is not taught in the NT.
Jesus and all the writers exhort us to a life of good works.
But good works done with FAITH.

Luke 6:46 WHY DO Y OU CALL ME LORD LORD BUT DO NOT AS I SAY.

John 5:28 ALL WILL ARISE FROM THE DEAD....THOSE WHO DID GOOD DEEDS TO A LIFE OF RESURRECTON, THOSE WHO DID EVIL DEEDS TO JUDGMENT.

Matthew 7:23 NOT EVERYONE WHO SAYS LORD, LORD WILL ENTER INTO HEAVEN....BUT HE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER.

Matthew 7:24 ANYONE WHO HEARS THESE WORDS OF MINE AND ACTS OF THEM IS COMPARED TO A WISE MAN.

Matthew 16: 24 IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ME, TAKE UP YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW ME.

James 1:22 BE NOT ONLY HEARERS OF THE WORD BUT DOERS...DO NOT DECEIVE YOURSELF.

• CCC 2027, “Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods.”

Answered above.

Do you believe it's necessary to OBEY GOD?

• CCC 2068, “The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: “The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments.”

Are we allowed to break the 10 Commandments?
Were they written on stone so we could arbitrarily decide they're not important?
Scripture teaches that the 10 Commandments are for all time.

John 14:15 IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.



Are we not to be baptrized?

Mark 16:16 HE WHO BELIEVES AND IS BAPTIZED WILL BE SAVED.

Matthew 28:19 JESUS TOLD THE APOSTLES TO GO AND TEACH AND BAPTIZE IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Acts 2:38 REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED ALL OF YOU FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS.


Seems to me that it's not the CCC that is not scriptural.
But some who take the teachings of the NT very loosely and without the proper respect for God.

 

[GodsGrace]

YES.
YES.

Now, we only need to ask ONE time to be forgiven of our sins to be saved.

I hope that you understand that our Salvation is not a matter of believers trying to confess and repent from every sin they commit before they die. Salvation is not based on whether a Christian has confessed and repented of every sin.

IMHO though, Yes, we should confess our sins to God as soon as we are aware that we have been convicted of sin and we need to confess that sin. However, we do not always need to be asking God for forgiveness. When we place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, all of our sins are forgiven. That includes past, present, and future, big or small. Believers do not have to keep asking for forgiveness or repenting in order to have their sins forgiven. Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins, and when they are forgiven, they are all forgiven

John, an Apostle of Jesus and taught by HIM,
stated in 1 John 1 that we are to ask forgiveness of our sins.

If you don't care to follow his directions, that is a choice you must make for yourself.

1 John 1:8-10
8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

​

 

[GodsGrace]

ALL of them.

Post some scripture please.
Stating that it is not necessary to ask forgiveness when we sin.
Which, apparently, is what you believe.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes sir.........that is exactly what i have stated. ONE HALF.

...and that HALF came from Joseph, and not God.

 

[Hopeful 2]

That depends on what view you are talking about. IMHO thereis NO difference.

A world view of Evil is often seen as a violation of moral principles and standards that are commonly held in a particular society framework. On the other hand, Sin is a concept found in religious and moral frameworks, particularly within Christianity.

Some will tell you that A key difference between sin and evil is that sin is always personal, whereas evil is often impersonal. Sins are the acts of men and have no existence apart from human action, creaturely action, in transgression of the law of God.

Should I ask again ?
Or will you just side-track it again ?

In post 724, you wrote..."Works are not the cause of salvation; works are the evidence of salvation."
I asked, "What are evil works, (sin), evidence of, if righteous works are the evidence of salvation ?"

 

[Rodger]

Should I ask again ?
Or will you just side-track it again ?

In post 724, you wrote..."Works are not the cause of salvation; works are the evidence of salvation."
I asked, "What are evil works, (sin), evidence of, if righteous works are the evidence of salvation ?"

I answered that question my friend.

I posted.......
"
That depends on what view you are talking about. IMHO thereis NO difference.

A world view of Evil is often seen as a violation of moral principles and standards that are commonly held in a particular society framework. On the other hand, Sin is a concept found in religious and moral frameworks, particularly within Christianity.

Some will tell you that A key difference between sin and evil is that sin is always personal, whereas evil is often impersonal. Sins are the acts of men and have no existence apart from human action, creaturely action, in transgression of the law of God.

 

[Rodger]

...and that HALF came from Joseph, and not God.

That is exactly what I stated. Do you read what I post???????

 

[Rodger]

Post some scripture please.
Stating that it is not necessary to ask forgiveness when we sin.
Which, apparently, is what you believe.

It must be a virus on the computer scree.
It seems that many people here have a virus of saying what others do not say.

In post #729 I said..........
"IMHO though, Yes, we should confess our sins to God as soon as we are aware that we have been convicted of sin and we need to confess that sin. However, we do not always need to be asking God for forgiveness. When we place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, all of our sins are forgiven. That includes past, present, and future, big or small. Believers do not have to keep asking for forgiveness or repenting in order to have their sins forgiven. Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins, and when they are forgiven, they are all forgiven.

Did you see that. I said for the 3rd time........"IMHO though, Yes, we should confess our sins to God as soon as we are aware that we have been convicted of sin and we need to confess that sin. "

Now since the Bible says that our PAST sins are forgiven, and our PRESENT sins are forgiven, why do you think that TOMARROWS sin will not be forgiven.

 

[Rodger]

John, an Apostle of Jesus and taught by HIM,
stated in 1 John 1 that we are to ask forgiveness of our sins.

If you don't care to follow his directions, that is a choice you must make for yourself.

1 John 1:8-10
8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

​

Please take the time to read post #729. That is exactly what I said.

 

[Rodger]

How does the CCC contradict scripture??
I'll get to your paragraphs, but first let's find out what the CC teaches about faith and salvation:

CCC 161-163
161 Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation.42 "Since "without faith it is impossible to please (God) " and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life 'But he who endures to the end.'"]

Perseverance in faith

162 Faith is an entirely free gift that God makes to man. We can lose this priceless gift, as St. Paul indicated to St. Timothy: "Wage the good warfare, holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith."44 To live, grow and persevere in the faith until the end we must nourish it with the word of God; we must beg the Lord to increase our faith;45 it must be "working through charity," abounding in hope, and rooted in the faith of the Church.46

Faith - the beginning of eternal life

163 Faith makes us taste in advance the light of the beatific vision, the goal of our journey here below. Then we shall see God "face to face", "as he is".47 So faith is already the beginning of eternal life:
When we contemplate the blessings of faith even now, as if gazing at a reflection in a mirror, it is as if we already possessed the wonderful things which our faith assures us we shall one day enjoy.48


We can see from reading the above that a person must have faith in order to be saved.
He must believe in Jesus.
He must endure till the end.
Till the end....because we must be saved at the time of our death and not only right now.

Works are not mentioned....unless, of course, you believe baptism is a work - in which case it must be shown from scripture.

Now your paragraphs:

• CCC 2010, “…Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life.”

We protestants do believe that God gives us the grace necessary at any given time.
If we use it, we get more, if we do not use it, grace, in that matter, will not increase.

Merit: We all will merit heaven or not merit heaven.
We are moved by the Holy Spirit....many verses confirming this.
It's the Holy Spirit working in us.
Merit means to deserve.
We merit/deserve heaven because we are doing the will of our Father.
Many on these forums state that we need do NOTHING but believe.
This is not taught in the NT.
Jesus and all the writers exhort us to a life of good works.
But good works done with FAITH.

Luke 6:46 WHY DO Y OU CALL ME LORD LORD BUT DO NOT AS I SAY.

John 5:28 ALL WILL ARISE FROM THE DEAD....THOSE WHO DID GOOD DEEDS TO A LIFE OF RESURRECTON, THOSE WHO DID EVIL DEEDS TO JUDGMENT.

Matthew 7:23 NOT EVERYONE WHO SAYS LORD, LORD WILL ENTER INTO HEAVEN....BUT HE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER.

Matthew 7:24 ANYONE WHO HEARS THESE WORDS OF MINE AND ACTS OF THEM IS COMPARED TO A WISE MAN.

Matthew 16: 24 IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ME, TAKE UP YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW ME.

James 1:22 BE NOT ONLY HEARERS OF THE WORD BUT DOERS...DO NOT DECEIVE YOURSELF.

• CCC 2027, “Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods.”

Answered above.

Do you believe it's necessary to OBEY GOD?

• CCC 2068, “The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: “The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments.”

Are we allowed to break the 10 Commandments?
Were they written on stone so we could arbitrarily decide they're not important?
Scripture teaches that the 10 Commandments are for all time.

John 14:15 IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.



Are we not to be baptrized?

Mark 16:16 HE WHO BELIEVES AND IS BAPTIZED WILL BE SAVED.

Matthew 28:19 JESUS TOLD THE APOSTLES TO GO AND TEACH AND BAPTIZE IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Acts 2:38 REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED ALL OF YOU FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS.


Seems to me that it's not the CCC that is not scriptural.
But some who take the teachings of the NT very loosely and without the proper respect for God.

Very long.....I will respond to your 1st question of ...."How does the CCC contradict scripture??"

First of all, In the Catholic religion, the Bible is not the authority.
Catholic theology acknowledges the significance of tradition, including the teachings of the Church Fathers, ecumenical councils, and the Magisterium, as complementary sources of divine revelation instead of accepting the Bible as the final authority.
In Catholicism, tradition is regarded as a higher essential and authoritative source that the actual Word of God.

Secondly, within Catholic theology, while faith is acknowledged as essential for justification, the Catholic doctrine encompasses a broader understanding that incorporates the role of good works, water baptism, being a member of the Catholic church and cooperation with keeping the sacraments.

Third, the practice of worship to saints is un-biblical. Now YOU and the other Catholic believer will say NO, we only practice "Veneration". Worship refers to the act of showing reverence and devotion to God.
You will say that Veneration, respect or honor given to saints, objects, or concepts that are considered sacred.

They are in fact the same thing, only the object changes. In other words i I sat PotAto and you PotOto.

Now I can do about 40 more if you need to know so just ask.

O, by the way..........the last thing you asked was.........
"Are we allowed to break the 10 Commandments?
Were they written on stone so we could arbitrarily decide they're not important?
Scripture teaches that the 10 Commandments are for all time.

I have already answered that question when I said "ALL". We are required to keep all the commands of God.

So where again is the disagreement???????????