Call No Man Father

[Rodger]

OK
And that ends our conversation....
Of which you totally missed the point.
But no matter.
God bless you.

That sounds good to me!

 

[Rodger]

Pick one and we'll go from there.

For which of my items do you need to see the basis of my belief ?

And I encourage you to obey God, instead of following any man-made doctrines.

That is a lie, as I know of many that have fallen away.
Ananias and Sapphira, for starters.

As actual salvation won't be granted until the day of judgement, a better description may be "conversion".

Yes, so why do you not believe my posts ?

It is the same God that will never allow us to be tempted above what we are able to handle.
It is written..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)

I do not accept your posts because you are repeating false teachings of the Pentecostal faith on simlessness.

Your posts are redundant and all you do is repeat yourself I guess thinking that the 6th time you post it, it will magically become truth.

I think we have gone as far as we need to go in this discussion.

Good bye and God bless.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I certainly received the gift of righteousness and God's precious Holy Spirit, but alas, I, like the apostle Paul, still find that in me (that is, in my fleshly nature), dwells no good thing.

Then you, like Paul in his narrative of his preconversion life, are still under the Law and walking in the flesh instead of in the Spirit.

One question for you though... Does your wife (if you have one) think that your sinful nature is eradicated?

I am single.

I am actually pleased to see that you are obviously someone who takes your Christian faith seriously and want to know and walk in the truth.

What would be the point, if we couldn't walk in the truth ?

As you believe that crucifixion means eradication, do you not find it strange that the Bible says:

That isn't what I think crucifixion means.

‘Our old man was crucified with Him’ (Rom 6:6) YET we are still told to ‘put off… the old man, which IS corrupt according to the deceitful lusts.’

The intended audiences of those two disparate verses differ in their status as either "in Christ" or, "not yet in Christ".
If a man has yet to put off the old man, he also hasn't yet been crucified with Christ and the old man destroyed.

(Eph 4:22) If the old man is eradicated and doesn’t exist, why are believers told to put him off? And why does it say that the old man IS corrupt (present tense) if he doesn’t exist anymore in Christians?

Not all the readers are believers.
I wasn't when I first read it.

‘And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.’ (Gal 5:24) YET in the same chapter we are told that there is a daily battle going on within the believer where ‘the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.’ (Gal 5:16)

Which applies to you ?
The life walked in the Spirit or the life walked in the flesh ?
Nobody can walk in both.

If the flesh has been crucified (which in your understanding would mean that it is eradicated and doesn’t exist) then why is there still this on going battle with the Spirit against that which has been crucified and eradicated? Clearly co-crucifixion does not mean eradication!

You see it a a battle.
I don't.
I walk in the Spirit, so the antithesis of my walk would be in the flesh.
They are contrary to one-another so I can't do the things of the flesh anymore.

Now although we have already spent long on this matter, there is a further thing that may help to make it clearer to YOU.
The Scriptures declare that we are “dead indeed”,

Finish the verse !
...dead indeed unto sin !

but nowhere do they say that we are dead in ourselves.

If you haven't been crucified with Christ yet, you won't have been reborn of God's seed yet either.

We shall look in vain to find death within; that is just the place where it is not to be found. We are dead not in ourselves but in Christ.

Those that have suffered the wages of sin, death, (Rom 6:23), are the ones "in Christ".
Beware, you are getting pretty close to being the target of Jesus' words in Matt 16:25..."For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."
You are defending your old life.

We were crucified with Him because we were in Him… As we stand steadfastly on the ground of what Christ is, we find that all that is true of Him is becoming experimentally true in us.

"Experimentally true" ?
Where are you getting this ?
Or do you mean experientially true ?
I have found that the folks who really beleive it is true don't need time to adhere to the truth.

If instead we come onto the ground of what we are in ourselves we will find that all that is true of the old nature remains true of us.

Then they are not reborn of God. Or baptized into Christ or into His death and burial.
They are not "new creatures".

If we get there in faith we have everything; if we return back here we find nothing. So often we go to the wrong place to find the death of self. It is in Christ. We have only to look within to find we are very much alive to sin; but when we look over there to the Lord, God sees to it that death works here but that “newness of life” is ours also. We are “alive unto God” (Rom. 6:4,11).

Classic split-personality doctrine.
How shameful.

In another book Paul writes about the error of believing that the sinful nature has been eradicated stating in Romans 6.........

Write what he says.

Let us note carefully that though the flesh may be so put to death that it becomes "ineffective" (the real meaning of "destroy" in Rom. 6.6), it endures nonetheless.

That isn't from Paul.
Who are you quoting ?

It is a great error to consider the flesh eradicated from us and to conclude that the nature of sin is completely annihilated. Such false teaching leads people astray as it has done to YOU. Regenerated life does not alter the flesh; co-crucifixion does not extinguish the flesh; the indwelling Holy Spirit does not render it impossible to walk by the flesh. The flesh with its fleshly nature abides perpetually in the believer.

You cite writings by a true disciple of the evil one.

Whenever opportunity is provided for its operation, it at once will spring into action. Until such time as we are freed physically from this body we shall not be able to be so delivered from the flesh that no more possibility of its activity exists.

Such lies.

Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh. There is absolutely no eradication of it until this body corrupted from Adam is transformed. Our body is not yet redeemed (Rom. 8.23); it waits for redemption at the return of the Lord Jesus (I Cor. 15.22, 23, 42-44, 51-56; 1 Thess. 4.14-18; Phil. 3.20-21). As long as we are in the body, therefore, we must be alert daily lest the flesh break forth with its wicked deeds.

If it has yet to be "transformed" it has also yet to be killed and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
The body is just a vessel. It is just skin and bones.
It has no intrinsic power.
It is what is inside it that is important.

In like manner, Lewis Sperry Chafer, founder of Dallas Theological Seminary, writes from 1 John 1:8-10 in his book ‘He that is spiritual’ about the error of believing that the sinful nature is eradicated –

Finally, the source of your devilry...
Beware, if you follow devils, you will end up with the devil in the lake of fire.

It is written..." And hereby we do know that we know Him, (God), if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth His word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him.
6 He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked." (1 John 2:3-6)

 

[Hopeful 2]

My friend, this is the 3rd time you have out and out told an untruth.
You said....
You said, that God sees sinners as clean people.
NO I did not! WHY would you continue to do this???? You again broke the commandments of God!!!!

You wrote this in post 935..."God does not see the sinner after we come to His Son. He sees the blood on our souls and that blood makes us accceptable to the Father."
To infer that God won't acknowledge what a man does is saying that God lies to Himself.

God can not even look upon sin. WHat I said was that when we stand before God, He will see the BLLOD applied to our souls.

False doctrines that accommodate sin won't save anyone.

I am not going to respond to the rest of your post.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I do not accept your posts because you are repeating false teachings of the Pentecostal faith on simlessness.

Your posts are redundant and all you do is repeat yourself I guess thinking that the 6th time you post it, it will magically become truth.

I think we have gone as far as we need to go in this discussion.

Good bye and God bless.

"Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)

 

[Corn Pop]

All the many words people speak don't really mean that much.

What's more important?. Believing God and in Christs work and his sacrifice and giving praise to God, or, what Jesus means when he said " do not call anyone "father"?.

Only one saves everything else is important but not a salvation issue.

I don't think anyone is doomed because they misunderstood what Jesus means when he said "do not call someone father". Or, someone believes or does not believe Mary was ever virgin. It's not that important. It doesn't conquor Christ.

If someone thinks if I don't believe Mary was ever virgin im not saved I would question where i can find that in any scripture for me to accept a virgin woman to be saved?.

The Christ come through a virgin named Mary but that's about it. Jesus and none of the Apostles mentioned belief in Mary as a ever virgin as a need for salvation.

 

[Rodger]

You wrote this in post 935..."God does not see the sinner after we come to His Son. He sees the blood on our souls and that blood makes us accceptable to the Father."
To infer that God won't acknowledge what a man does is saying that God lies to Himself.

False doctrines that accommodate sin won't save anyone.

Just as I stated.............

You said, that God sees sinners as clean people.
NO I did not! WHY would you continue to do this???? You again broke the commandments of God!!!!

You said.............
You wrote this in post 935..."God does not see the sinner after we come to His Son. He sees the blood on our souls and that blood makes us accceptable to the Father."
To infer that God won't acknowledge what a man does is saying that God lies to Himself.

See.......You said "You said, that God sees sinners as clean people."
But as you just posted said......
"God does not see the sinner after we come to His Son. He sees the blood on our souls and that blood makes us accceptable to the Father."

You lied my friend. You simply lied.

Again......We are done. I can not deal with this kind of deception from someone who says that they do not sin!

 

[KV-44-v1]

Sorry only apostles have the authority of Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Apostolic succession: apostles must remain till Christ returns Matt 28:19-20

Keys of jurisdictional authority! Open and shut And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.


The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24 acts 2:42

Thks

These apostles are definitely not the catholics of today nor of 1500 years ago.

 

[donadams]

Its defined in Romans 10
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” e 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” f =>Joel 2:32

“work’s gospel”!

 

[donadams]

Its defined in Romans 10
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” e 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” f =>Joel 2:32

This includes baptism of course!

 

[donadams]

Acts 16:31
"Believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved!"

Romans 10:9 says,
“If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

I am not surprised that you did not know about those Scriptures.

So baptism is required?

 

[Randy]

“work’s gospel”!

I didn't write those words. And Paul was quoting Joel. The point was it didn't matter if you were a jew or gentile. "Whosoever calls on the Lord will be saved". Confessing with your mouth and believing in your heart is no more works they being baptized in water which has been shown as making a confession of a clear conscience towards God.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Just as I stated.............
You said.............
You wrote this in post 935..."God does not see the sinner after we come to His Son. He sees the blood on our souls and that blood makes us accceptable to the Father."
To infer that God won't acknowledge what a man does is saying that God lies to Himself.
See.......You said "You said, that God sees sinners as clean people."
But as you just posted said......
"God does not see the sinner after we come to His Son. He sees the blood on our souls and that blood makes us accceptable to the Father."

You lied my friend. You simply lied.

The lie is the statement that God won't see sin on people for what ever reason the accommodators of sin can come up with.

Again......We are done. I can not deal with this kind of deception from someone who says that they do not sin!

 

[donadams]

Great suggestion.....you need to follow your own preaching!

In order to be saved, you need to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. That’s the great message of Scripture. Jesus is the Savior. He has come to do all that needs doing for sinners to be reconciled with God. We have to trust Him, rest in Him, and have confidence in Him—that is faith.

NOT in the Church but in Jesus Christ for there is no other name under heaven whereby we must be saved (Acts 4:12)

I didn't write those words. And Paul was quoting Joel. The point was it didn't matter if you were a jew or gentile. "Whosoever calls on the Lord will be saved". Confessing with your mouth and believing in your heart is no more works they being baptized in water which has been shown as making a confession of a clear conscience towards God.

“Calls”
“Confession”
Require volition or works we must do!

 

[Rodger]

“Calls”
“Confession”
Require volition or works we must do!

That only show your lack of Bible understanding.

 

[Rodger]

So baptism is required?

Again......what you just posted is called, "Disingenuous" and is actually a form of lieing.

 

[Rodger]

The lie is the statement that God won't see sin on people for what ever reason the accommodators of sin can come up with.

As I said now 3 times......We are done. You think yu are sinless but you have lied to me 4 times now.

 

[Rodger]

“work’s gospel”!

Your level of understanding is appalling. No wonder so many people have left the Catholic faith over the years.

 

[Randy]

“Calls”
“Confession”
Require volition or works we must do!

Like infants? I was baptized as an infant. I called on the Lord for the gift of the Spirit as I had no inward testimony. I wouldn't let go of the Lord until He blessed me. He answered my prayers as I felt the surge of the Spirit in me after calling on the Lord and I rejoiced.

anyway we are getting into another subject the OP was.

Call No Man Father​

As I stated it was defined:"Whosoever calls on the Lord will be saved"
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

It didn't state being baptized with water in that declaration. I'm not against baptism .
And keep in mind those are Pauls words not mine. Though actually he was quoting the word of the Lord spoken through Joel.

 

[Hopeful 2]

As I said now 3 times......We are done. You think yu are sinless but you have lied to me 4 times now.

I just cited your post.