Catholic-Protestant confirmation bias that refuses to accept scripture that repentance in Hell is possible must be rejected as unsound

[Alfred Persson]

Heaven is juxtaposed on Earth;
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
Eph 2:6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Hell is also juxtaposed, for it is a district of the spiritual realm;
Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

So, not only is it possible for people's souls to repent while in Hell, it is a necessary condition for salvation, specifically to effect the common salvation from the polutions of the world. The polutions of the world are the result of sin. We are made clean (purged, as in purgatory) by faith and pedlution, so there is no need for a purgatory-like construct;

16 “For God so loved the world (2889 κόσμος kosmos) that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 “For God did not send His Son into the world (2889 κόσμος kosmos) to condemn the world (2889 κόσμος kosmos) , but that the world (2889 κόσμος kosmos) through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:16-18 NKJ)

In John 3:16-18 “world” (2889 κόσμος kosmos) appears four times, contrasting the kosmos from whence God’s Son came with “the kosmos of humanity.” Therefore, it is impossible God sent His Son to save only some in the kosmos — excluding all born before Christ came or didn’t hear the Gospel of Christ after the 1st century. God sent His Son to save the entire kosmos (Jn. 1:9, 29; 4:42; Rm. 5:10; 8:32; 2 Cor. 5:19) whether living or dead (Jn. 5:24-25, 28-29; Heb. 9:26-28; 1 Pt. 4:6) , all born into it since the world began. (1 Jn. 2:2; 4:9-10; 8:32)

The writer of the Book of Hebrews explains how God accomplished this. His only begotten Son didn’t offer His sacrifice in the literal Temple in Jerusalem, but in heavenly Temple itself. Moreover, unlike the High Priest who offers sacrifice every year for those alive at that time, Christ appeared once at the “end of the ages” so His sacrifice would “put away sin” for all humanity born on earth since “the foundation of the kosmos“.

24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another–
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world (2889 κόσμος kosmos); but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. (Heb. 9:24-26 NKJ)

From God’s timeless perspective, “the Lamb” was “slain from the foundation of the world”, in other words, the moment God began to create “the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world was slain” and names of those He saved were written in the Book of Life:

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (Jn. 1:29 NKJ)

[The names of those who worship the Antichrist were not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world:]

All who dwell on the earth will worship him [the Antichrist], whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (Rev. 13:8 NKJ) Compare Phil. 4:3; Rev. 3:5; 13:8; 20:12, 15; 21:27.

Confirming this interpretation is correct, the writer to the Hebrews observes all humanity in the world die once, but then they undergo a “trial,” a “judgment.” Those who pass then “eagerly wait” for Christ’s second coming when He appears apart from sacrificing Himself for sin, to save them from hell:

27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. (Heb. 9:27-28 NKJ)

But what of the mockers who think it strange Christians quit their former lives of excess, and so refuse to believe the gospel? Will God give them a second chance? The Apostle Peter says “yes”, even those who mocked Christians while alive will hear the gospel preached to them, so they can repent and believe and live according to God in their spirit while still in Hell:

3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles– when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries.
4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.
5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pt. 4:3-6 NKJ)

Jesus made it clear God is very forgiving, but not for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit:

31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.
32 “Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. (Matt. 12:31-32 NKJ)

Acceptance or rejection of the Gospel of Christ are the ONLY grounds for Judgment:

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. (Jn. 14:6 NKJ)

11 “This is the `stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’
12 “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:11-12 NKJ)

17 “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (Jn. 3:17-18 NKJ)

Therefore, God will judge everyone in the world of human existence, living or dead—only after a definite and formal presentment of the Gospel of Christ enables conscious and deliberate acceptance or rejection of Christ.

For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pt. 4:6 NKJ)

All in “the graves” who do good after hearing Christ’s voice will rise from Hell to a resurrection of life:

28 “Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
29 “and come forth– those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. (Jn. 5:28-29 NKJ)

 

[jerry63935]

Catholic belief
All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.
(Catechism of the Catholic Church para 1030)

This belief in a cleansing and purification after death is not just a Catholic one but is common to Judaism, Orthodoxy and Protestantism, though the form and name may be different.

this is not Biblically based

 

[Hopeful]

this is not Biblically based

I agree, as it is a false doctrine that accommodates sin here on earth, where we have been freed from sin by Jesus Christ. (Rom 6:7)

 

[jerry63935]

been freed from sin

that is true doctrine we been set free purgatory is a farce we as Christians are under sanctification which is the process being made Holy. the final step is when we get home. we have some missionary friends that has been in Guam 10 months. Guam is catholic in nature its all they know,

Cathy the wife of the pastor of the Church they reopened . had to make trip back a very close family friends passed . she came last night gave us update. she said they have not even had time to get into the bigger doctrine . they been ( her ladies class ) focus has been on the ten commandments and the fruit of the spirit.

but they are reaching the community our church sent them 5 boxes of Humanitarian aid Kleenexes----12 ROLLS toliet paper . yes thing we take for granted wide verity over the counter meds. people living in cars tin huts. no running water. we dont know real hardship even most of the homeless they chose that way . so considering were doing pretty darn good

 

[Hopeful]

that is true doctrine we been set free purgatory is a farce we as Christians are under sanctification which is the process being made Holy.

Sanctification is not a process, but the result of the application of the blood of Christ.
It happens at our baptism into Christ, wherein we too are killed, buried, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-7)
The only "process" we endure is the growth in grace and knowledge.

the final step is when we get home.

We will indeed be given new glorified bodies at the return of Christ.
But what is here now is born of God's seed and quickened by His Spirit.

we have some missionary friends that has been in Guam 10 months. Guam is catholic in nature its all they know,
Cathy the wife of the pastor of the Church they reopened . had to make trip back a very close family friends passed . she came last night gave us update. she said they have not even had time to get into the bigger doctrine . they been ( her ladies class ) focus has been on the ten commandments and the fruit of the spirit.
but they are reaching the community our church sent them 5 boxes of Humanitarian aid Kleenexes----12 ROLLS toliet paper . yes thing we take for granted wide verity over the counter meds. people living in cars tin huts. no running water. we dont know real hardship even most of the homeless they chose that way . so considering were doing pretty darn good

May God be glorified.

 

[jerry63935]

The only "process" we endure is the growth in grace and knowledge.

3 stages 1. positional placed into the Body of Christ. 2.progressive we are growing changed from glory to Glory .3. finial we made it home glorified body no more sin

 

[Hopeful]

3 stages 1. positional placed into the Body of Christ.

It was actual for me.

2.progressive we are growing changed from glory to Glory

I call it growing in grace and knowledge.

.3. finial we made it home glorified body no more sin

Your body decides when you will commit sin?
I am a new creature NOW, and my body has no say in my actions.
I still await a glorified body, but that will be well after the fact of my life before the day of judgement.

 

[jerry63935]

Your body decides when you will commit sin?
I am a new creature NOW, and my body has no say in my actions.
I still await a glorified body, but that will be well after the fact of my life before the day of judgement.

NOT SURE where you getting all this strange fire you can have it ..

 

[Mungo]

this is not Biblically based

It is very Biblically based - see posts #23, #24,#25,#26 & #27.

 

[jerry63935]

It is very Biblically based - see posts #23, #24,#25,#26 & #27.

its not Biblically correct i dont need to read the post i have a Bible and purgatory is not there . when one dies there is judgement . you either hear enter in or depart from me

 

[Alfred Persson]

this is not Biblically based

Actually, its a corruption of NT teaching that Hades is where the unsaved are purged of delusion and addiction to sin, restoring their free will. Then they can accept or reject the gospel of Christ:

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[Mungo]

its not Biblically correct i dont need to read the post i have a Bible and purgatory is not there . when one dies there is judgement . you either hear enter in or depart from me

Neither are the words Incarnation or Trinity in the Bible. But then perhaps you don't believe in them either.
A word expresses a concept and the concept of Purgatory is in the Bible as I showed in the five posts I gave.

If you are not here to discuss Biblically based topics then what are you here for?

 

[Mungo]

Actually, its a corruption of NT teaching that Hades is where the unsaved are purged of delusion and addiction to sin, restoring their free will. Then they can accept or reject the gospel of Christ:

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It's nothing to do with that.
As I clearly stated in the first of my posts on the topic (#21), the Catholic belief is that:
"All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation..."

How does "are indeed assured of their eternal salvation"mean they are unsaved?

 

[Alfred Persson]

It's nothing to do with that.
As I clearly stated in the first of my posts on the topic (#21), the Catholic belief is that:
"All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation..."

How does "are indeed assured of their eternal salvation"mean they are unsaved?

Its elementary, before Catholic dogma appeared there was Christian belief established by Christ and His apostles in the 1st century. They believed people could repent in the afterlife and be saved. By the third century Christians were getting confused about the afterlife and Hades slowly changed into Catholic purgatory for believers.

Scroll down to comment on main article for Early Church Fathers belief in Hades as a place for the unsaved to repent and be saved. Its why Christianity was able to spread so quickly, people learned their departed loved ones had Jesus to save them, even though they died before He came.:

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Four Early Church Fathers who were familiar with the concept of God preaching to the unsaved in hell:

Preaching to the Dead in the Early Church Fathers listed in Chronological Order



Or do you believe people would become Christians if the gospel was "everyone who died without Christ are lost in Hades forever? Your departed loved ones are in hell because they weren't Believers!"

If that was the Christian gospel, it would have vanished in the 1st century.

 

[jerry63935]

If you are not here to discuss Biblically based topics then what are you here for?

well in this subject matter i dont see anything bible

 

[Mungo]

well in this subject matter i dont see anything bible

You don't see it because you are refusing to look at all the scripture I posted.

 

[Mungo]

Its elementary, before Catholic dogma appeared there was Christian belief established by Christ and His apostles in the 1st century. They believed people could repent in the afterlife and be saved. By the third century Christians were getting confused about the afterlife and Hades slowly changed into Catholic purgatory for believers.

I don't believe there was a belief that people could repent after death and be saved. You provide no evidence for such a belief.

As I understand it the Jews believed that Sheol (Greek Hades) had two parts one for the unrighteous and one for the righteous, the latter being called the "bosom of Abraham".
After the fall heaven was closed to mankind, symbolised by the angel guarding the gates of Eden (Gen 3:24)

Jesus parable of the rich man and (Lk 16:19-31) is very instructive.
The rich man was unrighteous and when he died he went to Sheol and was tortured
Lazarus was righteous and when he died he went to that part of Sheol called the bosom of Abraham.
There was a big divide between the two that was unbridgeable.

This shows that there was an immediate judgement after death but different results for the righteous and unrighteous.

After Jesus died heaven was opened to mankind - symbolised by the tearing in two of the curtain in the temple (Mt 27:51).

Jesus went to preach to the spirit in prison (1Pet 3:19). That would have been the ones in the bosom of Abraham. They were then released and went into heaven.

That only left the damned in that part of Sheol we now call hell. They are there permanently.

Scroll down to comment on main article for Early Church Fathers belief in Hades as a place for the unsaved to repent and be saved. Its why Christianity was able to spread so quickly, people learned their departed loved ones had Jesus to save them, even though they died before He came.:

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Four Early Church Fathers who were familiar with the concept of God preaching to the unsaved in hell:

Preaching to the Dead in the Early Church Fathers listed in Chronological Order



Or do you believe people would become Christians if the gospel was "everyone who died without Christ are lost in Hades forever? Your departed loved ones are in hell because they weren't Believers!"

If that was the Christian gospel, it would have vanished in the 1st century.

If you have evidence then present it here not expect me to go searching.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I don't believe there was a belief that people could repent after death and be saved. You provide no evidence for such a belief.

What of the mockers who think it strange Christians quit their former lives of excess, and so refuse to believe the gospel? Will God give them a second chance? The Apostle Peter says “yes”, even those who mocked Christians while alive will hear the gospel preached to them, so they can repent and believe and live according to God in their spirit while still in Hell:

3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles– when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries.
4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.
5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pt. 4:3-6 NKJ)

As I understand it the Jews believed that Sheol (Greek Hades) had two parts one for the unrighteous and one for the righteous, the latter being called the "bosom of Abraham".
After the fall heaven was closed to mankind, symbolised by the angel guarding the gates of Eden (Gen 3:24)

Jesus parable of the rich man and (Lk 16:19-31) is very instructive.
The rich man was unrighteous and when he died he went to Sheol and was tortured
Lazarus was righteous and when he died he went to that part of Sheol called the bosom of Abraham.
There was a big divide between the two that was unbridgeable.

This shows that there was an immediate judgement after death but different results for the righteous and unrighteous.

Yes BUT hell itself will be emptied of its souls, and then destroyed in the Lake of fire. Therefore, you are wrong they will not leave hell, everyone in it will:

13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (Rev. 20:13-14 NKJ)

After Jesus died heaven was opened to mankind - symbolised by the tearing in two of the curtain in the temple (Mt 27:51).

Jesus went to preach to the spirit in prison (1Pet 3:19). That would have been the ones in the bosom of Abraham. They were then released and went into heaven.

That only left the damned in that part of Sheol we now call hell. They are there permanently.

The Spirits in prison were the hybrid human-angel "men of renown" imprisoned since the flood of Noah's Day. It says they couldn't believe God would forgive the defilement of the image of God with angel DNA, so they wouldn't believe Noah's preaching. So Christ made a special trip to them, convinced them God would forgive their hybrid nature, and they gave the answer of a good conscience just like what saves us the church:

18 Christ himself died once and for all for sins, the upright for the sake of the guilty, to lead us to God. In the body he was put to death, in the spirit he was raised to life,
19 and, in the spirit, he went to preach to the spirits in prison.
20 They refused to believe long ago, while God patiently waited to receive them, in Noah's time when the ark was being built. In it only a few, that is eight souls, were saved through water.
21 It is the baptism corresponding to this water which saves you now -- not the washing off of physical dirt but the pledge of a good conscience given to God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22 who has entered heaven and is at God's right hand, with angels, ruling forces and powers subject to him. (1 Pet. 3:18-22 NJB)

If you have evidence then present it here not expect me to go searching.

16 “For God so loved the world (2889 κόσμος kosmos) that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 “For God did not send His Son into the world (2889 κόσμος kosmos) to condemn the world (2889 κόσμος kosmos) , but that the world (2889 κόσμος kosmos) through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:16-18 NKJ)

In John 3:16-18 “world” (2889 κόσμος kosmos) appears four times, contrasting the kosmos from whence God’s Son came with “the kosmos of humanity.” Therefore, it is impossible God sent His Son to save only some in the kosmos — excluding all born before Christ came or didn’t hear the Gospel of Christ after the 1st century. God sent His Son to save the entire kosmos (Jn. 1:9, 29; 4:42; Rm. 5:10; 8:32; 2 Cor. 5:19) whether living or dead (Jn. 5:24-25, 28-29; Heb. 9:27-28; 1 Pt. 4:6) , all born into it since the world began. (Col. 1:20; Heb. 9:24-26; 1 Jn. 2:2; 4:9-10; 8:32)


Dozens and dozens of Scriptures prove Jesus and His apostles taught the same thing as seen in the Old Testament, that there is 'probation after death':

Go here for all of it:

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The advantage of going to my site is you can hover your mouse over a scripture reference and the verse will pop up for easy reading:


Here's a video:

 

[Mungo]

What of the mockers who think it strange Christians quit their former lives of excess, and so refuse to believe the gospel? Will God give them a second chance? The Apostle Peter says “yes”, even those who mocked Christians while alive will hear the gospel preached to them, so they can repent and believe and live according to God in their spirit while still in Hell:





Yes BUT hell itself will be emptied of its souls, and then destroyed in the Lake of fire. Therefore, you are wrong they will not leave hell, everyone in it will:

13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (Rev. 20:13-14 NKJ)




The Spirits in prison were the hybrid human-angel "men of renown" imprisoned since the flood of Noah's Day. It says they couldn't believe God would forgive the defilement of the image of God with angel DNA, so they wouldn't believe Noah's preaching. So Christ made a special trip to them, convinced them God would forgive their hybrid nature, and they gave the answer of a good conscience just like what saves us the church:

18 Christ himself died once and for all for sins, the upright for the sake of the guilty, to lead us to God. In the body he was put to death, in the spirit he was raised to life,
19 and, in the spirit, he went to preach to the spirits in prison.
20 They refused to believe long ago, while God patiently waited to receive them, in Noah's time when the ark was being built. In it only a few, that is eight souls, were saved through water.
21 It is the baptism corresponding to this water which saves you now -- not the washing off of physical dirt but the pledge of a good conscience given to God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22 who has entered heaven and is at God's right hand, with angels, ruling forces and powers subject to him. (1 Pet. 3:18-22 NJB)




In John 3:16-18 “world” (2889 κόσμος kosmos) appears four times, contrasting the kosmos from whence God’s Son came with “the kosmos of humanity.” Therefore, it is impossible God sent His Son to save only some in the kosmos — excluding all born before Christ came or didn’t hear the Gospel of Christ after the 1st century. God sent His Son to save the entire kosmos (Jn. 1:9, 29; 4:42; Rm. 5:10; 8:32; 2 Cor. 5:19) whether living or dead (Jn. 5:24-25, 28-29; Heb. 9:27-28; 1 Pt. 4:6) , all born into it since the world began. (Col. 1:20; Heb. 9:24-26; 1 Jn. 2:2; 4:9-10; 8:32)


Dozens and dozens of Scriptures prove Jesus and His apostles taught the same thing as seen in the Old Testament, that there is 'probation after death':

Go here for all of it:

Home | End Time News

Unlock the Scriptures Discover insights on the prophesied events and prepare for the future with End Time News. Explore Now Site Under Construction Ignore Starter Template Testimonies etc. Read Blog posts only. Guidance Receive expert analysis and interpretations on prophetic scriptures for...

endtimenews.net

The advantage of going to my site is you can hover your mouse over a scripture reference and the verse will pop up for easy reading:


Here's a video:

"the hybrid human-angel" :shock

If you into that sort of weirdness theory I see no point in continuing.

 

[XRose]

There

Catholic-Protestant confirmation bias that refuses to accept scripture that repentance in Hell is possible must be rejected as unsound.

Below are Various Scriptures where repentance in this life and Hell are implied parallels (cp. Jn. 5:24-25 w. Jn. 5:28-29) borrowing imagery from each other. Also, scriptures that explicitly state or imply repentance in hell possible:

1Sam. 2:6-10; 2Sam. 22:5-7, 16-18; Job 33:27-28; Ps. 16:10-11; 30:3-6; 49:15-16; 56:13; 68:18-20; 71:19-24; 86:13; 107:8-15; 116:3-9; 139:8; Isa. 4:4-6; 26:19-21; 38:16-20; Lam. 3:25; Hos. 13:14; Jon. 2:2-6; Mic. 7:7-9; Zec. 9:11; John 5:28-29; Rom. 8:28-39; 11:25-36; 1 Pt. 3:18-22; 4:6; 1 Cor. 5:5; Eph. 4:8-10; Heb. 9:27-28; Rev. 1:18; 20:11-15


For more:

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There is no repentance in hell as there is no hell.
Also the dead know nothing as all thoughts perish on death.
Also all the dead have lived their first life and will be judged on that life on Judgment Day and only those whose names were listed in the Book of Life will be not judged but will spend eternity of Earth with Jesus.
All those not found in the book will be eternally destroyed.
Catholics will say anything for money.