Can your church save you?

[Rollo Tamasi]

What Jethro is saying, well, ahem, well, ahem, well, I don't really know.

 

[Classik]

What Jethro is saying, well, ahem, well, ahem, well, I don't really know.

Well. I was confused too

 

[turnorburn]

No Jethro i just meant that there are extenuating circumstances..

tob

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What Jethro is saying, well, ahem, well, ahem, well, I don't really know.

If your church/pastor has no one gifted in bringing people to Christ (IOW, they can't save people), does that mean there is absolutely no possibility for meaningful fellowship? That's what Classik has to consider.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Preach the Gospel and people will be saved.

 

[Classik]

If your church/pastor has no one gifted in bringing people to Christ (IOW, they can't save people), does that mean there is absolutely no possibility for meaningful fellowship? That's what Classik has to consider.

Strange...isn't it. Why staying there then when people see the need for salvation and being saved elsewhere. Other meaningful fellowship is next to nothing, I would say, and of course is close to self-righteousness ...(a waste of time).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Preach the Gospel and people will be saved.

Every struggling church plant wishes this was true.

Evangelism is a gift.

Not everybody has that gift.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Strange...isn't it. Why staying there then when people see the need for salvation and being saved elsewhere. Other meaningful fellowship is next to nothing, I would say, and of course is close to self-righteousness ...(a waste of time).

I'm not going to get into it but you are displaying the common thinking in the church that Christianity is ALL about getting people saved. Like there is nothing to Christianity outside of this one function within the church. For as important and essential as evangelism is it simply is not the only reason the church exists and the only thing the church is to do.

The way churches are run today it really depends on what the major giftings of the pastor are. If he's an evangelist he will have a large, but immature, church. If his gift is more in the lines of Christian teaching his church will likely be a small but dedicated and close knit group of believers. That's why I say it may not necessarily be a bad sign that a church is thriving, but not growing in numbers (able to save as you put it). The way that the church is all about the pastor these days causes it to be like this. It is in this sense that the church follows the pastor.

 

[Obadiah]

I'm not going to get into it but you are displaying the common thinking in the church that Christianity is ALL about getting people saved. Like there is nothing to Christianity outside of this one function within the church. For as important and essential as evangelism is it simply is not the only reason the church exists and the only thing the church is to do.

The way churches are run today it really depends on what the major giftings of the pastor are. If he's an evangelist he will have a large, but immature, church. If his gift is more in the lines of Christian teaching his church will likely be a small but dedicated and close knit group of believers. That's why I say it may not necessarily be a bad sign that a church is thriving, but not growing in numbers (able to save as you put it). The way that the church is all about the pastor these days causes it to be like this. It is in this sense that the church follows the pastor.

Excellent point and this is something I've tried to teach so many church goers as well. The primary way most people interact with their local church body is through the worship service. Worship is intended primarily for giving glory to God and for edification. If someone is saved in a worship service, great. But that's not the primary purpose of worship. This is why those gifted only with evangelism and evangelism related gifts don't generally make real good pastors, and why many churches with pastors who are not particularly gifted in evangelism will use other people to lead that local church's evangelistic efforts.

Salvation is not all about the church and the church is not all about salvation.

 

[jasonc]

why is it that the "church" is so ignorant of the word these days? and well im going to add myself. its one thing to know to do and not do it. that is ignorance in action.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Excellent point and this is something I've tried to teach so many church goers as well. The primary way most people interact with their local church body is through the worship service. Worship is intended primarily for giving glory to God and for edification. If someone is saved in a worship service, great. But that's not the primary purpose of worship. This is why those gifted only with evangelism and evangelism related gifts don't generally make real good pastors, and why many churches with pastors who are not particularly gifted in evangelism will use other people to lead that local church's evangelistic efforts.

Salvation is not all about the church and the church is not all about salvation.

You get it! Praise God.

In Ephesians 4, Paul describes how Evangelists and Pastors are two distinct offices, not the same office. And that it is argued that the passage is actually saying that Pastor/teacher is actually one and the same gift. Teachers are to be the pastors/leaders of our churches who grow believers up to maturity. Evangelists go out into the world and bring the babies into the church to be fed and nurtured and grown up by the pastors/elders .

 

[Jethro Bodine]

why is it that the "church" is so ignorant of the word these days?

IMO, it's because of the pride of various, narrow, self-serving agendas that get exalted above the truth in the church so often these days.

 

[jasonc]

my church doesn't have that problem. nor do the local ministers that I know well. hmm I do know that problem exists, but not seeing it here with the ones I know.

 

[Classik]

I'm not going to get into it but you are displaying the common thinking in the church that Christianity is ALL about getting people saved. Like there is nothing to Christianity outside of this one function within the church. For as important and essential as evangelism is it simply is not the only reason the church exists and the only thing the church is to do.

The way churches are run today it really depends on what the major giftings of the pastor are. If he's an evangelist he will have a large, but immature, church. If his gift is more in the lines of Christian teaching his church will likely be a small but dedicated and close knit group of believers. That's why I say it may not necessarily be a bad sign that a church is thriving, but not growing in numbers (able to save as you put it). The way that the church is all about the pastor these days causes it to be like this. It is in this sense that the church follows the pastor.

My tubular bells friend, I understand what you are trying to say...yet isn't 'being saved' the most important?

 

[for_his_glory]

Do we go to Church for the sake of being in a Church because people say "you need to be in Church" or do we go to Church to be Spiritually fed. Why would I go to a Church that is not meeting my Spiritual needs nor teaches on Salvation and further more they have no clue of what or who the Holy Spirit or grace is all about. I do miss going to a good word Church, but will not settle for one that is Spiritually dead.

 

[brother Paul]

how can they know if they have not heard and how can they hear if they have not been told...the "church" (the genuine believers) carry the message of salvation...and after they hear, some will receive and believe (Ephesians 1:13) and others will reject (Romans 1)...and to as many as receive Him, He gives the power to become the children of God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

My tubular bells friend, I understand what you are trying to say...yet isn't 'being saved' the most important?

I suppose it depends on what you think about OSAS.

I don't know if it's the most important, but I will say getting people saved is the most urgent need.

I would end a Bible study immediately to lead someone to Christ. Immediately.