Can a person accept Christ as their saviour?

[Adullam]

I realize that this might seem contentious to some here. For those who seek after the truth...it is not a problem as this is the purpose of this thread..the actual truth. We are to honour God in Jesus Christ....not setting up ourselves as we ought not to do.


Can a person accept Christ as their saviour? Is this our choice to make????


It is God who accepted Christ as the saviour of men. We had nothing to do with it. We still don't. It is God who justifies.

Can we justify ourselves through a belief in an historic event?

Did we offer Jesus to God as our perfect sacrifice? Or did Jesus offer Himself????

Is it to our credit (salvation) that we acknowledge an historic fact??? Does this make us worthy of eternal bliss???

Every day Catholic priests offer Jesus anew as the holy victim (host)for our sins. Protestants frown on this in favour of a salvation based on a self-justifying acknowledgment of an historic fact!

It is God who judges men. Men cannot judge others or even themselves.

"But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. " 1 Cor. 4:3

What is the truth? The truth is Christ and our surrender to Him. We follow Him and He leads us to salvation...this is not our doing. We do the following part and He does the salvation part. What...His sheep recognize His voice and then ignore it??? How can He lead us to pasture if we won't follow!??? We can't say to Jesus...thank you, I'll take that eternal salvation right now???? Does the shepherd bring the pasture to the sheep? Is the kingdom based on instant gratification???

We must persevere to the end bearing fruit of righteousness unto holiness to complete the covenant that Jesus sealed in His own blood. We aren't saved with nonchalance on our part, doing what we feel like in gratitude for what many interpret as a freebie salvation.

The gift of God is given freely...not for free. Salvation will cost us everything we have. Whoever looks back or draws back is not worthy of our saviour Jesus Christ.

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

"And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." Luke 9:62

 

[Adullam]

Just googled and watched a song called "your own personal Jesus"

This song was being performed by a band called depeche Mode in front of thousands of screaming fans! Were these honouring the Lord???

Just what is going on with this doctrine? Is it bringing honour or shame to the Lord? If this had anything to do with the true gospel, wouldn't people be leaving their seats instead of partying and getting high? What does that say about our modern church message?

 

[Joe67]

Addulam,

Truly, truly, it is as it is written.

Rom 8:30-33
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. KJV

We cannot call ourselves. We cannot justify ourselves. We cannot resurrect/glorify ourselves. We are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus... Ephesians 2:10.

Rom 9:25-26
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. KJV

Joe

 

[jasoncran]

another thread on calvinistic views, you breathe correct you can chose right now to die if you wanted to, and not impleying that at all. We do have a free will. God calls us we must accept or decline the offer, otherwise, without free will we are no different the replacators on stargate sg1 ,or the borg.

jason

 

[bleitzel]

another thread on calvinistic views, you breathe correct you can chose right now to die if you wanted to, and not impleying that at all. We do have a free will. God calls us we must accept or decline the offer, otherwise, without free will we are no different the replacators on stargate sg1 ,or the borg.

jason

Amen!

Oh, and by the way, does your signature reference a certain ventrilouquist's hysterical persian puppet???

"Silence! I kiiiiillllll you!" rofl

 

[Dave Slayer]

Arminians still must explain the verses on predestination. Does God predestine and choose us after He first looked into the distant future and saw who would choose Him and then choose us? Show me scriptural support for that.

Suppose this were true and God did look into the future and saw who would accept Jesus and who wouldn't. Those who didn't accept Jesus will not be chosen by God since God knows that not everyone will accept Jesus. How can you then say that God is trying to save everyone when He knew before time not all would accept Jesus?

I think the real reason why people don't like the doctrines of predestination is because it chaps their hyde. However, whether you are an Armianian or a Calvinist, we are all still Brothers and Sisters in Christ. Both systems are man made and neither are perfect.

Perhaps we shouldn't focus so much on whether Calvinism is true, and if God only predestined some to eternal life. Instead, let's get off our behinds and go preach the Saviour to the lost and leave the rest up to God.

:amen

 

[Dave Slayer]

One more thing.

Calvinism in a nutshell teaches that God in eternity past has chosen some to be saved before the foundations of the earth. These who God had chosen, He will draw them when the Gospel is preached to them. When a sinner hears the Gospel and responds by acceping Jesus, chances are he was one of the elect.

However, some of the elect may not accept Jesus the first time he hears the Gospel. They may not respond until the 3rd of 4th time. But those who are non elect will always refuse the Gospel, no matter how many times it is preached to them. No one can say "I wanted to come to Christ but I couldn't because I wasn't one of the elect". Anyone who desires to come to Christ will be saved. But the only reason why some have such a desire is because God gave it to them.

Free will will never carry a soul to heaven, only to hell. If one chooses God, it is not because he had free will to do so. It is because God regenerated his heart so he could then choose God upon preaching of the Gospel.

If God does choose who will be saved, many will say "that is not fair". What would be fair is if God left us to die in our sins. God did not have to redeem anyone but He did. And we should be thankful.

If God only chose some to be saved, why do we preach the Gospel to everyone? Because we are commanded to. We have no idea who the elect are and we are to preach the Gospel to all. God calls His elect by means of preachers.

Many believe that since God chose certain people then we shouldn't preach since God will save them anyways. God will not repent for us. We must repent. Those whom God has chosen, He will give them a new heart so when the Gospel is preached, they will accept it. But no one can accept the Gospel apart from God's drawing. If God draws everyone, then everyone should be saved. Those who don't repent are still responsible for their sin. If one dies in their sin and goes to hell, God is not to blame. Those in hell are paying the price for their sin. That is fair. Those in heaven are there because God chose them out of the world. Why He did? Out of the goodness of His own pleasure. God can do whatever He wants with His creation.

Anyways, that is all I wish to say on this subject. I thought perhaps this would help clear up some possible misunderstandings about Calvinism. I personally do not think this is an issue that should divide the body of Christ. Like I said in my previous post. Stop worrying about Calvinism and Arminianism and go preach the Gospel. God uses both Calvinists and Arminians to win the lost for Christ.


God Bless!

Dave

 

[jasoncran]

another thread on calvinistic views, you breathe correct you can chose right now to die if you wanted to, and not impleying that at all. We do have a free will. God calls us we must accept or decline the offer, otherwise, without free will we are no different the replacators on stargate sg1 ,or the borg.

jason

Amen!

Oh, and by the way, does your signature reference a certain ventrilouquist's hysterical persian puppet???

"Silence! I kiiiiillllll you!" rofl

yes, that's ahmed, i wish should have put him as my avatar.

 

[Adullam]

This thread is not Calvanistic at all. I am against Calvin and his teachings. The truth is neither Calvinistic nor Armenian. These are extreme views in extreme error. It isn't only God or only men at work...it is God AND man working together.

Salvation is a process and conditional to the completion of the race.

Fruit is required.

Only God applies grace however...we cannot make ourselves be born from above any more than we are born into this world through our proper will. We can ask however!!!! We can knock....we can seek...God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

The truth is that as we draw near to God He draws near to us.

Likewise, as God draws near to us we can then draw near to God. We can't limit God by puny human reasonings.

God decides who is saved. We can't decide to be saved! We can decide to follow Jesus, yes....but He must ratify that request. We aren't stalkers of Christ after all. We go to Him and He receives us. Or else, He calls us, and we respond...it works both ways.

 

[Dave Slayer]

This thread is not Calvanistic at all. I am against Calvin and his teachings. The truth is neither Calvinistic nor Armenian. These are extreme views in extreme error. It isn't only God or only men at work...it is God AND man working together.

Salvation is a process and conditional to the completion of the race.

Fruit is required.

Only God applies grace however...we cannot make ourselves be born from above any more than we are born into this world through our proper will. We can ask however!!!! We can knock....we can seek...God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

The truth is that as we draw near to God He draws near to us.

Likewise, as God draws near to us we can then draw near to God. We can't limit God by puny human reasonings.

God decides who is saved. We can't decide to be saved! We can decide to follow Jesus, yes....but He must ratify that request. We aren't stalkers of Christ after all. We go to Him and He receives us. Or else, He calls us, and we respond...it works both ways.

I would rather Christians not be divided over this issue, personally. Some Calvinists will call Arminians heretical but I would not place myself in that camp.

 

[Adullam]

This thread is not Calvanistic at all. I am against Calvin and his teachings. The truth is neither Calvinistic nor Armenian. These are extreme views in extreme error. It isn't only God or only men at work...it is God AND man working together.

Salvation is a process and conditional to the completion of the race.

Fruit is required.

Only God applies grace however...we cannot make ourselves be born from above any more than we are born into this world through our proper will. We can ask however!!!! We can knock....we can seek...God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

The truth is that as we draw near to God He draws near to us.

Likewise, as God draws near to us we can then draw near to God. We can't limit God by puny human reasonings.

God decides who is saved. We can't decide to be saved! We can decide to follow Jesus, yes....but He must ratify that request. We aren't stalkers of Christ after all. We go to Him and He receives us. Or else, He calls us, and we respond...it works both ways.

I would rather Christians not be divided over this issue, personally. Some Calvinists will call Arminians heretical but I would not place myself in that camp.

Agreed! :amen

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

I realize that this might seem contentious to some here. For those who seek after the truth...it is not a problem as this is the purpose of this thread..the actual truth. We are to honour God in Jesus Christ....not setting up ourselves as we ought not to do.


Can a person accept Christ as their saviour? Is this our choice to make????


It is God who accepted Christ as the saviour of men. We had nothing to do with it. We still don't. It is God who justifies.

Can we justify ourselves through a belief in an historic event?

Did we offer Jesus to God as our perfect sacrifice? Or did Jesus offer Himself????

Is it to our credit (salvation) that we acknowledge an historic fact??? Does this make us worthy of eternal bliss???

Every day Catholic priests offer Jesus anew as the holy victim (host)for our sins. Protestants frown on this in favour of a salvation based on a self-justifying acknowledgment of an historic fact!

It is God who judges men. Men cannot judge others or even themselves.

"But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. " 1 Cor. 4:3

What is the truth? The truth is Christ and our surrender to Him. We follow Him and He leads us to salvation...this is not our doing. We do the following part and He does the salvation part. What...His sheep recognize His voice and then ignore it??? How can He lead us to pasture if we won't follow!??? We can't say to Jesus...thank you, I'll take that eternal salvation right now???? Does the shepherd bring the pasture to the sheep? Is the kingdom based on instant gratification???

We must persevere to the end bearing fruit of righteousness unto holiness to complete the covenant that Jesus sealed in His own blood. We aren't saved with nonchalance on our part, doing what we feel like in gratitude for what many interpret as a freebie salvation.

The gift of God is given freely...not for free. Salvation will cost us everything we have. Whoever looks back or draws back is not worthy of our saviour Jesus Christ.

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

"And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." Luke 9:62

no i dont believe anyone a' accepts christ as savour" but that it is a divine work of God in us to transform us, give us a new heart, a new spirit, His Spirit and Him causing us to walk in His ways and draw unto him

 

[bleitzel]

Arminians still must explain the verses on predestination. Does God predestine and choose us after He first looked into the distant future and saw who would choose Him and then choose us?...Perhaps we shouldn't focus so much on whether Calvinism is true, and if God only predestined some to eternal life.


I think the real reason why people don't like the doctrines of predestination is because it chaps their hyde.

I’m neither an Arminian nor a Calvinist and the reason why is because both of those teachings believe that when they read Ephesians 1 and Romans 8 and 9 they think Paul is teaching only some are chosen to eternal life, and some are left to eternal death. They just disagree on how this comes about.

THIS doctrine of predestination is what chaps my hide, because Paul is in no way teaching this doctrine of division. In a simple nutshell, Paul is instead teaching that before Christ came the Jews thought they were chosen for eternal life and that this inferred that the Gentiles were not chosen. But the truth Paul is espousing is that now it can be seen that the Gentiles were chosen also, just where the Jews were the natural family of God, they’re adopted into the family through Christ.

The real doctrine of predestination is that everyone has been predestined to be redeemed by Christ’s sacrifice. It’s just up to us to believe and repent.

 

[bleitzel]

Free will will never carry a soul to heaven, only to hell. If one chooses God, it is not because he had free will to do so. It is because God regenerated his heart so he could then choose God upon preaching of the Gospel.

If God does choose who will be saved, many will say "that is not fair". What would be fair is if God left us to die in our sins. God did not have to redeem anyone but He did. And we should be thankful.

Among the other things which you have said that I completely disagree with, I thought it best to just stick to a couple.

Free will is not what carries a soul to Heaven. However, free will CAN allow someone to realize how sinful they are, humble themselves, believe in God and repent. If one chooses to do these things it IS because they had the free will to do so. Otherwise we’re no better off than the beasts of the Earth. They can’t choose spiritual things like the “unregenerate†of the Calvinist teachings either. In fact, we’re worse off than the beasts! They’re not predestined for eternal death, just the Calvinist un-chosen ones are!

And if God does choose to save some for no reason in them and chooses not to save some for no reason in them either then God is a capricious, arbitrary god, and not all-loving and perfectly just.

Why do you say “And we should be thankful.†You could only say that if you were one of the “chosen.†And since you have no way of knowing if you are, and since there will be a lot more of the â€Åun-chosen†ones, maybe you should re-think that…

 

[mondar]

One more thing.

Calvinism in a nutshell teaches........snip.......God uses both Calvinists and Arminians to win the lost for Christ.


God Bless!

Dave

Hello Dave. Good job. I must admit I might not have been as gentle. Keep up the good work.

 

[Adullam]

One more thing.

Calvinism in a nutshell teaches........snip.......God uses both Calvinists and Arminians to win the lost for Christ.


God Bless!

Dave

Hello Dave. Good job. I must admit I might not have been as gentle. Keep up the good work.

..unless they are winning the lost for Calvin and Arminius!

 

[Dave Slayer]

One more thing.

Calvinism in a nutshell teaches........snip.......God uses both Calvinists and Arminians to win the lost for Christ.


God Bless!

Dave

Hello Dave. Good job. I must admit I might not have been as gentle. Keep up the good work.

..unless they are winning the lost for Calvin and Arminius!

That would be shameful. I will admit, I hold to the teachings of "Calvinism" but I do not follow or worship John Calvin. The doctrines taught within "Calvinism" were actually around long before John Calvin. St. Augustine would be considered a "Calvinist" by some because he taught a lot of what is now called "Calvinism". The term "Calvinism" is a term used more out of convenience for the Reformed view of theology and not because Calvinists follow John Calvin. "Calvinism" is simply a term and has nothing to do with John Calvin. Same school of thought goes with Jacob Arminius.

Also, not all Calvinists believe everything John Calvin taught and not all Arminians believed everything Jacob Arminius taught.

 

[mutzrein]

Since when did one who is dead, choose life?

 

[Adullam]

Since when did one who is dead, choose life?

This is common. Have you heard of the prodigal son? ;)

 

[Joe67]

The younger, "prodigal," son had already received the earnest of his inheritance, before he went into all the world to preach the gospel to all nations.

When "the end" came for him he was feeding swine ( split hoof/no chewing of the cud ) preaching the doctrines of a single sided sword under the authority of another "man", who thought he was going to go to heaven, and sit on the sides of the north, and be like the Most High. This left him empty inside and hungry for the two-edged sword of truth, to be justified and sanctified by blood, and to serve as a priest on this earth for the "thousand years" of darkness, "like an evening past."

Then God returned his senses; even as God has promised to return us to our land ( the simplicity of Christ ) from our north country ( Babylonian worship of Christ through free will and immortality of soul). We will not hear the call to leave Babylon ( the north country ) until our "senses" are returned and we see that we are feeding swine, and that to be a "servant" in our Father's house is "better" than swine service. Then we will serve in the temple of the new Jerusalem come down from God by the Spirit given unto the Body of Christ, the fullness of Him who fills all in all. Then we will serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter; as we remain "dead" to human wisdom, the tree of knowledge. Then God, the Father, will be "all in all." 1 Corinthians 15:28. The gospel of God's resurrected Son is then subject to the Father's eternal purpose in election, the double-edged truth of God in Christ. See 2 John 9. We are GIVEN to BOTH believe and to suffer in behalf of Christ. Philippians 1:29.

Only when we are "humiliated" with Jesus Christ, in the end of our service, are we given a "heart" to understand this in our inner parts. Then we will halt on our thigh as Jacob, after we have seen the angels and wrestled at the little flowing water way. When we are "humiliated" by weakness in our reproductive part, the thigh, then our name will be changed from "supplanter" to "overcomer" by the very angel who brought us weakness.

Joe