Catching away

[Vic C.]

The twisting of word meanings...

You really can't define the preposition "from" and ignore the meaning of the verb "keep", which precedes it.

From
Strong's Number: 1537- eÃÂk, ek
a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause)

Definition- 1. out of, from, by, away from

Keep
Strong's Number: 5083-Tereo
from teros (a watch, perhaps akin to (2334)

Definition- 1. to attend to carefully, take care of
a. to guard
b. metaph. to keep, one in the state in which he is
c. to observe
d. to reserve: to undergo something

Here is an easy-to-understand exposition of the verse. My understanding of this verse was confirmed by my Pastor several months ago. He used this verse in a sermon. I questioned him after the service. We sat down and analyzed the sentence structure and meaning of the words. He then came to the same conclusions as I. Anyways...
Excerpt from http://www.geocities.com/~lasttrumpet/rev310.html

It is extremely important to understand that the exact phrase in Rev. 3:10 (tereo...ek) is put in contrast to the idea of removal from the world in John 17:15. In effect Jesus said, "Don't take them out of the world, instead keep attentive to them with a view to their safely emerging from among the evil." Therefore, not only was Jesus referring the Philadelphian believers back to His High Priestly prayer in John 17, but by doing so He was indicating they would NOT be removed from the world, but would be watched over attentively during the "hour of temptation," having "kept" Jesus' Word with patience. Revelation 3:10 is not a promise of removal before the tribulation. It is a conditional promise for those who have been attentive to keep His Word. Jesus will be just as attentive to them until they emerge from the "hour of temptation."

 

[Geo]

The meaning of

"hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown"

is about not to jump to a conclusion of people that base their
understanding on assumptions and rearrange words to come
to a new meaning.

We have to read scripture as it is written, not by taking single words
from one scripture to generate new outcomes:

"...but would be watched over attentively during the "hour of temptation,"
having "kept" Jesus' Word with patience."

sounds nice, but it's not scriptural. It's not what the Spirit says to the church.

Someone adds new meaning to the scripture, ok, that's their choice

but why, if I may ask?

 

[Vic C.]

The meaning of

"hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown"

is about not to jump to a conclusion of people that base their
understanding on assumptions and rearrange words to come
to a new meaning.

We have to read scripture as it is written, not by taking single words
from one scripture to generate new outcomes:

"...but would be watched over attentively during the "hour of temptation,"
having "kept" Jesus' Word with patience."

sounds nice, but it's not scriptural. It's not what the Spirit says to the church.

Someone adds new meaning to the scripture, ok, that's their choice

but why, if I may ask?

Sorry, my intentions were not to add or change any meaning whatsoever. I am trying to convey to the best of my understanding what this all meant in the Original Greek. I believe the ones who try to interject today's language into the text are the ones adding meaning.

Just my opinion. 8-)

 

[Geo]

Let me guess, the KJV english translation is not accurate, and we
need the greek translation if we want to understand what God's saying.

That's why children have an 'unfair' advantage in believing over
intellectuals that get stuck in "Details" to understand and believe.

See it from God's view that provides for all (even non-Greeks)
and be cured from greekism for good.

 

[Vic C.]

Let me guess, the KJV english translation is not accurate, and we
need the greek translation if we want to understand what God's saying.

That's why children have an 'unfair' advantage in believing over
intellectuals that get stuck in "Details" to understand and believe.

See it from God's view that provides for all (even non-Greeks)
and be cured from greekism for good.

Point taken Geo. If I may make a point of my own... I refer back to the Greek and Hebrew for a deeper understanding of what the Bible is trying to convey to me concerning a doctrine like End Times. Also, I, in no way, would consider myself an intellectual. You are correct though, knowing Greek is not a prerequisite for believing.

I have no desire to be "cured" of "Greekism" if it helps me in my studies. Maybe you should tell someone who actually reads Greek they must be "cured" of their "Greekism". Some of the best advice a Pastor gave us was if we wanted to interpret the Bible for ourselves, learn to read Greek and Hebrew.

 

[Darrell dunn]

I believe that Pastor did you a miss service for telling you that, he should have been telling you how to hear from God.

If you ask God a question and haven't gotten an answer in a couple of hrs then your not hearing from God. People use The story of Daniel waiting 21 days as the reason they haven't heard from God. But Daniel didn't have the Holy Spirit , If it takes you 21 days to hear from God then I would ask if you have the Holy spirit?

My God speaks American and Old English,And can tell you exact meaning with Greek.

And most of the time when someone tells us to go to the Greek, Most of the time they are trying to change the English to say something else.

 

[Vic C.]

I believe that Pastor did you a miss service for telling you that, he should have been telling you how to hear from God.

If you ask God a question and haven't gotten an answer in a couple of hrs then your not hearing from God. People use The story of Daniel waiting 21 days as the reason they haven't heard from God. But Daniel didn't have the Holy Spirit , If it takes you 21 days to hear from God then I would ask if you have the Holy spirit?

With all due respect, that was not very nice, was it? I don't put timetables on God.

He reveals according to His time, not ours. I have prayed for answers many times. Many times He has given me answers days, sometimes weeks or months later. Sometimes we aren't prepared for answers immediately. He knows better than we do when we will be able to receive and understand certain revelations.

My God speaks American and Old English,And can tell you exact meaning with Greek.

Darrell, we believe in the same God... at least I hope we do. God speaks all languages. The problem isn't with Him, it's with us. Do we actually understand when He speaks?

And most of the time when someone tells us to go to the Greek, Most of the time they are trying to change the English to say something else.

I don't buy that at all. You can't honestly say English doesn't lose something in translation. It's a well know fact that Hebrew and Greek are much more precise languages than English will ever be. For instance... "I love her." What do I mean by that without me elaborating? Now if I were to use one of the Greek words for love, there would be no reason for me to elaborate.

I think the problem is many times people don't like to refer to the original languages because it could shatter their preconceived notions as to what is really being said. Now don't get me wrong and think I am not saying God preserves His word; He does... in it's original languages. With that said, I do prefer the TR and it's English translations.. but again, I do think meanings are sometimes lost in translating.

 

[Geo]

Your comment: " God preserves His word; He does... in it's original languages."
may apply for any piece of literature, except the Bible.
You assume a God without plan and without power.

coincidentally, I just read Jim Searcy latest newsletter where he
addresses a related myth:

"It is NOT about jots and titles. The Greek New Testament upon which
all other profane bibles are based, to greater or lesser extent, has
5,337 DELETIONS just in the New Testament. It is NOT about how many
Hebrew words we know. The Lord is just as well pleased with the Jew
who lifts up and exalts the name Jesus, as He is with the Gentile
that exalts Yeshua, for the sake of unity. It is not how we
pronounce His name, it is about being submitted to God, and under
authority, so that we may have the positional authority, being IN
His authority, to speak IN His Name. I tell you the tongue Paul was
talking about was the Hebrew tongue, in that Messianic church in
Corinth with the common wall joined to the Jewish Synagogue in
Corinth. You will not get EVERY word of God from any other bible,
even if it is a Hebrew rootie tootied profane bible.

Thank God that we have the Word of God, that we have the Word of
God, in the KJV Holy Bible. It is the only bible which has not had
the principles and tactics of spiritual warfare and deliverance
effectively removed.

How well do we REALLY KNOW Yeshua? How many Hebrew words
do you think He would speak if He were to enter a Messianic congregation
in Mexico, Spain, or South America? I tell you He would speak 100%
perfect Spanish, and no Hebrew. In France it would be all 100%
perfect French. In America it would be all 100% perfect English. If
we are spending time on extra-biblical RELIGIOUS stuff, rabbinic
stuff, rather than building Faith, and learing spiritual warfare,
IT IS NOT KEEPING THE MAIN THING THE MAIN THING. If we can
not unite about the pure truth and simplicity of the KJV Holy Bible,
we should be SHAMED and we will soon be SHAKEN. "

 

[Darrell dunn]

Amen Geo and again Amen!

Vic I believe that God inspired the KJ , And with the Holy Spirit guiding you I don't think there is a thing lost.

I am not sure that the concordance is God inspired, or some of the newer bibles.

As for what I said about the Holy Spirit I believe there is some bad teaching today on this. In my case I was saved for 25 yrs before receiving the Holy Spirit. Then it took real commitment on my part, and I have never spoke in tongues.And when it happened I was challenged face to face by satan, my wife was also.

I don't know if this would be true in all cases, but it is a second work of God.