Can you remit sins , John 20:19-23 ????

[dan p]

Hi to all , and many believers feel that Jesus words are more important than either Peter or Paul's , even when they have written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit .

Let's look at what John 20:19 is telling us .

#1 , what is the CONTEXT , in verse 19 ???? Historically , timewise , the earthly ministry of Jesus !!!

#2 , He is talking to His disciples in verse 19 , after His reserrection !!!

#3 , A nd than proves to them that it is He in verse 20 !!!

#4 , But , here is a Commission before the so-called Great Commssion of Matt 28:19 !!!!

#5 , Then in verse 22 , He breaths on them and saith unto them , Receive ye { the } Holy Spirit !!!!

#6 , Please notice that the word { the } in these brackets is supplied , and is NOT in the Greek Text !!!! Look it up !!!!!

#7 , It is very important and has MUCH significance , and it means that the disciple Recieved the POWER of the Holy Spirit !!!

#8 , Notice that this is BEFORE the Day of Pentecost !!!!!

#9 , Now look at what the POWER is all about ????

#10 , In verse 23 , " Whosoever Sins ye Remit , they are remitted unto them ; and whose soever Sins ye retain , they are Retained !!!!

#11 , Can man remit sins ???

#12 , How did the disciples remit Sins ????

#13 , Remit Sins to Jews Only ???

#14 , If to Gentiles , where is that Context ???

#15 , I do not see where there are Assemblies , that quote this verse and then say that they can Remit sins .

What say YOU ?????

 

[ronniechoate34]

I don't say anything. I do however have an answer for you if you care to take a look at it.


Lu:24:46: And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Lu:24:47: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Lu:24:48: And ye are witnesses of these things.


Ac:2:38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Ac:2:39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


Ac:10:42: And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Ac:10:43: To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Ac:10:44: While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.


Eph:1:3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph:1:4: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph:1:5: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph:1:6: To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph:1:7: In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph:1:8: Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Eph:1:9: Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

 

[dan p]

I don't say anything. I do however have an answer for you if you care to take a look at it.


Lu:24:46: And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Lu:24:47: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Lu:24:48: And ye are witnesses of these things.


Ac:2:38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Ac:2:39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


Ac:10:42: And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Ac:10:43: To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Ac:10:44: While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.


Eph:1:3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph:1:4: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph:1:5: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph:1:6: To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph:1:7: In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph:1:8: Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Eph:1:9: Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Hi ronnie , and all you have written is scripture , but can we remit sins today ?????
And how is it done ????

 

[glorydaz]

Hi ronnie , and all you have written is scripture , but can we remit sins today ?????
And how is it done ????

Interesting question....When Jesus breathed on them the spirit of truth, He commissioned them to preach the truth of the gospel message. A consequence of their preaching would result in the forgiveness of sin through belief in that truth.

Jesus, alone, forgives sin by the blood shed on the cross. By hearing the preaching, men have faith and believe...from that comes the remission of their sins. It isn't the creature that forgives or casts away the sin, but, by preaching the truth the result is forgiveness.

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

 

[Vince]

Interesting question. I had always understood it to mean that anyone we led to Christ on earth, would be recognized as saved in Heaven. We remit sins by bringing sinners to Christ.

I've got to hand it to you, Brother. I've never heard of anyone else ever bringing that up.

 

[Cornelius]

Jhn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit:

Jhn 20:23 whose soever sins ye forgive, they are forgiven unto them; whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.

We have to learn to trust the Word and not try to interpret it. Jesus is speaking to disciples (followers) here. So He is speaking to all who follow Him, as He told them "Go and make disciples of all people..."

This scripture clearly says: If you forgive somebody , they are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven by God as well. That is why its important for Christians to walk in forgiveness.

Sometimes, the body of Christ can use this authority to lock somebody out of the Kingdom is a person is in fellowship with them and living in willing unrepented sin.

It links with this verse, which is also about ALL disciples and not just Peter alone: Mat 16:19 I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Christ IN US, is the One with the authority. Its Jesus IN US, that forgives that person his or her sins.Its Christ IN YOU that has the keys of the kingdom and its Christ in you that bound and loose.

 

[Vince]

I went through e-sword, looking up the verse in Vincent's Word Studies and Strong's Concordance, as well as some translations and commentaries. Most commentaries agree that we remit someone's sins by bringing that person to Christ.

The Greek word "remit" is translated "forgive" in "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors." The Greek word has the idea of sending away or going away yourself. When we remit someone's sins, we send the sins and the person away from each other.

I was surprised by my friend Cornelius's statement that if we refuse to forgive someone who has wronged us, there is a problem with God forgiving him. Sure enough, the Greek word does have the idea of a servant forgiving a debt to the master, and the master had authorized the servant to forgive that debt. I had never heard this before, but IF YOU REFUSE TO FORGIVE YOUR ENEMY, IT CAUSES A PROBLEM BETWEEN GOD AND YOUR ENEMY.

 

[theTruthful]

i would say this is why at the crucifixion of Jesus and at the stoning of Stephen, they both prayed, "Father, lay not this sin to their charge."

i think that if we are to reign with Christ for 1,000 years while Satan is locked up, then we should start learning how to judge people now, shouldnt we?


1 Corinthians 6:1-3

"1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know you not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?"


i agree with that quote that says, "Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate. It is that we are powerful beyond measure." i think God has called us up to such a high place in Christ that many people are afraid of the implications of that. we do it with humility and love, yes. but it is a place of great power all the same.

 

[theTruthful]

double sorry

 

[Cornelius]

I was surprised by my friend Cornelius's statement that if we refuse to forgive someone who has wronged us, there is a problem with God forgiving him. Sure enough, the Greek word does have the idea of a servant forgiving a debt to the master, and the master had authorized the servant to forgive that debt. I had never heard this before, but IF YOU REFUSE TO FORGIVE YOUR ENEMY, IT CAUSES A PROBLEM BETWEEN GOD AND YOUR ENEMY.

Mat 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.


Mat 9:3 And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This [man] blasphemeth.


Mat 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?


Mat 9:5 For whether is easier, to say, [Thy] sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?


Mat 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Today we walk in the same authority as Christ. We are to do what He did.

Christians have real power on this earth. We even have the power to forgive somebody their sins, or to not forgive them. Not a power to abuse , nor do we have the power as individuals to run around forgiving and keeping sins on whom we like. But there are situations that we can forgive people their sins, when they have repented towards God. We can verbally tell them: Your sins are forgiven.

But for instance: If a man is willingly coming into the fellowship and starts seducing the woman in that fellowship, if he calls himself a brother, we can lock him out of fellowship with the body of Christ and we can hand him over to Satan, so that he can learn repentance, so that his soul can be saved. In such a case, the body of believers may indeed NOT forgive him his sins and then God will also not forgive him, until true repentance is done towards God and the body of Christ.

God will not allow us to abuse this power.

 

[Cornelius]

I would not trust commentaries about this The Bible says if we do NOT forgive, they are not forgiven.This has nothing to do with preaching the message of salvation. This has to do with US not forgiving.

Just because this is unacceptable for most people and teachers, does not make it not so in reality. There are many things in the Bible that commentaries would go against.Commentaries are written by men who sometimes do not have a clear understanding , because they in turn were also taught by men of similar doctrine.

C

 

[mutzrein]

I would not trust commentaries about this The Bible says if we do NOT forgive, they are not forgiven.This has nothing to do with preaching the message of salvation. This has to do with US not forgiving.

Just because this is unacceptable for most people and teachers, does not make it not so in reality. There are many things in the Bible that commentaries would go against.Commentaries are written by men who sometimes do not have a clear understanding , because they in turn were also taught by men of similar doctrine.

C

Go Cornie - preach it bro!

 

[Vince]

The Bible teaches us that when we forgive our enemies and do good to them, we heap coals of fire on their heads. I taught Christian school for ten years, and there are parents who will carry their hatred of me to their graves because I made their child write a four-page report for talking in class.

I noticed over time, that when I would forgive parents who launched telephone smear campaigns for revenge, that after I forgave them, God would deal with them. God's chastening, however, was for the parents' own good. It also worked for the good of people who had been influenced by the parents.

Why does God forgive our enemies after we forgive them? Because He brings them to repentance.

 

[dan p]

Jhn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit:

Jhn 20:23 whose soever sins ye forgive, they are forgiven unto them; whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.

We have to learn to trust the Word and not try to interpret it. Jesus is speaking to disciples (followers) here. So He is speaking to all who follow Him, as He told them "Go and make disciples of all people..."

This scripture clearly says: If you forgive somebody , they are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven by God as well. That is why its important for Christians to walk in forgiveness.

Sometimes, the body of Christ can use this authority to lock somebody out of the Kingdom is a person is in fellowship with them and living in willing unrepented sin.

It links with this verse, which is also about ALL disciples and not just Peter alone: Mat 16:19 I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Christ IN US, is the One with the authority. Its Jesus IN US, that forgives that person his or her sins.Its Christ IN YOU that has the keys of the kingdom and its Christ in you that bound and loose.

Hi Cornelius , and how do you see 2 Tim 2:15 , a workman that needeth not to be ashamed , rightly dividing the WORD of Truth .

Then in Phil 1:10 ," In order for you to TEST the things that are DIFFERING , in order that you may br PURE and BLAMELESS for the Day of Christ .

1) The Greek word for " differing " is DIAPHERO , meaning " to carry different ways " to be different from , to differ " .

2) This is the way we glorify our Fater God in our understanding of His ispired Word, and if we do this NOW , the " TEST " in the coming Day of Christ , which is talking about the Rapture , at the Judgment seat of Christ , 1 Cor 3:12-15 .

3) Your quote , " and not try to interpret it " has no meansing in the face of these 2 scripture verses .

#1 , the Context is still Jewish as John aptly says in John 20:19 !!!!

#2 , In the beginning , it was only John the Baptist that was Baptizing ,

#3 , To " remit sins " is to baptize them and make them clean , if they Repent .

#4 , That was John's message in Matt 3:2 !!!!

#5 , For the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand !!!!

#6 , Is this what we in the Body of Christ ARE to look for ????

 

[ronniechoate34]

How about if you believe that someone has done you wrong and they feel that they have not. You feel as if someone needs to beg your forgiveness and they don't. I guess that your judgment will be the deciding factor huh cornelius? Please,,,give us a break.

 

[Vince]

My friend Ronniechoate brings up an interesting problem: What if the person refuses to repent?

I know of one person who would provoke people to anger, and then inform them that she "forgave" them, which only got them angrier. It might be that the person hasn't repented because he feels that he has not done wrong.

And the Bible emphasis is on forgiving someone who repents. But we don't always confess our sins, either. When we pray "forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors," it would be better if we have forgiven everyone who wrongs us.

 

[ronniechoate34]

My friend Ronniechoate brings up an interesting problem: What if the person refuses to repent?

I know of one person who would provoke people to anger, and then inform them that she "forgave" them, which only got them angrier. It might be that the person hasn't repented because he feels that he has not done wrong.

And the Bible emphasis is on forgiving someone who repents. But we don't always confess our sins, either. When we pray "forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors," it would be better if we have forgiven everyone who wrongs us.

I know sometimes it's hard to forgive others but with enough prayer it's a breeze to forgive. Prayers can conquer all things. We can't be forgiven without practicing forgiveness.

 

[Geo]

Did you ever consider what this says exactly? "forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors"

we pray to receive forgiveness AS we forgive others.

If we stay unforgiving - we won't be able to be forgiven. Sobering thought.

 

[unknown2me]

I don't say anything. I do however have an answer for you if you care to take a look at it.


Lu:24:46: And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Lu:24:47: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Lu:24:48: And ye are witnesses of these things.


Ac:2:38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Ac:2:39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


Ac:10:42: And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Ac:10:43: To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Ac:10:44: While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.


Eph:1:3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph:1:4: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph:1:5: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph:1:6: To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph:1:7: In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph:1:8: Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Eph:1:9: Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Your answer does not answer his question.

 

[unknown2me]

Hi ronnie , and all you have written is scripture , but can we remit sins today ?????
And how is it done ????

Interesting question....When Jesus breathed on them the spirit of truth, He commissioned them to preach the truth of the gospel message. A consequence of their preaching would result in the forgiveness of sin through belief in that truth.

Jesus, alone, forgives sin by the blood shed on the cross. By hearing the preaching, men have faith and believe...from that comes the remission of their sins. It isn't the creature that forgives or casts away the sin, but, by preaching the truth the result is forgiveness.
[quote="Hebrews 9:22":282hcxy1] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

[/quote:282hcxy1]

This is not the answer to his question.