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Can man change Gods Law?

Who said anything about possession? Paul had a devil in his flesh. 2 Cor. 12:7.

So what? Paul was a child of God regardless of that presence.

Did Paul's supposed 'freewill' speak for the presence of evil or that devil in his flesh? Nope. Nor did he extend the possibility of Grace to that devil or excuse the presence of evil from himself.

Satan had his chance to obey. He did not pass the test of obedience to God. He and all the other disobedient angels only got one chance. Adam only got one chance to obey God's command to not eat the forbidden fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. After these sins came immediate consequences. There were no second chances.

2 Corinthians 12:7 (NIV) or because of these surpassingly great revelations. Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.

Either God allowed Paul to have a recurring temptation to sin for him to continue to resist, or else, it was a physical or mental problem that Paul had to deal with his whole life.

Satan forces no person to sin. Satan tempts a person to sin. Very different. We cannot say with a clear conscience, "The devil made me do it."

1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

FREE WILL. We either freely choose to give in to the temptation and sin or else we freely choose to resist the temptation and overcome the temptation to sin.

1 Peter 5:8-10 (ESV) Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 9 Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world. 10 And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.

Peter wasn't Satan nor could Peter be Satan. Satan certainly spoke from Peter though didn't he? Satan also 'entered' Judas.

Peter spoke those words using his own free will. Satan did not speak through Peter against Peter's will. Peter was not possessed. Peter was concerned about Jesus' well-being and did not want to believe that Jesus would have to be crucified. Peter was adverse to the reality that Jesus would have to die.

Yes, Satan entered Judas. But, Judas allowed him entrance because Judas desired money and power more than loyalty to Jesus. Judas made his own choice to sin. Satan did not force him to sin. We are either working with the Holy Spirit to not sin or else we are working with Satan to sin.

1 John 3:24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

Ephesians 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—


Paul not only said he did evil, but that evil was present with him. (Romans 7)

When a person sins, evil is definitely present. :D

RE: "Where there is no law, there can be no sin."

Don't know where you might have been sold that fantasy.

Romans 5:13
(For until the law sin was in the world

The Law exposed the presence of SIN. Still does.

Oops, I goofed. I should have said, "Where there is no law, there is no penalty for sin."

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.



For example: Divorce in the OT was tolerated, but it was not God's original plan for mankind. In fact, Jesus made a point to teach His followers that divorce and remarriage would not be tolerated from then on.

Luke 16:18 “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.

Why then don't you see those tempting evil sin thoughts as sin? Jesus did. Read it in Matt. 5 about adultery and the thought of same. Why provide 'excuses and coverups' for this not being a sin when Jesus said it is sin?

If a person does not freely consent to the sin, it is not accounted to him as sin. If he does his best to stop his thinking about committing adultery, he commits no sin. He should persevere in his resistance until the temptation to sin leaves him and then he has overcome the temptation.

This person Jesus was talking about was indeed sinning in his thoughts if he was enjoying his cerebral fantasy of committing adultery.

However, sinning in his thoughts does not receive the same or greater condemnation than the person who actually literally commits adultery with another person. There are different degrees of sin and corresponding degrees of punishment:

Mark 12:40 who devour widows' houses and for a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation.

Galatians 6:6-8 (ESV) Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches. 7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. 8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.


Why would you extract the tempter from being involved and only blame man? Perhaps that too is a working of the tempter in those claimants not wanting to link the tempter to their own 'mind and heart sin?'

Sin is of the devil. If the thought of adultery is a sin, then it is connected to the tempter, the devil.

We cannot blame Satan for all of our sins. It is true that sin was in the world before man was created, but that is because the evil spirits (demons) were immediately cast down to earth after their sin. They were here on earth before mankind was created. Satan was the first sinner and he was a worse sinner than Adam because of his (Satan's) greater intellect.

Luke 12:48 But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.



Revelation 12:3-5 (ESV) And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. 4 His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it. 5 She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne,


Every believer has 'an evil conscience' that they must be sprinkled from:

Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

We are all 'exercised' in our senses by both good and evil:

Hebrews 5:14
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

You think that temptation is LESS for believers? Ha!

I was freed from my evil conscience that I inherited from Adam when I was baptized. I was sanctified (made holy) through baptism.

Hebrews 10:21-23 (ESV) and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.


I have my own beam to deal with. The specs of others are just that. There is another worker to see. I have no use overlooking the obvious culprit in any of these matters. Those who do overlook the tempter in their theology are missing a pretty big part of the equations. Such equations usually come with statement of 'I am personally exempt' and 'it's always the other people's fault.' Such are instantly shown to not have a full theological deck when the tempter is void in their equations.

enjoy!

smaller

I do not minimize the devil's tempting of man. I also do not minimize man's own sinful desires of his own flesh which the devil may or may not instigate. The devil forces no man to sin. And, God does not allow the devil to tempt man beyond his ability to resist the devil's temptation.


I've exhausted my thoughts on this topic. We will have to agree to disagree on this topic. :)
 
Satan had his chance to obey. He did not pass the test of obedience to God. He and all the other disobedient angels only got one chance. Adam only got one chance to obey God's command to not eat the forbidden fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. After these sins came immediate consequences. There were no second chances.

Yeah.
Either God allowed Paul to have a recurring temptation to sin for him to continue to resist, or else, it was a physical or mental problem that Paul had to deal with his whole life.
Paul said it was a messenger of Satan in his flesh. That would be a devil. Paul also had 'evil present' with him. Not hard to figure out a devil in the flesh is evil present.
Satan forces no person to sin. Satan tempts a person to sin. Very different. We cannot say with a clear conscience, "The devil made me do it."
You are welcome to excuse evil sin thoughts and claim them to be neither sin nor of the tempter. I can't honestly do that.
FREE WILL. We either freely choose to give in to the temptation and sin or else we freely choose to resist the temptation and overcome the temptation to sin.
When your will is able to claim stopping the will of the tempter you let me know, K?
Peter spoke those words using his own free will. Satan did not speak through Peter against Peter's will. Peter was not possessed. Peter was concerned about Jesus' well-being and did not want to believe that Jesus would have to be crucified. Peter was adverse to the reality that Jesus would have to die.
I clearly hear Jesus addressing Satan and Satan obviously spoke from Peter's own lips. Why do you want to blame Peter and ignore Satan?
Yes, Satan entered Judas. But, Judas allowed him entrance because Judas desired money and power more than loyalty to Jesus. Judas made his own choice to sin. Satan did not force him to sin. We are either working with the Holy Spirit to not sin or else we are working with Satan to sin.
Again, Jesus shows us all exactly how this happens:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

The only weird part of any conversation of these matters is that believers don't believe it happens, particularly to them.
Oops, I goofed. I should have said, "Where there is no law, there is no penalty for sin."
Yeah.
For example: Divorce in the OT was tolerated, but it was not God's original plan for mankind. In fact, Jesus made a point to teach His followers that divorce and remarriage would not be tolerated from then on.
Trying to slice the conversation away from the fact that Jesus stated, that the thought of adultery IS commitment of adultery in heart is futile. Jesus set the standard here, not us.
If a person does not freely consent to the sin, it is not accounted to him as sin. If he does his best to stop his thinking about committing adultery, he commits no sin. He should persevere in his resistance until the temptation to sin leaves him and then he has overcome the temptation.
And that would be just a dodge around Jesus' statement of FACT.
This person Jesus was talking about was indeed sinning in his thoughts if he was enjoying his cerebral fantasy of committing adultery.
I don't see a ticker time excuse granted for the thought to become a sin. Perhaps you can point out that particular 'loop hole?'
However, sinning in his thoughts does not receive the same or greater condemnation than the person who actually literally commits adultery with another person. There are different degrees of sin and corresponding degrees of punishment:
Sin is sin, the penalty thereof, DEATH. Pretty simple.
We cannot blame Satan for all of our sins.
Why wouldn't you see sins of the tempter as sins? Why 'excuse' the tempter? Why cover up his sins via sin/evil thought insertions? I see no need for that methodology whatsoever.
It is true that sin was in the world before man was created, but that is because the evil spirits (demons) were immediately cast down to earth after their sin. They were here on earth before mankind was created. Satan was the first sinner and he was a worse sinner than Adam because of his (Satan's) greater intellect.
There is no reason not to see the events with Adam and Eve in the light of Jesus Statements of FACT on this matter. Where The Word was sown, SATAN entered and stole from them both, deceived them, confused them etc. There can be no logic applied to separate 'their sin' from being 'of the devil.' Trying to see only Adam is pretty futile in the light of Jesus' Words.
I was freed from my evil conscience that I inherited from Adam when I was baptized. I was sanctified (made holy) through baptism.
Looks pretty clear to me from the scriptures that our senses are exercised by evil and that we have an evil conscience to be sprinkled of.

If you claim is that you are now free of temptation via the tempter or that those evil/sin thoughts are not sin, the truth of that statement can only be measured by you. I can not make such claims for myself because it would be dishonest to do so. Jesus didn't teach me to lie.
I do not minimize the devil's tempting of man.
Of course you do. You excuse such evil sin thoughts as being sin and therefore forgive the tempter for doing so. I find no such measures available for the tempter, period.
I also do not minimize man's own sinful desires of his own flesh which the devil may or may not instigate. The devil forces no man to sin. And, God does not allow the devil to tempt man beyond his ability to resist the devil's temptation.
You can blame yourself all you want but the fact of scripture remains that 'sin is of the devil.' There is no logical way to extricate the tempter from the equations of SIN.
I've exhausted my thoughts on this topic. We will have to agree to disagree on this topic.
I enjoy factual and truthful conversations that are honest to scriptural disclosures.

enjoy!

s
 
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