J
Jay T
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evanman said:
Perhaps you missed it.....but I did mention Psalms 51 ...as the 'Model' of how salvation works.
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Bible Study Can Anyone be Saved....Without Understanding Psalms 51 ?
Perhaps you missed it.....but I did mention Psalms 51 ...as the 'Model' of how salvation works.
E
evanman
Guest
That is not what they title of the thread is!
J
Jay T
Guest
The Title is...."Can anyone be saved...without understanding Psalms 51:1-12" ?evanman said:
#1.) Without asking God for the forgivenesss if sin....is not past sins against us....to be used, in the Judgment Day of God ?
#2.) Without asking God to create in us, a new heart....can anyone be re-born again ?
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Elijah message
Guest
Jay T said:
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No. two: Sure! Re/word your thinking? You sound like what they say about me, huh? :wink:
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evanman
Guest
So, then, a person cannot be saved if they have never read Psalm 51 first. After all in order to understand what a Psalm says one has to read it.
J
Jay T
Guest
How can a person ever be saved, without asking God to forgive past sin ?evanman said:
Any sin brings the death penalty, 'wages of sin is death', (Romans 6:23).
Any sin, left on the books of heaven, come Judgment Day is fatal....PERIOD !
There is never an excuse for not asking God to forgive any sin, that may have been committed that day.
The very moment that a sin may have happened.....there should be an immediate sorrow and repentance, and the resolution, not to let it happen again.
Jesus said:
"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by [EVERY word] that proceedeth out of the mouth of God", (Matthew 4:4).
E
Elijah message
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evanman said:
*****
Elijah here:
Evanman, if you have posted this above correctly? then one needs to address the remark CLEARLY!
It seem's to me that a real Christian would say that he meant something else, and explain what it was that he meant by the remark? (if he did?) or else own up to the fact that he made a plain out bo bo! Are we too 'self centered' (prideful) to be able to do that??? I agree that it might be real hard to do such, at first? Or when first done, but after a day or so, when the Holy Spirit 'leads' (Rom. 8:14) & pricks the heart & mind, surely one had best own up to the [sin].
Sin??? If this remark is left intack as the thread states, with the zig/zagging 2 Cor. 2:4 response, then, it is not truth! Plain & simple. This is exactly how all the Rev. 17:5 ones got started on the wrong path!
:. Is 'commandment breaking silence' any better than Sabbath breaking?
Perhaps we need Judy to install a bo bo corner up in the right hand corner for the mistakes (sin, if not corrected) that we [ALL] make?
J
Jay T
Guest
No, because the Bible lists the conditions, by which eternal life is attained to.Judy said:
#1.) without asking God to blot out our past sins.....those sins will remain on the books of heaven to testify against us, in the Day of God's Judgment.
#2.) Jesus told Nicodemus that unless a person is born again...they cannot see the Kingdom of heaven.
Both of these points, are covered in Psalms 51:1-12.
E
Elijah message
Guest
Jay T said:
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+!+!+!, Elsewhere!! Rom. 2:14-15! ---Elijah
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evanman
Guest
I do not believe that it is necessary to understand psalm 51 in order to be saved.
A person needs to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ. Perhaps Psalm 51 does contain this message, however it would be no problem if a person did not understand this about Psalm 51.
What if a person has never read Psalm 51? Are you telling me they would be disqualified from the Grace of God?
A person needs to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ. Perhaps Psalm 51 does contain this message, however it would be no problem if a person did not understand this about Psalm 51.
What if a person has never read Psalm 51? Are you telling me they would be disqualified from the Grace of God?
Sounds like the 6th chapter of Romans says otherwise about willfully sinning after conversion.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things [is] death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things [is] death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
E
Elijah message
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Joined: 25 Dec 2001
Posts: 29
Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:32 am Post subject:
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Sounds like the 6th chapter of Romans says otherwise about willfully sinning after conversion.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
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Elijah here: Who are you questioning? If I have sounded in anyway as to have you think this? It is not the case. I agree with your thinking on 'these' verses at least. Yet. not on the original remark by the original thread starter!
Posts: 29
Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:32 am Post subject:
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Sounds like the 6th chapter of Romans says otherwise about willfully sinning after conversion.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
*********
Elijah here: Who are you questioning? If I have sounded in anyway as to have you think this? It is not the case. I agree with your thinking on 'these' verses at least. Yet. not on the original remark by the original thread starter!
D
Dee_wwjd
Guest
Steps I believe to Salvation:
1. Realise you are a sinner
2. Believe in Jesus and all that He did for You
3. Ask for forgiveness
4. Repent (which means turn away from sin)
5. Follow Christ, and live a Christ like life
6. Baptism
7. Know that you are NOt perfect, and you cannot get to heaven by goodworks, but by faith, However, you have a new life in Christ, Who allows you and gives you strenght to overcome sin!
If you fail to believe or understand, then NO!
1. Realise you are a sinner
2. Believe in Jesus and all that He did for You
3. Ask for forgiveness
4. Repent (which means turn away from sin)
5. Follow Christ, and live a Christ like life
6. Baptism
7. Know that you are NOt perfect, and you cannot get to heaven by goodworks, but by faith, However, you have a new life in Christ, Who allows you and gives you strenght to overcome sin!
If you fail to believe or understand, then NO!
V
vinc
Guest
evanman said:rebazar said:We can sin as much as we want, and still obtain salvation, because Christ died on the cross to atone for the sins of all mankind. There is no need to repent because Christ already paid for our sins !!!
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Sadly this is the atitude of many christians!
When i came to Christ and was born of the Spirit I had never even read Psalm 51.
No it is not necessary to understand Psalm 51. It is necesary to believe in the Lord jesus Christ, as the scripture says,
I totally agree with Evanman. I would also like to add that overcoming all the sins we are slaves to takes a period of time after we make the decision of getting right with God. I think there is nothing like "Instant Sinless Christian".
J
Jay T
Guest
Dee_wwjd said:
What does the Bible define as sin ?
Only by careful Bible study of the gospels (Matthew , Mark, Luke and John) is the life of Christ revealed, by word and action.
"He that [overcometh], the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels", (Revelation 3:5).
If you fail to believe or understand, then NO![/quote:30e47]
J
Jay T
Guest
Can a person get to heaven, having never asked for forgiveness of past sins ?evanman said:
D
Dee_wwjd
Guest
Does it not say somewhere in the bible, that someone who does not know of has never heard of God, is better off and has a better chance than someone who knows God but chooses not to follow HIm....
E
Elijah message
Guest
Dee_wwjd said:
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Luke 12:47-48 in the K.J. might be your answer? But I believe that both are lost in that bottom line thought?
And Vic? Your question pretty much tel's me, at least, that God does not really depend on 'Laodicea' or want & need sick half hearted love of profession alone!
And yes, to [your] thought ( :fadein
with a :wink: of us knowing full well that some will be saved in the kingdom of God without even knowing the 'profession' of Christ that we do. BUT, 'young'in', these same ones will ONLY MAKE IT BY THE 'EVERLASTING COVENANT' [STILL] being re/created in their hearts! (Rom. 2:15) This should tell us 'knowledged increased' ones of these 'last days' that the COVENANT of the Godhead IS THE VERY MORAL FIBER OF THEIR MIND!!! (CHARACTER)
You know, GOD OS LOVE! The first four of the ten is our LOVE IN WORSHIP to Them! and the second six is our LOVING moral duty to our neighbor! That IS the Epistle of Christ, HIS [LETTER]!! 2 Cor. 3:3
Hope that you did not eat toooo much turkey! ---Elijah
PS: I have often wondered why it is so hard for the Sleeping 'Laodicean's' to offer up the Truth that they GOOFED? Hi, Jay T., TURKEY is turkey, even if it is vegetarian! :fadein: