Bible Study Can Anyone be Saved....Without Understanding Psalms 51 ?

[Jay T]

The other 'sabbaths', found in the Law of Moses, such as the "Passover', The Feasts of Unleaven Bread, The Feasts of Trumpets, etc,...etc. were abolish, at the cross (Ephesians 2:15.......Colossians 2:14-16).

Then why did Paul teach that we should keep the passover?

Please state Bible verse(s).

 

[Blazin Bones]

Salvation doesn't depend on a work of logic, example 'understanding.' Salvation is a gift of God given freely.

I'm with Jason. All one must understand to receive Salvation is except all that Christ did on the cross. God's Blessings. 8-)

 

[Jay T]

Salvation doesn't depend on a work of logic, example 'understanding.' Salvation is a gift of God given freely.

I'm with Jason. All one must understand to receive Salvation is except all that Christ did on the cross. God's Blessings. 8-)

It is the sophistry of Satan that the death of Christ brought in grace to take the place of the law. The death of Jesus did not change or annul or lessen in the slightest degree the law of Ten Commandments.
That precious grace offered to men through a Saviour's blood establishes the law of God (Romans 3:31).
Since the fall of man, God's moral government and His grace are inseparable. They go hand in hand through all dispensations. "Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other" (Psalm 85:10).

Jesus, our Substitute, consented to bear for man the penalty of the law transgressed. He clothed His divinity with humanity and thus became the Son of man, a Saviour and Redeemer. The very fact of the death of God's dear Son to redeem man shows the immutability of the divine law. How easily, from the transgressor's standpoint, could God have abolished His law, thus providing a way whereby men could be saved and Christ remain in heaven! The doctrine which teaches freedom, through grace, to break the law is a fatal delusion.

Every transgressor of God's law is a sinner (1 John 3:4), and none can be sanctified while living in known sin.

The condescension and agony of God's dear Son were not endured to purchase for man liberty to transgress the Father's law and yet sit down with Christ in His throne. It was that through His merits and the exercise of repentance and faith the most guilty sinner might receive pardon and obtain strength to live a life of obedience. The sinner is not saved in his sins, but from his sins.


What Sin Is

The soul must first be convicted of sin before the sinner will feel a desire to come to Christ. "Sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4). "I had not known sin, but by the law" (Romans 7:7). When the commandment came home to Saul's conscience, sin revived, and he died. He saw himself condemned by the law of God. The sinner cannot be convinced of his guilt unless he understands what constitutes sin. It is impossible for an individual to experience Bible sanctification while he holds that if he believes in Christ it is immaterial whether he obeys God's law or disobeys it.

Those who profess to keep the law of God and yet at heart are indulging in sin are condemned by the True Witness. They claim to be rich in a knowledge of the truth; but they are not in harmony with its sacred principles. The truth does not sanctify their lives. God's Word declares that the professed commandment-keeper whose life contradicts his faith is blind, wretched, poor, and naked.

God's law is the mirror presenting a complete reflection of the man as he is, and holding up before him the correct likeness. Some will turn away and forget this picture, while others will employ abusive epithets against the law, as though this would cure their defects of character. Still others who are condemned by the law will repent of their transgressions and, through faith in Christ's merits, will perfect Christian character.

 

[Jay T]

Salvation doesn't depend on a work of logic, example 'understanding.'

It does, if one does not understand what Salvation is:
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge...seeing that they have forgotten the Law of thy God", (Hosea 4:6).

And Satan, has managed to deceive the Christian world, on that point:

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

11:15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his [ministers] also be transformed as the [ministers] of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works". (2 Corinthians 11:14,15).

 

[Blazin Bones]

Jay T., I'm just looking at the surface Issue, do you follow Christ or not.
For someone to truly be a follower of Christ, they will follow the Laws with very little effort because they are truly in the spirit. Whether or not there is a deeper understanding needed in be true to this matter remains to be seen. I have a friend named Joseph who is autistic, he understands the message of Christ, that doesn't mean he has to understand the law as well. As I said, if you truly understand the gift of Salvation, you don't need to understand the law, the spirit will make you live by it.

 

[Jay T]

Jay T., I'm just looking at the surface Issue, do you follow Christ or not.

I would caution anyone, to 'NEVER' look at the surface of Christianity....as that is how Satan deceives people.

For someone to truly be a follower of Christ, they will follow the Laws with very little effort because they are truly in the spirit.

Absolutely correct. The outgrowth of love for God, is keeping the 10 commandments.
As Jesus said: "IF...you love me, keep my commandments", (John 14:15).

A born-again person does 'not' keep to the commandments to 'love' Christ.....but keeps them, 'because they love Jesus.

1 John 5:2 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous".

 

[Elijah message]

Brutus/HisCatalyst wrote:
Jason wrote:
Salvation doesn't depend on a work of logic, example 'understanding.' Salvation is a gift of God given freely.


I'm with Jason. All one must understand to receive Salvation is except all that Christ did on the cross. God's Blessings.

********
Elijah here:
It was Christ that simply stated.. "If ye love me keep my commandments". And here is this 'post' saying.. [All one must understand to receive Salvation is except all that Christ did on the cross.]

The message even obliterate's Christ's Word of Matt. 28:20!!
We need caution that one does not openly cheapen a grace that cost the GodHead more than one can ever comprehend! See Heb. 6:6. If one knowingly does that, they might think O.S.A.S? But the END result is seen in face value, as that of James 1:15 & will find the ones [knowing better], with the many others in Obad. 16. :

An Everlasting Gospel & an Everlasting Covenant, is just that! CONDITIONAL! As has [EVER] been the Truth!! Rev. 14:6 & Heb. 13:20.

 

[evanman]

The other 'sabbaths', found in the Law of Moses, such as the "Passover', The Feasts of Unleaven Bread, The Feasts of Trumpets, etc,...etc. were abolish, at the cross (Ephesians 2:15.......Colossians 2:14-16).

Then why did Paul teach that we should keep the passover?

Please state Bible verse(s).

1Cr 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.

 

[Khristeeanos]

We can sin as much as we want, and still obtain salvation, because Christ died on the cross to atone for the sins of all mankind. There is no need to repent because Christ already paid for our sins !!!

Here is what the Bible really says!

Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

Yes, many people do teach a "sin at will" grace and by it deny Jesus.

 

[Joeri]

lol. if everyone who did not understand the psalms would die in hell 4ever, noone would be saved. psalm 89, verse 45.
about jesus, butit hasnt happened yet. sadly people believe that jesus suffering is limited to a cross. when that was just the first wine, and the true wine is saved for last.

 

[Jay T]

lol. if everyone who did not understand the psalms would die in hell 4ever, noone would be saved. psalm 89, verse 45.
about jesus, butit hasnt happened yet. sadly people believe that jesus suffering is limited to a cross. when that was just the first wine, and the true wine is saved for last.

Sincerity will save no one.

Those who enter the City of God are those who obey God's commandments:
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness ?" (Romans 6:16).

"Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city", (Revelation 22:14).

AND....God points out a people who do:
"Here is the patience of the saints...here are they that keep the commandments of God, and have the faith of Jesus", (Revelation 14:12).

 

[evanman]

I never heard any of the Apostle preach that to be saved one must understand psalm 51.

Philip led the Ethiopian Eunuch to faith through Isaiah 53!

 

[Jay T]

I never heard any of the Apostle preach that to be saved one must understand psalm 51.

To listen to the Apostles 'only'.....is to pay attention to only a fraction, of what God is trying to tell people.

God wrote the 'WHOLE' Bible to be studied.....not just a part of it:
'It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by [every word] that proceedeth out of the mouth of God".(Matthew 4:4).

You mean to tell me, you do not see the details of how salvation works ?!?


For example:
In Psalms 51...it tells us to ask God for the forgiveness of sins.......to create in us a new heart......you can't see this ?

Psalms 51:1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.

51:2 Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin [is] ever before me.
51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done [this] evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, [and] be clear when thou judgest.
51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden [part] thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
51:8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; [that] the bones [which] thou hast broken may rejoice.
51:9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

 

[spiritfilled7]

In order to be saved you must understand that you need to be renewed by Christ. We do need to repent and turn to Christ. But the bible talks about repentance in many places. So these verses are not the only one to reach someones heart.

 

[evanman]

When a person makes a statement that one can ONLY be saved if one understands Psalm 51 is a false statement!

I doubt that most of the first converts to Christ from Judaism had Psalm 51 in mind!

In fact I cannot find Psalm 51 even quoted by the Apostles on the day of Pentecosts!

 

[Elijah message]

What has any man at the start to offer but sincerity? And there will be saved 'sheep of other folds' who have died over the many years of the past even, who will be saved by being sincerely IN CHRIST! Rom. 8:1

Even sheep of no fold. As Rom. 2:14-15 points out, some from learning to be totally sincere, without even having any of Matt. 4:4's food in the written form, and these are Born Again with the work of the law written in their heart. Mankind is accountable for only the knowledge God gives them!

And then too, how does one think that the 'many' of Rev. 18:4 "My People" become His people? The Fatal Choice had never even been known or given to the earlier on SINCERE of, "MY PEOPLE" ones!

And last but not least, for me at least, it a paragraph or two from E.G.White that she agrees with me on, that goes something like this: The reason the Lord does not bring many into the church (Adventist) is because of the church. What example would these new converts receive?

And surely if that was the case way back then, what would she say today about Adventism Jay? Sounds to me like Matt. 10:5-6 needs a repeat before Rev. 14:6-10 can unfold as required? But, perhaps she already has had that 'midnight cry' and has had her candelstick already removed (Rev. 2:5) & the wise virgins have already 'seperated' (Matt. 25) and are giving the real Rev. 14:6-10 last three angels messages, huh? While the door was 'shut to the Spewed out ones' of Rev. 3's Laodicea.

Perhaps an [mature Adventist] would look this up for us, for her exact words, if they believe her words???

But the bottom line is, if SINCERITY cannot save these others while 'IN CHRIST', how can it still save any in/mature who are 'sincere' while still yoked in membership with Adventism?? And then, what about all that have died in the Laodicean state of past years??

Personnaly speaking, I cannot see how any mature(?) Adventist of today, could bypass their duty of Matt. 10:5-6 on, thinking that Christ will just wink, & then send them out with the True 3 Angels message?? It is beyond me!! Sounds more like 'their sincerity' falls in the Heb. 6:6 condemnation? :

---Elijah

 

[Judy]

Re: thinking

We can sin as much as we want, and still obtain salvation, because Christ died on the cross to atone for the sins of all mankind. There is no need to repent because Christ already paid for our sins !!!

========================
That type of thinking makes this planet a dangerous place.

I agree. It also gives Christians a bad name. rebazar, it appears your posts are meant to incite an argument, so I will have to ask all not to respond to your posts.

What reznweks says is true, Now wait before you hang me. We are saved by the work that Jesus did on the cross, and if you are a true born again christian there is nothing that can take away your salvation. But, does a real born again christian believe that they now can just run around sinning and get away with it????? Is that the attitude a real christian has?? No! a real born again christian wants to please our Lord... not see how much they can get away with. We are truely repentant when we sin... our hearts break when we sin. There is no joy in sinning to a born again christian as your post implies. :

 

[spiritfilled7]

As a christian we should desire to do right. Sure we will mess up but we must be separate from the world.

 

[Elijah message]

OK: I agree with this. Now tell us what 'sin' is? No games please! For the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit which we believe is the Word (Christ) tells us exactly what sin is. There is the starting point of sin, and there is the end of sin, or the finished product of sin. And the answer is documented in the New Testament.

Don't run & hide now! :wink: See 1 Peter 3:15? "... and be ready ALWAYS to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the [hope] (?) that is in you with meekness and [fear]." (??) Fear of what??

---Elijah

 

[Judy]

Hi John,(Elijah)
Not sure if you were talking to me or not but I will try to answer it.
Sin is anything that is contrary to the law or will of God. If you commit adultery, you have sinned. Because God has said not to commit adultery Exodus 20:14. If you do what God has forbidden, then you have sinned. And if you do not do what God has commanded, you sin James 4:17. Either way, the result is eternal separation from God Isaiah 59:2.
Sin is lawlessness 1 John 1:3
Sin is unrighteousness 1 John 5:17.
Sin leads to death Rom. 6:23.
Paul, in the book of Romans, discusses sin. He shows that everyone, both Jew and Greek, is under sin Rom. 3:9. He shows that sin is not simply something that is done, but a condition of the heart Rom. 3:10-12. In Ephesians Paul says that we are "by nature children of wrath" Eph. 2:3. Yet, "while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly" Rom. 5:6.