Calvinism: A Denial of Man's Free Will

[Maliah inked here]

I stick to the Gospel of Christ which is one is either born again or they are not. John 3
Dead or alive in Christ
Righteous by Christ's sacrifice or lost
Believer or unbeliever
Children of God or the devil's
Blessed or condemned

Each get heaven or hell and that's by individual choice.

 

[GodsGrace]

I stick to the Gospel of Christ which is one is either born again or they are not. John 3
Dead or alive in Christ
Righteous by Christ's sacrifice or lost
Believer or unbeliever
Children of God or the devil's
Blessed or condemned

Each get heaven or hell and that's by individual choice.

Maliah
When responding to a post, please press the REPLY button in the lower right corner so the other member will know you're responding.
THEN post your reply.
THEN, when finished, POST REPLY.

 

[GodsGrace]

What do you think happens at death for the unbeliever, those who are in Christ, yet without faith?

Their change of mind (ie: repentance) occurs at their appointed time: death. We've already died to the flesh, unbelievers have not, but are waiting to repent at God's appointed time.

The change of mind is from the mind of the flesh (death) to the mind of the spirit (life). For those outside the household of faith, repentance happens at God's appointed time, just like it did for us in our appointed time.

Rom 8:6 for the mind of the flesh is death, and the mind of the spirit—life and peace;

The phrase "the spirit" in Rom 8:6, is often capitalized and translated as "the Spirit" (newer translations for example). However, the context is simply "spirit" (Gk. Rom 8:4, without the article), that is: spirit/breath of life (Gen 2:7). The article is simply being used to point back to the term "spirit" in context.

Read John 5:28 and let us know what it means.

 

[TahitiRun]

I stick to the Gospel of Christ which is one is either born again or they are not. John 3
Dead or alive in Christ
Righteous by Christ's sacrifice or lost
Believer or unbeliever
Children of God or the devil's
Blessed or condemned

Each get heaven or hell and that's by individual choice.

Actually, God ordains all things that come to pass. Nothing happens by "individual choice".

What we see and experience in life is simply the unfolding of God's providence, in time. And for the things we do not see, we have simple faith that God is good, and will work all things according to His will. And, His will is expressed in 1Ti 2:4, and 1Ti 4:10.

 

[Maliah inked here]

Actually, God ordains all things that come to pass. Nothing happens by "individual choice".

What we see and experience in life is simply the unfolding of God's providence, in time. And for the things we do not see, we have simple faith that God is good, and will work all things according to His will. And, His will is expressed in 1Ti 2:4, and 1Ti 4:1

Actually, God ordains all things that come to pass. Nothing happens by "individual choice".

What we see and experience in life is simply the unfolding of God's providence, in time. And for the things we do not see, we have simple faith that God is good, and will work all things according to His will. And, His will is expressed in 1Ti 2:4, and 1Ti 4:10.

“It is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy;” Romans 9:16

YET...

" Whosoever will let him come and take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:17

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen. Romans 11: 33-36

Hallelujah!

 

[GodsGrace]

And the very reason God will have all to be saved, and in-fact God will save all.

1Ti 2:4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;

The term/verb "will" (θελει) is the same verb used by Paul in Rom 9:18. What God wills, God does. Make no mistake. God will have all to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 4:10 for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of all men—especially of those believing.
1Ti 4:11 Charge these things, and teach;

Did Jesus ever talk about hell?

 

[GodsGrace]

Amen! Chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world declares His PLAN for our salvation from the beginning. This is so often misunderstood. This "mystery" that Paul spoke of was God's set plan and purpose before the world. Ephesians chapter 1. We see this plan fully displayed in the birth, life, death and resurrection of our Lord. He is the door swung wide open to "whosoever will, let him come"
Hallelujah! I believe His report! (Isaiah 53) you?

Sure. 700 years or so before Jesus was even born, His birth was being predicted, prophesied.
How about Isaiah 9?
There are so many.

A pastor once explained to us that the chances of Jesus fulfilling more than 2 or 3 prophecies were the same as filling up all of Texas, a foot high, with fake money and putting one quarter in there and then finding it.

Do you agree that one of the mysteries that had been hidden was that the gentiles would be included and Jesus tore down the wall of separation?

This was also prophesied in the Covenant with Abraham and also David, but I'd say it wasn't well understood till after Jesus died.

 

[GodsGrace]

Actually, God ordains all things that come to pass. Nothing happens by "individual choice".

What we see and experience in life is simply the unfolding of God's providence, in time. And for the things we do not see, we have simple faith that God is good, and will work all things according to His will. And, His will is expressed in 1Ti 2:4, and 1Ti 4:10.

You believe in some kind of mixture of calvinism and universalism?

 

[Maliah inked here]

Sure. 700 years or so before Jesus was even born, His birth was being predicted, prophesied.
How about Isaiah 9?
There are so many.

A pastor once explained to us that the chances of Jesus fulfilling more than 2 or 3 prophecies were the same as filling up all of Texas, a foot high, with fake money and putting one quarter in there and then finding it.

Do you agree that one of the mysteries that had been hidden was that the gentiles would be included and Jesus tore down the wall of separation?

This was also prophesied in the Covenant with Abraham and also David, but I'd say it wasn't well understood till after Jesus died.

I absolutely believe that the gentiles were to be included and also the mystery of the catching away of the saints 1 Corinthians 15; 1 Thessalonians 4 from Isaiah 26 ..Paul understood by the spirit many mysteries reveled and fullfilled in and by the Lord's death and resurrection but the mystery of The gospel of The Lord Jesus Christ people stumble over or stand.

Jesus said you have not chosen me but I have chosen you.

So..

The chosen don't do the choosing
(We love him because he first loved us)
But yet the chosen choose to be chosen
(If any man would come after me let him deny himself pick up his cross and follow me)

And there we have it.. the chosen!

Did you smile? Whether or not you did, I did, because I chose to. hehe..

 

[GodsGrace]

My personal opinion is that Calvin's theology, as well as Augustine's teachings are very distorted views of what Jesus and Paul actually taught. UR, as commonly understood, is also somewhat distorted. Arminianism, on the other hand is a complete failure.

Those are my opinions, however.

I just like to share God's love for all His creation. I don't understand why my post's are being deleted for doing so, however.

Perhaps you could tell me?

If a post is deleted, you should be advised as to the reason. I'm not aware of any that have.
You should take this up with TALK WITH THE STAFF, where all staff will be involved.

I asked if Jesus spoke about hell...maybe in a different post or thread so I'll wait for your answer.

Also, what do you feel is misunderstood about universalism?

 

[GodsGrace]

The answer/meaning is found in Joh 5:24-25. All the dead will hear the voice of Christ. They hear according to spirit, not according to the flesh. For the flesh receives not the things of the Spirit. And, all who hear shall live.

Correct me if I'm wrong in understanding you....
So since everyone HEARS, everyone will HAVE LIFE.

Joh 5:24 'Verily, verily, I say to you—He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life.
Joh 5:25 'Verily, verily, I say to you—There cometh an hour, and it now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and those having heard shall live;

For goodness sake, are you using YLT?
I'll just go by what you say you think it says.

Joh 5:28 'Wonder not at this, because there doth come an hour in which all those in the tombs shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 and they shall come forth; those who did the good things to a rising again of life, and those who practised the evil things to a rising again of judgment.

The voice/calling and judgment being spoken of by Christ pertains to unbelievers, and is levied against their flesh, not their spirit.

What happened to ALL WHO ARE IN THE TOMBS WILL HEAR HIS VOICE.
(which is what John 5:28 says)

They (plural) shall come forth. Christ summons both flesh and spirit to come forth in the resurrection of judgment. The spirit comes forth to life (ie: to live) and the flesh comes forth to judgment and destruction.

Where does it state this?
Could you give me the precise wording?

John 5:28 state.
ALL WILL COME FORTH.
THOSE THAT DID GOOD DEEDS TO RESURRECTION OF LIFE,
THOSE WHO DID EVIL DEEDS TO A RESURRECTION OF JUDGEMENT.

Is there a distinction here between spirit and flesh?
At the resurrection, don't we get back our body of flesh?

Believers, however, have already heard, believed and have passed from death to life (v.24), and do not come into judgment.

Agreed. If we believe during our life, we have already passed (here on earth) to a life everlasting, or eternal,
IF WE CONTINUE to believe till our death.

It's the identical judgment spoken of in Mat 25:32-46, however, worded differently in the parable, and that Paul pronounced judgment concerning the "wicked person" that takes place "in the day of the Lord Jesus" (1Co 5:4-5).

Ok I understand how you understand as in Matt 25:32-46
I don't quite understand the connection with 1 Cor 5:4-5
Could you explain better?

PS
John 5:28 seems to be stating that at the end all will come out of their tomb.
Their body presumably since our spirit will already be with God at our death.
All will come out.
Those that did good to an eternal life.
Those that did evil to judgment or damnation.

IOW, it's the time of the last judgment.
The Lord' Day.
There are the good, and there are the evil.

 

[Iconoclast]

The law does not save, nor can it justify, Romans 3:20. This is why Christians are not under it or subject to it. Christians are not bound by sin. Those that are bound by sin are those that are under the law, Romans 7:8. To be under the law and subject to it is to be under the curse, Galatians 3:10.

You do not understand the relationship between law and grace.
Christians are law keepers. That is Why God put it in our hearts.

 

[Iconoclast]

God does indeed have Free Will.
Is He free to choose to do nothing?
Is He free to choose to create another Galaxy?
Is He free to choose to create more Angels?
Is He free to choose what He wants to do today?

Free Will, is nothing more than the ability to choose to do this or that. That's it.

Is God free to lie?
Is God free to change?
Is God free to sin?

 

[Iconoclast]

A devil worshiper helps an old lady cross the street because she needed help, does a Good thing. If you don't believe so, then ask the lady if she thought it was a good thing he/she did for her.

The problem with your speech, is the generalizations. When you say "ANYTHING GOOD" That would entail anything and everything Good, does it not?

If then someone falls down and someone helps her up (DOES GOOD) is that motivated by pride? No. So then your statement is incorrect, when there are thousands of examples where people can do something Good and it is NOT motivated by pride, nor by the Holy Ghost even. A devil worshiper taking his kid to go get icecream is something Good that the devil worshiper does for his kid, and it had nothing to do with being motivated by pride, or led by the Holy Ghost. They merely did GOOD because they wanted to do Good, they CHOSE to do good, which is a result of God allowing ALL HUMANS to have freewill, to either choose to do evil things, or to choose to do Good things, regardless of affiliation with God.

4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.

 

[Iconoclast]

It makes Robert Pate a regular, normal christian that has a belief system.

Calvinists, instead, change the nature of God and preach a different gospel.

Quite a difference I'd say.
Galatians 1,8

Looks like wondering is still wondering how salvation takes place as she denies the biblical God saying the gospel is another gospel.

 

[Iconoclast]

To those who believe you have a "free will" to choose salvation, how do you interpret these verses, especially 13.

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

They deny it, as they have not been allowed to see it as truth,so they invent non biblical ideas instead.

 

[Iconoclast]

This is Truth.



However they are still Christian. i made a video who is a Christian. Any person who accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord is a Christian. And will be judged on the Day of Redemption when Jesus arrives to the Earth.
It seems though that this generation seems to take thought that if a person is a Christian they are Heaven bound. This is NOT Truth. Many are called to become Christians, to Get Saved, but only a very few will actually be chosen to live with Him for all eternity, even though they claim to be Christians.

In the Parable of the Sower, any person who accepts the seed is indeed a Christian. Now what they do with that seed, is what determines where they will spend eternity. If they plant it on Good Ground, they will be Accepted by Him, which will be FEW. Most people who Get Saved however, plant their seed everywhere else, and NOT on Good Ground.

The Good Ground is those who are willing to give up their entire Life, and all that is in it, to gain everlasting life for all eternity. But how many in this generation is willing to die for Christ? Oh yeah, it is easy to say you will, but then the proof is in the pudding they say. If then you are willing to die for Christ, how is it your not willing to give up that sin that so easily besets you? What then? You claim your willing to die for Jesus, but not willing to get rid of the sin that you do ALL THE TIME?



Truth. This is the very reason Jesus said "He that endures to the end shall be Saved" So then even Jesus knew that Getting Saved, and remaining Saved (by enduring to the end) are two entirely different things, i made a video about that as well.



True, you will know them by their works, what they do, what they teach, how they are walking in Christ.
But know this Truth as well. satan will always come after any person who claims to be Christian. Because he is not willing to lose a potential soldier for his battle in the end. satan will come after a professing Christian 100 times moreso than an atheist who he already has in his pocket.

Those that profess Christ as their Savior and Lord, are frequently tested because satan is after them.

You have invented another strange form of a gospel of works, that cannot save

 

[Iconoclast]

What do you think happens at death for the unbeliever, those who are in Christ, yet without faith?

Their change of mind (ie: repentance) occurs at their appointed time: death. We've already died to the flesh, unbelievers have not, but are waiting to repent at God's appointed time.

The change of mind is from the mind of the flesh (death) to the mind of the spirit (life). For those outside the household of faith, repentance happens at God's appointed time, just like it did for us in our appointed time.

Rom 8:6 for the mind of the flesh is death, and the mind of the spirit—life and peace;

The phrase "the spirit" in Rom 8:6, is often capitalized and translated as "the Spirit" (newer translations for example). However, the context is simply "spirit" (Gk. Rom 8:4, without the article), that is: spirit/breath of life (Gen 2:7). The article is simply being used to point back to the term "spirit" in context.

This is made up false ideas not taught in scripture.

 

[Iconoclast]

The law does not save, nor can it justify, Romans 3:20. This is why Christians are not under it or subject to it. Christians are not bound by sin. Those that are bound by sin are those that are under the law, Romans 7:8. To be under the law and subject to it is to be under the curse, Galatians 3:10.

Christians are subject to God's law word in all aspects of life. Love to God, and Love to our neighbors.
Not in order to be saved, but rather because we are saved.

 

[TahitiRun]

This is made up false ideas not taught in scripture.

LOL...other than the drive-by shooting remark, do you have any comments after unloading the clip?