Can We Obey God and also Vote for a Woman?

[eddif]

Since when does the bible itself need more than one "witness?"

"2 or 3 witnesses" were for accusations against someone.

1 Corinthians 9:2 kjv
2. If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.
3. Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,
4. Have we not power to eat and to drink?
5. Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
6. Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?
7. Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
8. Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
9. For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10. Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

This discussion is why I respect the Law so much, the law says the same thing as the New Testament.

Provide for a good preacher is the same concept as:
providing for an ox treading out the corn.
Providing for plowman
Providing for thresher
Soldier is paid / fed
Vineyard worker eats grapes

The Bible may not need a 2nd witness necessarily but it often provides multiple contexts that support a single concept.

The parable of the sower:
compares seed as the Word of God
Compares ground as men’s heart
Mentions sower ( preacher today?)

The OT is active in having placed shadows of things to come.

The Jew had advantage in all things.
Romans 3

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

DDW,

Luke 1:2 (NIV) notes "those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word." Were they more than one "witness"?

Oz

I agree with the post.Multiple people can agree.

The problem arises when a group of 500,000 agree on a false doctrine.
……
Creation can agree. The parable of the sower.
Evolution is upside down LOL
Things created as very good, went downward rather than upward. Is that Devolution? LOL
……
Pre Law pretty much agrees with the rest of the Bible concepts. Contexts are different but higher order concepts are similar IMHO
..,,,
Some other things I see are probably opinions at this time. When I can find multiple witnesses……

eddif

 

[OzSpen]

Oz, apparently I sadly mistook you for being more biblically literate than you are.

Please explain.

 

[Northman]

To the OP, no.
Those mentioning names like Deborah already know that she had absolutely no power to create or modify laws, or at least they should know.

 

[eddif]

To the OP, no.
Those mentioning names like Deborah already know that she had absolutely no power to create or modify laws, or at least they should know.

Judges 4:8 kjv
8. And Barak said to her, “If you will go with me, then I will go; but if you will not go with me, I will not go!”
9. And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour; for the LORD shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.

eddif

 

[Who Me]

Is the USA more godly today than it was 100 years ago?

Irrelevent, how does one judge odleness in a society?
It is nearly impossible to judge in another person one knows, let alone in an unknown society. ( unknown in that we do not live in that time period and do not know it. )

Voting for a women, no one forces one to vote for anyone, but what if a woman is appointed as your boss, team leader, supervisor, manager etc etc or is ellected by others as your representative?

How do you respond?

 

[D-D-W]

Please explain.

I thought the difference between the 2 would have been obvious to you.

 

[eddif]

The OP was based on an Isaiah passage.
Jerusalem was about to be destroyed.
Israel was not going to avoid judgement for sins.

Who are these bad women?

If you go back to the book of Judges you can actually read who they were and how they came to power.

The answer:
The men of Israel looked at the pagan women and took them for wives. Then these fine men joined them in idol worship. These fine Jewish men gave the Jewish daughters to pagan men as wives.

IMHO the lust of the men was the root of the problem. Deborah (as an example) was not the problem. Barak was not man enough to go into battle alone. He would go into battle if Deborah would go with him. Deborah warned Barak that he was giving his male position to a female.

Leap back to Isaiah. Israel had arrived at the place that 400 years of destruction would be on Jerusalem.
Good guys would go into dispersion
Jesus would come
Pentecost would come
Sons and daughters would prophesy

We do not fight against flesh and blood now.
We fight against principalities and powers.


We do not fight against flesh and blood. We fight against the powers in outer darkness, that try and use flesh and blood for evil purposes.

The last chapter of Romans has good men and good women acknowledged, for their service in the gospel presentation / work.

In the natural there are differences, but somehow in Christ Jesus there is no difference.

Have I got it all together (no sin)? No.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Northman]

Judges 4:8 kjv
8. And Barak said to her, “If you will go with me, then I will go; but if you will not go with me, I will not go!”
9. And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour; for the LORD shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.

eddif

I think you responded to the wrong person

 

[Eddie42]

I had decided to not write any more replies on this thread, but something unusual is said about the Barak/Deborah event I wish to mention. In the hall of faith listed in Hebrews, it is Barak who is there, not Deborah.

"And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:" (Heb 11:32, KJV)

But, to get back to my original post, I am obligated to obey the "commands" of Jesus as given through the apostles. I see NO command putting women in the lead, in the rule, or such in the New Testament church or elsewhere. I do see commands forbidding such. Now, in an age of extra-ordinary offices and gifts that do/did not continue down through the centuries but ended; how can a narrative in such a time period overturn the COMMANDS? I have no doubt on that. But, that leaves me with a dilemma.

Suppose after I vote in the primaries and then on election day; a woman runs who is in align with my social and political beliefs and she is opposed by a man who is a baby killer, Marxist, liar, etc? How am I going to vote. I may have to end up sitting it out; or, holding my nose and voting for the woman; and leave the results to God's decreed result. I do watch several conservative talk shows and Steve Bannon's War Room is one, but it seems women are so very prominent on that show I am concerned the conservative, biblical world view is not going to last in the USA. The Almighty did not seem to approve of women in the rule in ancient Israel, Isa. 3:12 so in light of the commands in the NT will he be approving it in this day? I still believe not.

 

[jaybo]

I had decided to not write any more replies on this thread, but something unusual is said about the Barak/Deborah event I wish to mention. In the hall of faith listed in Hebrews, it is Barak who is there, not Deborah.

"And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:" (Heb 11:32, KJV)

But, to get back to my original post, I am obligated to obey the "commands" of Jesus as given through the apostles. I see NO command putting women in the lead, in the rule, or such in the New Testament church or elsewhere. I do see commands forbidding such. Now, in an age of extra-ordinary offices and gifts that do/did not continue down through the centuries but ended; how can a narrative in such a time period overturn the COMMANDS? I have no doubt on that. But, that leaves me with a dilemma.

Suppose after I vote in the primaries and then on election day; a woman runs who is in align with my social and political beliefs and she is opposed by a man who is a baby killer, Marxist, liar, etc? How am I going to vote. I may have to end up sitting it out; or, holding my nose and voting for the woman; and leave the results to God's decreed result. I do watch several conservative talk shows and Steve Bannon's War Room is one, but it seems women are so very prominent on that show I am concerned the conservative, biblical world view is not going to last in the USA. The Almighty did not seem to approve of women in the rule in ancient Israel, Isa. 3:12 so in light of the commands in the NT will he be approving it in this day? I still believe not.

There is no sound reason not to vote for a woman in the 21st Century. We are not living in the socioeconomic conditions of the Biblical era when women from teenage years onward were uneducated, illiterate "homemakers". Women can perform every function in this society, except perhaps tasks requiring extraordinary physical strength. There are women serving exceptionally well in all strata of government, from local town clerks all the way to the US Supreme Court.

Your citing of Isaiah 3:12 is confusing...

"Oppressors treat my people cruelly;
creditors rule over them.
My people, your leaders mislead you;
they give you confusing directions." (NET 2.1)

 

[evenifigoalone]

As a woman who will most likely never marry just cause I lack any interest in marriage or sex.....I got some things to say.

There's a lot to unpack here, but if anyone's interested and willing to spend a few hours reading, these articles by a Bible scholar are very insightful:

https://www.christianthinktank.com/femalex.html

Women in Jewish culture were seen and treated as lesser. I don't think that's God's perfect will. Jesus and even Paul both actually treated women with much more dignity.

I have no real interest in being spoken down to or in debating my own rights, so I'll leave this post here and make it my last on the subject.

 

[eddif]

I had decided to not write any more replies on this thread, but something unusual is said about the Barak/Deborah event I wish to mention. In the hall of faith listed in Hebrews, it is Barak who is there, not Deborah.

Hebrews 11:11 kjv
11. Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
31. By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.

eddif