Can one be homosexual and saved?

[Lance_Iguana]

there's no condemnation to them in christ, however, after praying i will expound on what i learn from jesus,

one can't be a celibate lbgt and be in christ, if one has no desire for a woman or man, the natural intent of the lord is heterosexuality,

There is no scripture backing that up. there is only about 5 scripture the even talks about Male on male sex acts. All of which have been argued by scholars for decades as to what the passages actually mean. Leviticus is only old testament passage that even mentions this, and some forms of Judaism claim that this isn't a passage demeaning homosexual sex, but adulterers that already either have Female wives, or are using male prostitutes.

but some are made into eunichs by man or God. if you a celibate lbgt then i find it strange that dont ask the Lord to take the desires from you(change you) to a heterosexual or be a enich unto the Lord,

This is a personal thing. Why should a person change to fit a more socially acceptable norm, when this world isn't even permanent? Why should a person force themselves to have feelings they didn't have in the first place? I think made a big point about not lying to yourself and not changing yourself to fit other's demands

if lbgt is God's plan then why wouldn't a marriage relationship be ordained by God, the God we serve wouldn't turture us like that( be lbgt all you want just no sex or any thing leading to the act or temptaition or think it but don't do it.

Questioning God's will is a sin, just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't serve a purpose. Heck marriage in itself was a simple procedure, the ceremony was created long after men and women where breeding with each other in Genesis. According to Genesis, all you had to do to marry a person was have sex with them. Worked for Abraham, Isac, Cain, Adam, Noah, Hem, Esau, Ishmael, Jacob and his multiple wives, etc.

more to follow after church and prayer

jason

May your God Bless you. :D

 

[jasoncran]

no, it's illogical to think being a celibate gay is ok , i have been like you , i wanted to happy and be fulfilled (who doesn't) but the laws of god is for our good, i look to them as the lord's don't to those things save you hurt and do's those things as blessings, jesus is able to change our nature and he gives the strength to do his will, and save us.

think about this lance, since you struggle with this

first mods i'm not condoning his lifestyle at all but making a point

you meet a man that you really like and he feels the same way about you

you eventually fall in love, you live together or marry (depending what state you live in)

these to you are natural, but the word of god says no sex, no touching so you two either ignore that and do the deeds or decide to stay celibate and never allow the full sharing of feelings

is that torture to you if you have the love of christ in you and want to be celibate? the Lord wants no one to be grievous while doing his will, if you think that is ok with jesus, how can you he's no author of confusion he's clear, think about that which you say . its ok to lbgt but no touch, sex or other, sex in holy matrimony(heterosex is good and God blesses it.)

to be blunt and in the love of jesus you are maniupalting the word of god for your desires to be justified instead try to repent and be saved, it's that easy seek God to change. let the lord change you.

Just to tell you this it was about disgusting for me to describe the above gay meeting and growing close(no offense) to you. That's how much Jesus changes.

thanks for listening and i'm honored that you blessed me for praying.

jason

 

[Lance_Iguana]

no, it's illogical to think being a celibate gay is ok , i have been like you , i wanted to happy and be fulfilled (who doesn't) but the laws of god is for our good, i look to them as the lord's don't to those things save you hurt and do's those things as blessings, jesus is able to change our nature and he gives the strength to do his will, and save us.

You have yet to provide me with any scripture that supports your stance. I'm also getting tired of people telling me to change, and all my hurt will go away. As I've said before, I was hurt trying to change more then when I was just being who I was. I'm getting sick of people trying to convince me how much better life will be when I change. To be honest I think most people wanting me to "change" are just plain out uncomfortable that I'm different, and they can't understand something as insignificant as my ability to love a person of the same gender.

think about this lance, since you struggle with this

first mods i'm not condoning his lifestyle at all but making a point

you meet a man that you really like and he feels the same way about you

you eventually fall in love, you live together or marry (depending what state you live in)

these to you are natural, but the word of god says no sex, no touching so you two either ignore that and do the deeds or decide to stay celibate and never allow the full sharing of feelings

is that torture to you if you have the love of christ in you and want to be celibate? the Lord wants no one to be grievous while doing his will, if you think that is ok with jesus, how can you he's no author of confusion he's clear, think about that which you say . its ok to lbgt but no touch, sex or other, sex in holy matrimony(heterosex is good and God blesses it.)

Nice appeal to emotion fallacy. I'm an agnostic theist. I'm not bound by any morality laws of the Christian religion. What me and a boyfriend do behind closed doors is our business. The whole "God not wanting us to be Like this" argument is easy to shoot holes through once you realize that there are a ton of things we don't understand why God dose what he dose.

Examples - Those born disabled in anyway, those born deformed, those who are born inter sexed, Those with mental problems such as schizophrenia or other paranoia disorders, those who are born mentally deficient, those born the socially wrong skin color, those born into families that abuse, molest, cast them out. Those born with GID or any gender disorder.

To be honest God dose allot of things that, if we looked at logically, are outright cruel. Homosexuality/ not being able to have sex is by no means the cruelest things done by God, just to prove a point. Look at Job for a prime example of God being a sadistic being just to prove a point.

to be blunt and in the love of jesus you are maniupalting the word of god for your desires to be justified instead try to repent and be saved, it's that easy seek God to change. let the lord change you.

Just to tell you this it was about disgusting for me to describe the above gay meeting and growing close(no offense) to you. That's how much Jesus changes.
thanks for listening and I'm honored that you blessed me for praying.

jason

I know It may come off at times that I'm a little hostile, but I have nothing against anyone here. I'm here for discussion I couldn't get on boards that would agree with me without question.

I just think that its kind of odd that a forum had to post a direct sticky saying " NO Promotion of Homosexuality" that I noticed after I had already joined and posted. Its things like that that almost completely confirms that Straight people obsess more about gay sex, then those actually having Gay Sex.

As for the bolded, there are no scriptures that I am aware of that says I can't love someone of the same Gender, or have feelings for them. If sexuality by itself was a sin, then Heterosexuality is also a sin. Thats right everyone but A sexuals are all continuously sinning because they are sexually attracted to someone, and will be continuously sinning until they die in this fashion.

Yet I don't see any camps, centers, blogs, etc. trying to make all Christians A Sexual.

I also highly doubt Jesus would instill anger or hate in you for your past life. Sounds more like your repressed past memories have caused you to develop an obsessive mania. You are mad at yourself for what you used to be, so you lash out at those that remind you of what you used to be. Accept who you used to be and be happy with who you are now. That is the only way to deal with past trauma.

If Jesus changed you, then awesome, but I highly doubt he instilled anger and hate into you. That last bit sounds more like a personal problem/ repression of trauma.

 

[Fembot]

Iguana,
God is going to love you no matter what. So focus on the positive not arguing with judgmental people.

 

[jasoncran]

if a mistake you did cost a person life or yourself and you see someone else making that mistake would not warn them. you and can not give blood for the rest of our lives, or donate organs, think about that one.
that's per fda, sin has cost me, surely those were alcoholics that have friends who starting drinking at a young age would tell them about that danger.

lance_iguana you may choose to live your life as you wish, but don't expect god to bless that decision if its against his laws. That applies to me and you, for god is not mocked whatsover you plant that shall ye reap.

Fembot, is it judgmental for me to call out sin when i see it by using the word of god, i prayed to make sure my heart was right in this matter and that no partiality toward the sin of lbgt is shown, i saw a dispostion in my heart to label one sin worse than other and was going to address that all sin leads to death, and only the Lord knows that if a person comes to Christ and is struggling with lbgt and he/she is weak and falls and repents is truly saved

i desire that no one person is justified in staying lbgt and using the ole excuse i dont have the ability to change so lets keep doing it, and or god made that way and it must be ok. That excuse applies to other sins/shortcomings and at times i have been guilty of that as well, and we all have that pet sin.

God is able to change us on his timing as frustrating as that is a times.

the lord will judge us all not man, i have fasted for lance_iguana salvation and i'm not saying that to beat my chest but to show that i'm concerned for his soul

link on giving blood
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18827137/
jason

 

[shad]

Jason,

what is lbgt ?

BTW, no, you are not judgmental.

thanks

 

[NooneSpecial]

Whew....if only there were such a thing as internet air conditioning. Could sure use it here to cool us all off.

 

[Sparkey]

I agree with this. I find it hard to talk to people about this subject. Of course the stereotypical gay lifestyle is against the teaching of Christianity. Random sex with strangers of either orientation is against the teachings of sexual morality and lust.

Things that aren't though. A person can still love another person of the same sex, and be with them. Sex isn't an entire point of a relationship. You can be celibate, its just finding a partner that is willing to be celibate as well.

I don't see how that is against God's will. Since all the passages in the Bible only condemn the sex acts. Even that is really up for grabs, especially since there are scholars that have shown Corinthians was a mistranslation of Sexual man servants and their Masters, Romans was about idolaters, and Leviticus is an adultery law.

Lance? I'm single at the moment.
Do you mean to tell me that you and I could be EUNUCH's together? :nag I really doubt that you'd want to live with a so-called "partner" like me. Why not? Little children, let us not choose to deceive ourselves?

Homosexual sin isn't any special type of sexual sin. If two PEOPLE - not talking about any kind of "special sauce" people - just two regular people - gender unspecified for both --->> call them Person A and Person B --->> if they said that they were not sexually attracted to each other then why do they need to form a marital partnership of any kind? Speaking in general: we can see that there are two reasons for most everything we do: the stated reason(s) and the real.

Let's just talk about Male to Female sexuality for a second. Let's talk about Two single people who are strongly desirous to live together - but they say, "We don't have any sexual feelings (at least that's what they say)"??? There is something fishy here. I wasn't born yesterday. [Insert Trite Saying #3 <Here>] Why not stay single? Is single the new sin? Is Homosexual a special type of sexual? Let's face it:

Little children, be ye not confused. Those who seek to do evil are getting tempted. The temptation is pulling against something inside them. If there were no inner spiritual "handle" to turn them away? They could not truly be tempted.

Those who desire to fornicate are fornicators. Doesn't matter the flavor. Hetro (is that how you say it?) fornicators aren't any more holy or sinful than the any other flavor of fornicator. A Male Christian who covets another mans wife is guilty of adultery and because he is putting his desire before God Himself? He is also guilty of Idolatry.

Again, there is no "special sauce flavor" of sexual sin nor sexual desire.

Now if the question that is being asked changes a bit...
Let's vague it up a little more - let it be "lust" itself that we consider.
Lust comes in two flavors, right? The lust of the eye and the lust of the flesh.
Sexual sin is the "lust of the flesh" -- but the lust of the eye is also evil.
We who love to look at and strongly desire a certain flavor of automobile are now pulled into the conversation. This is as much as a lustful sin as any other. Holy is Holy. Lust is Lust.

Let's now get out our EVEN scales of balance.
We are speaking of an ABOMINATION here.
Take your fingers and thumbs and any other "sneaky Parts" off the scale!
We must have scales that are even and true. Elsewise we are not fit either. And we can't be fit together. Shhhh.... I'm speaking of <sacred> things.

The person with unrepentant sexual sin is as sinful as the person with a "lust of the eye" attraction. It is the pulling and the attraction away from GOD that is evil. Not the object. Look around you. Is not all creation assigned a time of passing? Are the things seen eternal? Or is it that the things unseen (Faith and Hope and Love and Longsuffering and Wisdom and Kindness) are eternal.

John 14:30 "Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me."

The MacroScope view shows the truth of this - where the MicroScope view allows the deception. We need to dial out to our God-Trust perspective every once in awhile, y?

It is a strong desire <lust> that pulls away from our upright walk before God.
This strong desire is the author of the fights and bickerings amongst us.
We are told to earnestly and passionately love the brethren.

I am Sparrowhawke and I am the friend of Lance_Iguana. I am Known of God and here for a reason. It is my firm belief that this friendship that is tender and in the formative stage is pure and holy and true and it is my strong desire before the Lord God, our Holy God that this relationship is blessed and continues. Lance, you're welcome in my camp. Period. So is Jason and even sheshisown & others too!

Today it's not about kicking out. It's about inviting in. And you're welcome to stay in my camp as you ponder and consider your options. Call to me if you need or like and I will fly to you.

Love? - YES!! Love! Well, maybe - ideally it flows (is exchanged) on a two way street, yes?
The Spirit and the Bride say: COME!

~Sparrowhawke

• Pro 8:7 For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips. [/*:m:9c3t8drx]
• Pro 12:22 Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight. [/*:m:9c3t8drx]
• Pro 13:19 The desire accomplished is sweet to the soul: but it is abomination to fools to depart from evil. [/*:m:9c3t8drx]

Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?
Divers weights, and divers measures, both of them are alike abomination to the LORD.
Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

Jason,

what is lbgt ?

BTW, no, you are not judgmental.

thanks

LGBT
stands for the Lesbien Gay Bisexual Transgender/those with Gender Identity disorder community. The acronym came about shortly after the Stonewall rot of 1969 when community of the sexually queer baned together to fight oppression.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

if a mistake you did cost a person life or yourself and you see someone else making that mistake would not warn them. you and can not give blood for the rest of our lives, or donate organs, think about that one.
that's per fda, sin has cost me, surely those were alcoholics that have friends who starting drinking at a young age would tell them about that danger.

lance_iguana you may choose to live your life as you wish, but don't expect god to bless that decision if its against his laws. That applies to me and you, for god is not mocked whatsoever you plant that shall ye reap.

Jason please provide the scripture to back up what you are saying. The part about giving blood is more reason to change the law, then go through the hassle of changing my orientation. You don't even know my lifestyle, yet you are telling me God doesn't approve.

If God actually says what you are saying, its one thing, but unless you can show me scripture the says I have to Change, not that just certain activities are bad, you might make a point.

Just telling me its bad over and over isn't proving your statement.

 

[jasoncran]

if a mistake you did cost a person life or yourself and you see someone else making that mistake would not warn them. you and can not give blood for the rest of our lives, or donate organs, think about that one.
that's per fda, sin has cost me, surely those were alcoholics that have friends who starting drinking at a young age would tell them about that danger.

lance_iguana you may choose to live your life as you wish, but don't expect god to bless that decision if its against his laws. That applies to me and you, for god is not mocked whatsoever you plant that shall ye reap.

Jason please provide the scripture to back up what you are saying. The part about giving blood is more reason to change the law, then go through the hassle of changing my orientation. You don't even know my lifestyle, yet you are telling me God doesn't approve.

If God actually says what you are saying, its one thing, but unless you can show me scripture the says I have to Change, not that just certain activities are bad, you might make a point.

Just telling me its bad over and over isn't proving your statement.

see romans 1:26 for this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their woman did change the natural use into that which is against nature, vs 27 now and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that wich unseemly, and recieving themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

those verse address the gentile or any person who refuses to believe in God despite that he has revealed himself to them, and he has, it then becomes a matter of time for sometime of sin, if no repentance, that those get involved, not necessarily the lbgt lifesyle, in worse sins , see romans 1:18 to 25, and 28 to 32

more verses on that lifestyle 18:22 thou shall not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination(also can be translated as sin)
i believe that law while doesnt exactly say lesbian but i use common sense here with that one

on being a transgender, deutermony 22: 5 the woman shall not wear that wich pertaineth unto a man,neither shall a man out on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the lord

now i don't think the lord means that a woman shouldnt wear jeans or other male clothing but it pertains to those that believe that they are"born" the other sex whithout the parts for it

when jesus died on the cross he died in our place and fulfilled the law and not to destroy it.
that relates now because of what he said all that law hangs on the first two commandments, if god hates sin why we are now redeemed and have liberty from the bondage of the law(ie subjected to it and found guilty) should we sin again cause the lord grief on his commandments, the law is for telling sin what is not to redeem us, jesus does that, how can we know we need a saviour without being told that were in sin a not right with god

now then at a point in a person life young or old one must choose to serve the lord or reject him, can a child at age 6 or younger do that, yes i believe that's possible, sound's harsh but its not, the lord is sovereign.

now on to one more verse then i'm done galations 6:7 Be not decieved; God is not mocked for whatsover a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

all people know this verse different way what goes around comes around,
if i sow sin i will reap it, no different for anyone. God's not mocked when we think we are fooling him we are lying to ourselves.

I want you,lance, to understand this i dont hate you and still hold out a hand of friendship, but i have to say what i've said. your right i dont know you but you came here and said you're gay, what did you expect that we bible believing christian say that's ok and that we accept you without any questions, ignoring the call of christ and what the bible says. yes we should say that in love, and humility and i have crossed the line their i'm sorry but the bible says what it says


i wont bring this up again as i believe you aren't ready to change and will pray continously for you

jason

 

[Sparkey]

Can one homosexual be saved?

Sparrow, feeling ignored, jumps up and down.

Hey! Awwwk! Does I gets any agreement to my previous post? Huh? Does I? Huh?
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=39395&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p475971

 

[shad]

Jason,

Lance is saying he decided to stay celibate, what is wrong with that? I really dont understand why you are objecting his position.

 

[Free]

Yes, someone can have same-sex attraction and still be saved. Homosexual acts are sin, whether engaged in by those with either a homosexual or heterosexual orientation.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

if a mistake you did cost a person life or yourself and you see someone else making that mistake would not warn them. you and can not give blood for the rest of our lives, or donate organs, think about that one.
that's per fda, sin has cost me, surely those were alcoholics that have friends who starting drinking at a young age would tell them about that danger.

lance_iguana you may choose to live your life as you wish, but don't expect god to bless that decision if its against his laws. That applies to me and you, for god is not mocked whatsoever you plant that shall ye reap.

Jason please provide the scripture to back up what you are saying. The part about giving blood is more reason to change the law, then go through the hassle of changing my orientation. You don't even know my lifestyle, yet you are telling me God doesn't approve.

If God actually says what you are saying, its one thing, but unless you can show me scripture the says I have to Change, not that just certain activities are bad, you might make a point.

Just telling me its bad over and over isn't proving your statement.

see romans 1:26 for this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their woman did change the natural use into that which is against nature, vs 27 now and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that wich unseemly, and recieving themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

those verse address the gentile or any person who refuses to believe in God despite that he has revealed himself to them, and he has, it then becomes a matter of time for sometime of sin, if no repentance, that those get involved, not necessarily the lbgt lifesyle, in worse sins , see romans 1:18 to 25, and 28 to 32

more verses on that lifestyle 18:22 thou shall not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination(also can be translated as sin)
i believe that law while doesnt exactly say lesbian but i use common sense here with that one

on being a transgender, deutermony 22: 5 the woman shall not wear that wich pertaineth unto a man,neither shall a man out on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the lord

now i don't think the lord means that a woman shouldn't wear jeans or other male clothing but it pertains to those that believe that they are"born" the other sex without the parts for it

Ok first, Romans says noting about attractions, it actually clearly sates "lusts" whats even crueler, it says God made them lust after the same gender. I also have read the entirety of Romans, want to know what that chapter means in context? Its Romans 1 was about Paul describing what happened when he saw the Idol worshipers. He described and orgy, and how people where having sex with whatever, even with the same gender. Historically speaking the idol was probably the Roman god of fertility, which was worshiped by ritualistic mass orgies. The part you mentioned was when Paul was stating that these people claimed to be Christians, but then worshiped a false idol, and God condemned them.

For Trans gendered, GID is a legitimate disorder, it can be anywhere from a slight twitch to completely life hindering. The actual treatment is to make the person feel as close to the gender in their head as possible. Those with GID aren't pretending to be the opposite sex, they actually think/believe they are the opposite sex.

Did you read over the part in my posts where I mentioned that not even the Jews (who actually fallow all of Levitican Law) don't even believe that passage is about Gay sex. Its about Adultery. I would like to also add that I own 2 Bibles and am reading through a Bible (Thanks Sparrowhawk ;)) that predates Modern Translations from the 50's onwards. Did you know that "as with woman Kind" is a modern adaptation, and that the Word homosexual doesn't appear in Bibles until the 50s. Before that Corinthians and Romans read as " Those who harm themselves and Effeminates". Kind of interesting.

 

[jasoncran]

Re: Can one homosexual be saved?

Sparrow, feeling ignored, jumps up and down.

Hey! Awwwk! Does I gets any agreement to my previous post? Huh? Does I? Huh?
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=39395&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p475971

i liked it and we reread as i only glanced at it. to answer shad so if a christians is married and looks at porn and only masterbates is that not sin as well, think about what you said, god can only judge lance, i'm not i'm only showing you why i believe its wrong think about logically if god ordained the that being gay is ok would he not specify when it's ok ie like sex in a marriage, but its(sex)judged when premarital and post marital(adultery)

lance , modern day jews are the most liberal hedonistic people today, i'm hebrew myself , i never met a true following hebrew of the torah, think about how can they do that, animal scarifice, the day of atonement is for acknowleding sin not to think about the good you did and do to less evil, yom kippur points to the cross. yes, there are some consertative jews out there, but that's rare. every jewish american i've met is a democrat,gay rights believing, my family on my dad side is like that. no, i'm not anti-semtic.

lance, you have justified yourself and if you truly beleive that it's ok, than why are you asking us bible believing christians?

peace out, jason

 

[jasoncran]

the bible i quote from is a kjv, not any newer version, i have one from the 1960's as well, and will see that as well.

no, modern hebrews dont follow the law( if they did then all would be kosher, many aren't and what about those animals sacrifices for sin, no there as well, the feast no, thats just the orthodox side, not counting the unorthodox or those call themselves jewish cause they have of the semitic gene pool. i wasn't raised in the temple, but my dad was and hated that stuff, my grandparents followed it as well, but were orthodox.

are you looking to the greek,aramaic,hebrew languages or are you looking at english only translations.

now i'm finished

jason

 

[shad]

the bible i quote from is a kjv, not any newer version, i have one from the 1960's as well, and will see that as well.

no, modern hebrews dont follow the law( if they did then all would be kosher, many aren't and what about those animals sacrifices for sin, no there as well, the feast no, thats just the orthodox side, not counting the unorthodox or those call themselves jewish cause they have of the semitic gene pool. i wasn't raised in the temple, but my dad was and hated that stuff, my grandparents followed it as well, but were orthodox.

are you looking to the greek,aramaic,hebrew languages or are you looking at english only translations.

now i'm finished

jason

Jason, did you read my post to you? Would you reply please? I think you are totally being unfair to Lance who decided to be celibate. I actually believe he is a good testimony for homosexuals.

 

[Sparkey]

Can the plague in the House of God ever be stopped?

Where is Phineas when we want him?
Do we want the plague that has broken out in the House of God???
What is the First mention of the Covenant of Peace?

Given to those with an ear to hear: Sparrow removes his hand from the spear he has taken up, looks around him and blesses God for the Holy Spirit that teaches all things. In the Name, he says. In the Name and by the Spirit. Quickly Lord - by you alone. This is an holy.

~Sparrow

Num 25:5 And Moses said unto the judges of Israel, Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto Baalpeor.

 

[francisdesales]

The bible does indeed teach that engaging in sex with persons of the same sex is sin, just as it is sinful for an unmarried person to engage in sex with someone. So, the question really becomes,

Can a person willfully and repeatedly continue on in a sinful activity and be saved?

I think this question can be answered no matter which side of the OSAS debate one is on.

If one believes that a truly saved person can never lose salvation, and yet is continuing on in something that is willful sin, then I would say that the person truly needs to examine their faith, their belief and their confession of sin and repentance.

If one believes that a truly saved person can lose salvation, and yet is continuing on in something that is willful sin, then I would say that the person truly needs to examine their faith, their belief and their confession of sin and repentance.

In either case, no matter if one believes in OSAS or in losing one's salvation, and whether or not the sin happens to be homosexual sex or something else, if one is willfully and repeatedly engaging in sin, one has a problem that needs to be addressed.

Well done...

Regards