Calvinism: A Denial of God's Judgments

[Robert Pate]

If everyone has already been predestinated to heaven or to hell before the foundation of the world, then why would God need to judge anyone?

This is a very serious question and demands an answer.

The word "Judgment" appears in the Bible 294 times. God is a God of judgment. There is a curse for those that pervert God's judgment, Deuteronomy 27:19. Especially for those that deny God's judgments.

"It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this THE JUDGMENT" Hebrews 9:27.

Many believe that they will escape the judgment because they have been predestinated. Not so. Paul wrote, "For we must ALL appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that everyone may receive the things done in his body, according to that he has done, whether it be good or bad" 2 Corinthians 5:10.

Christians will not be judged for their sins, but they will be judged for what they did with the Gospel. It there is no Gospel there will be no salvation.

The Holy Spirit is God's mark of ownership. In the judgment God will identify those that are his by his Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is only given to those that have heard and believed the Gospel, Paul said, "Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

In the judgment will you be found "In Christ" or will you be found in your sins? This is a very serious question. The only way that anyone can be found to be in Christ is by faith. Listen to what Paul says, "That we should be to the praise of his glory, WHO FIRST TRUSTED IN CHRIST. In whom you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:12-13.

Here is the order of salvation.
1. They heard the Gospel.
2. They believed the Gospel.
3. They received the Holy Spirit.

 

[jasonc]

Because by default ,they are worthy of sin,and it's consequences

You really need to understand totally depravity as God made some for perdition to shew his mercy to those that believe .

I'm not reformed but to post this is quite off.in their view nothing happens without God allowing it.good or bad and it's all for God's glory .

 

[Robert Pate]

Because by default ,they are worthy of sin,and it's consequences

You really need to understand totally depravity as God made some for perdition to shew his mercy to those that believe .

I'm not reformed but to post this is quite off.in their view nothing happens without God allowing it.good or bad and it's all for God's glory .

There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says man is totally depraved. Man is corrupt, but he can still hear and believe the Gospel, as proven in Acts, 2:41 also Acts 4:4, when 8,000 were saved by hearing and believing the Gospel.

God is not glorified by evil, nor did God create some to be lost. You have a perverted view of the nature and character of God. God is not willing that any should perish, 2 Peter 3:9.

 

[jasonc]

There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says man is totally depraved. Man is corrupt, but he can still hear and believe the Gospel, as proven in Acts, 2:41 also Acts 4:4, when 8,000 were saved by hearing and believing the Gospel.

God is not glorified by evil, nor did God create some to be lost. You have a perverted view of the nature and character of God. God is not willing that any should perish, 2 Peter 3:9.

I'm not interested in debating the reformed side ,if you want there are three of them here.

Have at it. I just state what I hear .

I enjoy and while I don't agree with them in all points ,they are my brothers.

 

[Robert Pate]

I'm not interested in debating the reformed side ,if you want there are three of them here.

Have at it. I just state what I hear .

I enjoy and while I don't agree with them in all points ,they are my brothers.

What you have heard is Calvinism. Try reading the Bible instead.

 

[jasonc]

What you have heard is Calvinism. Try reading the Bible instead.

So find a church that 100 percent agrees with me ?

It's the arminists that tell the women who abort their child Jesus loves them versus the reformed elder or Deacon that says repent ,don't do it ,it sin.

It's not a hill to die in .if I want the 500 page remonstrant ,I can simply contact my free will brother .who manages to love my pastor and listens to his sermons and also reads spurgeons devotions .

My brother believes in female pastors ,I don't .his church does ,I don't and most arminist churches here do ordain woman .

But what part of I am not reformed did you miss?

 

[Robert Pate]

So find a church that 100 percent agrees with me ?

It's the arminists that tell the women who abort their child Jesus loves them versus the reformed elder or Deacon that says repent ,don't do it ,it sin.

It's not a hill to die in .if I want the 500 page remonstrant ,I can simply contact my free will brother .who manages to love my pastor and listens to his sermons and also reads spurgeons devotions .

My brother believes in female pastors ,I don't .his church does ,I don't and most arminist churches here do ordain woman .

But what part of I am not reformed did you miss?

Religion causes a lot of dissension.

In the Gospel we are all equal "In Christ", there is none better and none worse. We are all sinners saved by the grace of God. You need to scrape your religion and trust in Christ alone.

 

[jasonc]

Religion causes a lot of dissension.

In the Gospel we are all equal "In Christ", there is none better and none worse. We are all sinners saved by the grace of God. You need to scrape your religion and trust in Christ alone.

You really like to argue.

I guess just call a Bible study of me myself and I church .
Seee my brother not pastor change their soteriology but love each other,pastor preached my dad's funeral because I asked,my dad was a member of my brothers church ,an elder there attended ,a family friend and coworker,and another church member who taught my dad and wasn't sure he was saved attended and learned he did believe .these two men having never met wept over my dad who was in heaven .

Yet you say that?
Especially when I said it's not a hill to die in.both my brother and pastor say that . You want to die there,I don't .no one church will have the Bible perfect .as long as the essentials are there it doesn't matter .I'm not leaving my church over some Internet poster .it's not perfect but it's small and perhaps I'm the one who will be used to make it better .it will never be perfect but used by God so long as men will allow it .

So the reformed Presbyterian pastor preached a funeral over a weselayan man whose son and elder listened and also another a pentacostal man also listened and all were grateful for the cross saving my dad .

Sounds like we set aside our differences and preach the gospel.my pastor as was the founder of this church seek out other churches to partner with that will do the same .

I guess to you I should just stop going to any of these Churches that reach and equip men to save souls .

 

[GodsGrace]

If everyone has already been predestinated to heaven or to hell before the foundation of the world, then why would God need to judge anyone?

This is a very serious question and demands an answer.

The word "Judgment" appears in the Bible 294 times. God is a God of judgment. There is a curse for those that pervert God's judgment, Deuteronomy 27:19. Especially for those that deny God's judgments.

"It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this THE JUDGMENT" Hebrews 9:27.

Many believe that they will escape the judgment because they have been predestinated. Not so. Paul wrote, "For we must ALL appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that everyone may receive the things done in his body, according to that he has done, whether it be good or bad" 2 Corinthians 5:10.

Christians will not be judged for their sins, but they will be judged for what they did with the Gospel. It there is no Gospel there will be no salvation.

The Holy Spirit is God's mark of ownership. In the judgment God will identify those that are his by his Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is only given to those that have heard and believed the Gospel, Paul said, "Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

In the judgment will you be found "In Christ" or will you be found in your sins? This is a very serious question. The only way that anyone can be found to be in Christ is by faith. Listen to what Paul says, "That we should be to the praise of his glory, WHO FIRST TRUSTED IN CHRIST. In whom you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:12-13.

Here is the order of salvation.
1. They heard the Gospel.
2. They believed the Gospel.
3. They received the Holy Spirit.

I just wonder if you wouldn't get more readers in Theology instead of here. Many don't visit here.
I also will no longer post here.

 

[Robert Pate]

You really like to argue.

I guess just call a Bible study of me myself and I church .
Seee my brother not pastor change their soteriology but love each other,pastor preached my dad's funeral because I asked,my dad was a member of my brothers church ,an elder there attended ,a family friend and coworker,and another church member who taught my dad and wasn't sure he was saved attended and learned he did believe .these two men having never met wept over my dad who was in heaven .

Yet you say that?
Especially when I said it's not a hill to die in.both my brother and pastor say that . You want to die there,I don't .no one church will have the Bible perfect .as long as the essentials are there it doesn't matter .I'm not leaving my church over some Internet poster .it's not perfect but it's small and perhaps I'm the one who will be used to make it better .it will never be perfect but used by God so long as men will allow it .

So the reformed Presbyterian pastor preached a funeral over a weselayan man whose son and elder listened and also another a pentacostal man also listened and all were grateful for the cross saving my dad .

Sounds like we set aside our differences and preach the gospel.my pastor as was the founder of this church seek out other churches to partner with that will do the same .

I guess to you I should just stop going to any of these Churches that reach and equip men to save souls .

There was no religion in the early church. They all had one thing in common which was faith in Christ and his Gospel.

There was an attempt to establish a religion, but Paul wanted no part of it, 1 Corinthians 1:10-17.

 

[jasonc]

There was no religion in the early church. They all had one thing in common which was faith in Christ and his Gospel.

There was an attempt to establish a religion, but Paul wanted no part of it, 1 Corinthians 1:10-17.

there was no religion fine then ,abandon the right to the first amendment and also good luck on every one seing eye to eye


That is why I said I guess I should stay home because none will ever agree 100 percent .

Paul didn't want division for sure but well there wasn't eschatology when he said that with pre mil as that wasn't even thought of ,the words scriptures was the tanakh and the letters ,and gospeld informal scriptures until the canon was made ,paul was dead by John's book of the revalation of Christ .

When you notice the demonation of your thought has a bias of whatever grey area and another ,the you will notice what I said .until go argue away .I don't care to be trying to change another on a grey area.i have debated escahtology,this stuff and others .few changed .I learned but it's not a focus nor is it bad .there Is No well we just preach the Bible alone as each has an interpretation lense which they see it .

I can simply find the essentials and enjoy fellowship in that . I have no problem with doing that .I seek council from a Spanish speaking charismatic man whose pastor is his wife and they rent from my church .all blessed by my pastor whose leaning are non charismatic reformed and also compliterian .

He says I may get it wrong but wont make it a hill to die on .you do ,I don't .

 

[GodsGrace]

There was no religion in the early church. They all had one thing in common which was faith in Christ and his Gospel.

There was an attempt to establish a religion, but Paul wanted no part of it, 1 Corinthians 1:10-17.

Paul didn't establish a religion?
Every place he went was for the purpose of setting up churches, in homes at the time, to allow people to worship together. They even had Sunday (probably) worship with communion and teaching.

Maybe we're not using the word religion the same?

 

[Robert Pate]

there was no religion fine then ,abandon the right to the first amendment and also good luck on every one seing eye to eye


That is why I said I guess I should stay home because none will ever agree 100 percent .

Paul didn't want division for sure but well there wasn't eschatology when he said that with pre mil as that wasn't even thought of ,the words scriptures was the tanakh and the letters ,and gospeld informal scriptures until the canon was made ,paul was dead by John's book of the revalation of Christ .

When you notice the demonation of your thought has a bias of whatever grey area and another ,the you will notice what I said .until go argue away .I don't care to be trying to change another on a grey area.i have debated escahtology,this stuff and others .few changed .I learned but it's not a focus nor is it bad .there Is No well we just preach the Bible alone as each has an interpretation lense which they see it .

I can simply find the essentials and enjoy fellowship in that . I have no problem with doing that .I seek council from a Spanish speaking charismatic man whose pastor is his wife and they rent from my church .all blessed by my pastor whose leaning are non charismatic reformed and also compliterian .

He says I may get it wrong but wont make it a hill to die on .you do ,I don't .

Religion does not unite, religion divides.

There are hundreds of different denominations, none are based upon the Gospel and justification by faith. The only thing that unites is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In The Gospel Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles them unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. They are all sinners saved by grace and have nothing to boast about, Ephesians 2:8.

 

[Robert Pate]

Paul didn't establish a religion?
Every place he went was for the purpose of setting up churches, in homes at the time, to allow people to worship together. They even had Sunday (probably) worship with communion and teaching.

Maybe we're not using the word religion the same?

Here is my interpretation of the word religion.

RELIGION: Man's preoccupation with his own spirituality, which is himself.

Religious people are not interested in Christ or his Gospel because it is not about them.

 

[GodsGrace]

Here is my interpretation of the word religion.

RELIGION: Man's preoccupation with his own spirituality, which is himself.

Religious people are not interested in Christ or his Gospel because it is not about them.

Come on Robert Pate...
Be serious.

That is not the definition of religion.
Paul did establish the church, along with Peter and the other Apostles who all testified
to this new "religion" that was called The Way and then Chrisitanity in Antioch, and whose
people were no longer welcomed in the synogagues by the end of the first century.

 

[Robert Pate]

Come on Robert Pate...
Be serious.

That is not the definition of religion.
Paul did establish the church, along with Peter and the other Apostles who all testified
to this new "religion" that was called The Way and then Chrisitanity in Antioch, and whose
people were no longer welcomed in the synogagues by the end of the first century.

I am very serious.

Christianity is not a religion. Christianity is about faith in Christ and his Gospel. Religion is about laws, works, piety, etc. it is the religion of man and is under the judgment of God,

 

[GodsGrace]

I am very serious.

Christianity is not a religion. Christianity is about faith in Christ and his Gospel. Religion is about laws, works, piety, etc. it is the religion of man and is under the judgment of God,

But that's not what we're discussing.
You said Paul was not setting up churches.
OK. He was disseminating Christianity.
How do you suppose ANY organization stays together?
Some kind of unit has to be created, find some bldgs people could gather in,
meet every now and then.
There was a new religion emerging. We like to call it faith because we understand the difference,
but it was called a religion and even now is called one of the 3 monotheistic religions in the world.

So, why do you think Paul was NOT creating a new religion/faith?

 

[Robert Pate]

But that's not what we're discussing.
You said Paul was not setting up churches.
OK. He was disseminating Christianity.
How do you suppose ANY organization stays together?
Some kind of unit has to be created, find some bldgs people could gather in,
meet every now and then.
There was a new religion emerging. We like to call it faith because we understand the difference,
but it was called a religion and even now is called one of the 3 monotheistic religions in the world.

So, why do you think Paul was NOT creating a new religion/faith?

Under the New Covenant salvation is by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8.

Salvation never has been by works, laws or religion. The law was given as a restraint until Jesus arrived and then it was abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Works, laws and religion count for nothing under the New Covenant. This is why Paul said, "The Just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. They live by faith in Christ and his Gospel.

 

[GodsGrace]

Under the New Covenant salvation is by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8.

Salvation never has been by works, laws or religion. The law was given as a restraint until Jesus arrived and then it was abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Works, laws and religion count for nothing under the New Covenant. This is why Paul said, "The Just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. They live by faith in Christ and his Gospel.

This is an entirely different subject.

Just quick:
You said that under the NC salvation is by faith and grace.

How were persons saved in the OT under the MC?

 

[Robert Pate]

This is an entirely different subject.

Just quick:
You said that under the NC salvation is by faith and grace.

How were persons saved in the OT under the MC?

Under the Old Covenant people were justified and saved by faith in God's promise of a savior, Romans 4:1-5.