Calvinism defined

[Consecrated Life]

There is an example in scripture of God hating a baby ...
Romans 9:11 and though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything either good or bad, so that God’s purpose [His choice, His election] would stand, not because of works [done by either child], but because of [the plan of] Him who calls them, 12 it was said to her, “The older (Esau) will serve the younger (Jacob).” 13 As it is written and forever remains written, “Jacob I loved (chose, protected, blessed), but Esau I hated (held in disregard compared to Jacob).” AMP
There's many verses saying God is immutable. Therefore, one can conclude that He eternally hates or loves a person.

It's not as if babies are conceived in innocence: Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

So to your understanding there is at least a 50/50 or better chance that God hates your own child and there is nothing in their lifetime they can do to prevent themselves from going where God has pre-determined they go , to hell ?

 

[electedbyHim]

This one:

Luke 15:20
"And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him."

What is yourr point?

We know the father has great mercy, love and compassion.

 

[electedbyHim]

Sow the seed to what ?
We can't act on anything, and have no choice in the matter: so what fruit can "the seed" bear ?

The gospel.

God causes the growth in who He gives faith.

We present the gospel of Jesus Christ to the unregenerate, we do not know who God's elect are, we just plant the seed.

If they are God's elect, God's Spirit will regenerate that person and God will cause the growth.

 

[Consecrated Life]

What is yourr point?

We know the father has great mercy, love and compassion.

The Prodigal was not welcomed into the house of the father because he was a chosen elect for no reason that anyone can say .
The Prodigal made his own decision to come to the father independently based on the knowledge of the father's mercy, love, compassion

 

[Fastfredy0]

God didn't know Esau sold his birthright for a hot supper before the foundation of the world ?

God always knew everything which is proof that He is the cause of all things.

To be blunt, selling one's birth right is not a sin in my opinion. Maybe you can show me what sin is being committed when one is "selling one's birthright". I grant it was a "bad deal". *giggle*

 

[Fastfredy0]

So to your understanding there is at least a 50/50 or better chance that God hates your own child and there is nothing in their lifetime they can do to prevent themselves from going where God has pre-determined they go , to hell ?

I think you have defined "God's child" incorrectly. Ephesians 1:5 He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of His glorious grace and favor, which He so freely bestowed on us in the Beloved [His Son, Jesus Christ].
So God's children does not consist of all mankind; rather, God's children are those He ADOPTS and God loves 100% of the elect which are those He adopts. These people also referred to a His SHEEP as opposed to those He does not love which are referred to as GOATS.

Matthew 13:38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; ... another verse showing those going to hell are sons of Satan and God does not love any of Satan's sons.

 

[electedbyHim]

The Prodigal was not welcomed into the house of the father because he was a chosen elect for no reason that anyone can say .
The Prodigal made his own decision to come to the father independently based on the knowledge of the father's mercy, love, compassion

Do you consider this parable the gospel?

 

[Hopeful 2]

The gospel.

God causes the growth in who He gives faith.

We present the gospel of Jesus Christ to the unregenerate, we do not know who God's elect are, we just plant the seed.

If they are God's elect, God's Spirit will regenerate that person and God will cause the growth.

If God is going to save a few, why depend on men to bring the news of salvation to that few ?
You are saying that the unregenerated need the preachings of men to become reborn.
Isn't the idea that God needs men for anything sort of non-Calvinistic ?

 

[electedbyHim]

If God is going to save a few, why depend on men to bring the news of salvation to that few ?
You are saying that the unregenerated need the preachings of men to become reborn.
Isn't the idea that God needs men for anything sort of non-Calvinistic ?

If God is going to save a few, why depend on men to bring the news of salvation to that few ?

God commands us to preach the gospel.

Matthew 28:19-20 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to keep all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

You are saying that the unregenerated need the preachings of men to become reborn.

They need to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Lord's elect come from the unregenerate.

Isn't the idea that God needs men for anything sort of non-Calvinistic ?

God needs no one.

You do not understand the Sovereignty of God and His glory.

 

[Hopeful 2]

God commands us to preach the gospel.
Matthew 28:19-20 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to keep all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

They need to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Lord's elect come from the unregenerate.

God needs no one.

It seems that according to your doctrine, He does need folks to preach to the unregenerated.
Even though He has picked out random people for salvation, they still need someone to tell them how lucky they are !
I guess.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Do you consider this parable the gospel?

Jesus's illustration of the Father's nature.

 

[Consecrated Life]

I think you have defined "God's child" incorrectly. Ephesians 1:5 He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of His glorious grace and favor, which He so freely bestowed on us in the Beloved [His Son, Jesus Christ].
So God's children does not consist of all mankind; rather, God's children are those He ADOPTS and God loves 100% of the elect which are those He adopts. These people also referred to a His SHEEP as opposed to those He does not love which are referred to as GOATS.

Matthew 13:38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; ... another verse showing those going to hell are sons of Satan and God does not love any of Satan's sons.

I was asking about your own child and are the numerical chances more or less in favor of them being determined by God to be an unregenerate with no hope?

 

[Consecrated Life]

God always knew everything which is proof that He is the cause of all things.

To be blunt, selling one's birth right is not a sin in my opinion. Maybe you can show me what sin is being committed when one is "selling one's birthright". I grant it was a "bad deal". *giggle*

You don't seem very familiar to God's emphasis on the first born male to the nation Israel .
God made it personal.
He was not at all ambiguous about it by the way .

Exodus 13:2
Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.

 

[Fastfredy0]

I was asking about your own child and are the numerical chances more or less in favor of them being determined by God to an unregenerate with no hope?

So to your understanding there is at least a 50/50 or better chance that God hates your own child and there is nothing in their lifetime they can do to prevent themselves from going where God has pre-determined they go , to hell ?

I agree with the statement. God determines my children's eternal fate and everyone's fate. There is empirical data suggesting that children tend to follow the religious beliefs of their parents so it seem God blesses Christian parent's children with salvation more often than the children of non-Christian parents though I don't have a verse to support the empirical evidence.
We follow our desires. We are all born with desires with a 'sin nature'. We don't choose/create our desires. Our desires only change due to external stimulus; in other words you can't change your desires internally as there is no reason to change one's desires.

 

[Consecrated Life]

I agree with the statement. God determines my children's eternal fate and everyone's fate. There is empirical data suggesting that children tend to follow the religious beliefs of their parents so it seem God blesses Christian parent's children with salvation more often than the children of non-Christian parents though I don't have a verse to support the empirical evidence.

Why would God Bless the Christian parents for being Christians when they had no choice in the matter ?

 

[Fastfredy0]

Why would God Bless the Christian parents for being Christians when they had no choice in the matter ?

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it.

They have a choice but they always chose to disbelieve unless God intervenes. God only blesses His own work and does not share His glory with anyone. God is never controlled in anyway by men. God is not a puppet.

I'll give you the last word if you wish.

 

[electedbyHim]

It seems that according to your doctrine, He does need folks to preach to the unregenerated.
Even though He has picked out random people for salvation, they still need someone to tell them how lucky they are !
I guess.

Not my doctrine.

It is evident from your post that you do not undertsand the Sovereignty of God.

There is no such thing as luck, chance and randomness with the Lord. He controls everything.

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap, But its every judgment is from Yahweh

Colossians 1:16-17 For in Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, And in Him all things hold together.

 

[electedbyHim]

Jesus's illustration of the Father's nature.

So what does that have to do with this discussion?

 

[Consecrated Life]

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go

How can a child be trained up to "go" anywhere contrary to where God has pre-determined the child's eternal fate will be before they were even born.
Can an unregenerate child be "trained up" to be an elect child ?

God determines my children's eternal fate and everyone's fate.

 

[Consecrated Life]

So what does that have to do with this discussion?

If you don't get it I wouldn't worry to much about it .