Cessationism

[electedbyHim]

This is a very delicate subject for many professing Christians. I am a firm believer that those who claim to have these gifts are being guided on their feelings and not the Holy Spirit. I have been to many Charismatic churches in my day and have seen this first hand.

I truly never believed that this was any doing of the Holy Spirit. I have been in many debates with those who claim these gifts are in operation today. I also understand that if they are truly from the Holy Spirit, they would follow a Biblical pattern, but they never do.

I believe God can work anyway He please, but I also believe He will not contradict His own word. I would like to share the following points from an old study I once had.

The biblical record shows that miracles occurred during particular periods for the specific purpose of authenticating a new message from God.

MOSES was enabled to perform miracles to authenticate his ministry before Pharaoh (Exodus 4:1-8)

ELIJAH was given miracles to authenticate his ministry before Ahab (1 Kings 17:1; 18:24)

THE APOSTLES were given miracles to authenticate their ministry before Israel (Acts 4:10, 16).

JESUS’ ministry was also marked by miracles, which the Apostle John calls “signs” (John 2:11). John’s point is that the miracles were proofs of the authenticity of Jesus’ message.

After Jesus’ resurrection, as the Church was being established and the New Testament was being written, the apostles demonstrated “signs” such as tongues and the power to heal. “Tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not” (1 Corinthians 14:22, a verse that plainly says the gift was never intended to edify the church).

The Apostle Paul predicted that the gift of tongues would cease (1 Corinthians 13:8).

Here are 6 proofs that it has already ceased:

1) The apostles, through whom tongues came, were unique in the history of the church. Once their ministry was accomplished, the need for authenticating signs ceased to exist.

2) The miracle (or sign) gifts are only mentioned in the earliest Epistles, such as 1 Corinthians. Later books, such as Ephesians and Romans, contain detailed passages on the gifts of the Spirit, but the miracle gifts are not mentioned (although Romans does mention the gift of prophecy, the Greek word translated prophecy mean “speaking forth” and does not necessarily include prediction of the future).

3) The gift of tongues was a sign to unbelieving Israel that God’s salvation was now available to other nations. See 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 and Isaiah 28:11-12.

4) Tongues were an inferior gift to prophecy (preaching). Preaching the Word of God edifies believers, whereas tongues do not. Believers are told to seek prophesying over speaking in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:1-3).

5) History indicates that tongues did cease. Tongues are not mentioned at all by the Post-Apostolic Fathers. Other writers such as Justin Martyr, Origen, Chrysostom, and Augustine considered tongues something that happened only in the earliest days of the Church.

6) Current observation confirms that the miracle of tongues has ceased. If the gift were still available today, there would be no need for missionaries to attend language school. Missionaries would be able to travel to any country and speak any language fluently, just as the apostles were able to speak in Acts 2.

As for the miracle gift of healing, we see in Scripture that healing was associated with the ministry of Jesus and the apostles (Luke 9:1-2). And we see that as the era of the apostles drew to a close, healing, like tongues, became less frequent.

The Apostle Paul, who raised Eutychus from the dead (Acts 20:9-12), did not heal:

• Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25-27)
• Trophimus (2 Timothy 4:20)
• Timothy (1 Timothy 5:23)
• Himself (2 Corinthians 12:7-9).

The reasons for Paul’s “failures to heal” are:

A) the gift was never intended to make every Christian well, but to authenticate apostleship;
B) the authority of the apostles had been sufficiently proved, making further miracles unnecessary.

The reasons stated above are evidence that the sign gifts have ceased. According to 1 Corinthians 13:13-14:1, we would do well to “pursue love,” the greatest gift of all. If we are to desire gifts, we should desire to speak forth the Word of God, that all may be edified.

There is much more to add but I just wanted to post this concise study and see what opinions others had who believe sign gifts are relevant today.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[hawkman]

Question for you . Have you ever sat down and talked with someone who has a one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit ? Asked them what it is like to operate in the gift , to have the Holy Spirit to use them .

 

[electedbyHim]

Question for you . Have you ever sat down and talked with someone who has a one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit ? Asked them what it is like to operate in the gift , to have the Holy Spirit to use them .

Let me just say that many years ago I spent a year or so in a very Charismatic homeless shelter. I lived among these people who claimed to have these gifts. The ministers, pastors and laymen who worked there were also very Charismatic and promoted these sign gifts. There were very few who did not teach these things.. I have heard many things to as of why they believe what they do. I have had many conversations and been to more charismatic churches then I care to admit to.

I hope this answers your question.

 

[eddif]

This is a very delicate subject for many professing Christians. I am a firm believer that those who claim to have these gifts are being guided on their feelings and not the Holy Spirit. I have been to many Charismatic churches in my day and have seen this first hand.

I truly never believed that this was any doing of the Holy Spirit. I have been in many debates with those who claim these gifts are in operation today. I also understand that if they are truly from the Holy Spirit, they would follow a Biblical pattern, but they never do.

I believe God can work anyway He please, but I also believe He will not contradict His own word. I would like to share the following points from an old study I once had.


There is much more to add but I just wanted to post this concise study and see what opinions others had who believe sign gifts are relevant today.

Grace and peace to you.

Well. If there is a problem now, we should not use our present experience to define the use of tongues, but use the written word, or what the written word became.

When the perfect is come tongues will cease. Jesus will return, and I believe he is perfection.

I will try and not over think too much.
What do you think ?

eddif

 

[electedbyHim]

Well. If there is a problem now, we should not use our present experience to define the use of tongues, but use the written word, or what the written word became.

I started a different thread on what the Bible teaches on the use of true tongues.

I also try not to overthink too much, but it happens.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[for_his_glory]

The sad part about receiving the gifts of the Holy Spirit that are explained in 1 Corinthians 12 is that there are many that seem to have a form of Godliness, but deny the power of the Holy Spirit as they only take on the traits of these gifts during services. If they lay hands on someone and they are not healed then they are told they do not have enough faith or that they have unrepented sin in their life. To these false practitioners that never truly received these gifts of the Holy Spirit can cause many to fall away and they will be held accountable before the Lord on judgement day.

I and many others have experienced many times the moving of the Holy Spirit and how God's Spirit has worked through me/they to lay hands on others and to even cast out demons in the name of Jesus. These signs and wonders show the power and authority of Christ as we witness and testify to others these miracles of God.

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Heb 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

 

[electedbyHim]

The sad part about receiving the gifts of the Holy Spirit that are explained in 1 Corinthians 12 is that there are many that seem to have a form of Godliness, but deny the power of the Holy Spirit as they only take on the traits of these gifts during services. If they lay hands on someone and they are not healed then they are told they do not have enough faith or that they have unrepented sin in their life. To these false practitioners that never truly received these gifts of the Holy Spirit can cause many to fall away and they will be held accountable before the Lord on judgement day.

I and many others have experienced many times the moving of the Holy Spirit and how God's Spirit has worked through me/they to lay hands on others and to even cast out demons in the name of Jesus. These signs and wonders show the power and authority of Christ as we witness and testify to others these miracles of God.

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Heb 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

Thank you for sharing.

I understand we have the opposite views on this, and that is alright.

I truly do not believe we need these signs, miracles and wonders today. I have been to many of these churches and all were nothing but self-righteous look at me spectacles. People out of control. When they blatantly break the rules of the written word, they cannot be trusted. Many have fake healers, woman who claim they are pastors and speak gibberish which is unbiblical.

Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Mat 7:22 “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, in Your name did we not prophesy, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many miracles?’
Mat 7:23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

I believe many of these people are truly deceived by satan. They give satan sovereignty over God and that is plain wrong.

It is like the many who are self-deceived who believe they are saved and can live their life any way they like.

People will believe what they want, especially if it feels good and that is exactly what most people live their life on, feelings. The whole charismatic movement is based on feelings, not truth.

I can only pray for others and point out truths.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[for_his_glory]

I have been to many of these churches and all were nothing but self-righteous look at me spectacles. People out of control. When they blatantly break the rules of the written word, they cannot be trusted. Many have fake healers, woman who claim they are pastors and speak gibberish which is unbiblical.

I too have seen so much fakeness in some churches as there is no presence of the holy Spirit even felt when you enter the door nor present during the service, but yet not all churches are like this as I have been in a few where the Holy Spirit was so strong that it could knock you down to the ground.

I know man teaches the gifts given by the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12 have ceased, but that would mean the Holy Spirit has ceased and we know that is not true.

 

[electedbyHim]

I too have seen so much fakeness in some churches as there is no presence of the holy Spirit even felt when you enter the door nor present during the service, but yet not all churches are like this as I have been in a few where the Holy Spirit was so strong that it could knock you down to the ground.

I know man teaches the gifts given by the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12 have ceased, but that would mean the Holy Spirit has ceased and we know that is not true.

Thank you for sharing.

I know man teaches the gifts given by the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12 have ceased, but that would mean the Holy Spirit has ceased and we know that is not true.

I do not believe the Bible teaches that they still exist today.

Per my o.p.

The biblical record shows that miracles occurred during particular periods for the specific purpose of authenticating a new message from God.

MOSES was enabled to perform miracles to authenticate his ministry before Pharaoh (Exodus 4:1-8)

ELIJAH was given miracles to authenticate his ministry before Ahab (1 Kings 17:1; 18:24)

THE APOSTLES were given miracles to authenticate their ministry before Israel (Acts 4:10, 16).

JESUS’ ministry was also marked by miracles, which the Apostle John calls “signs” (John 2:11). John’s point is that the miracles were proofs of the authenticity of Jesus’ message.

After Jesus’ resurrection, as the Church was being established and the New Testament was being written, the apostles demonstrated “signs” such as tongues and the power to heal. “Tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not” (1 Corinthians 14:22, a verse that plainly says the gift was never intended to edify the church).

The Apostle Paul predicted that the gift of tongues would cease (1 Corinthians 13:8).

Here are 6 proofs that it has already ceased:

1) The apostles, through whom tongues came, were unique in the history of the church. Once their ministry was accomplished, the need for authenticating signs ceased to exist.

2) The miracle (or sign) gifts are only mentioned in the earliest Epistles, such as 1 Corinthians. Later books, such as Ephesians and Romans, contain detailed passages on the gifts of the Spirit, but the miracle gifts are not mentioned (although Romans does mention the gift of prophecy, the Greek word translated prophecy mean “speaking forth” and does not necessarily include prediction of the future).

3) The gift of tongues was a sign to unbelieving Israel that God’s salvation was now available to other nations. See 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 and Isaiah 28:11-12.

4) Tongues were an inferior gift to prophecy (preaching). Preaching the Word of God edifies believers, whereas tongues do not. Believers are told to seek prophesying over speaking in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:1-3).

5) History indicates that tongues did cease. Tongues are not mentioned at all by the Post-Apostolic Fathers. Other writers such as Justin Martyr, Origen, Chrysostom, and Augustine considered tongues something that happened only in the earliest days of the Church.

6) Current observation confirms that the miracle of tongues has ceased. If the gift were still available today, there would be no need for missionaries to attend language school. Missionaries would be able to travel to any country and speak any language fluently, just as the apostles were able to speak in Acts 2.

As for the miracle gift of healing, we see in Scripture that healing was associated with the ministry of Jesus and the apostles (Luke 9:1-2). And we see that as the era of the apostles drew to a close, healing, like tongues, became less frequent.

The Apostle Paul, who raised Eutychus from the dead (Acts 20:9-12), did not heal:

• Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25-27)
• Trophimus (2 Timothy 4:20)
• Timothy (1 Timothy 5:23)
• Himself (2 Corinthians 12:7-9).

The reasons for Paul’s “failures to heal” are:

A) the gift was never intended to make every Christian well, but to authenticate apostleship;
B) the authority of the apostles had been sufficiently proved, making further miracles unnecessary.

The reasons stated above are evidence that the sign gifts have ceased. According to 1 Corinthians 13:13-14:1, we would do well to “pursue love,” the greatest gift of all. If we are to desire gifts, we should desire to speak forth the Word of God, that all may be edified.


No worries, I know there will be opposition to these truths.

I have pointed out in the other threads why those who practice these gifts should study the background and history of the Corinthians to see why Paul was rebuking them.

One thing I know for certain is that we are to bring glory to God in all we do, I believe all true children of God can agree on this.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Mungo]

Let's leave aside tongues and consider the other gifts (charisms) such as healing prophecy, miracles, even raising from the dead and so on.
The Catholic Church teaches they still exist. I mention this because many think the Catholic Church is just rules and rituals.
I believe these charisms still exist and many in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal have these gifts and use them.

"And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.” (Mk 16:17-18)

 

[for_his_glory]

Thank you for sharing.

I do not believe the Bible teaches that they still exist today.

Per my o.p.

The biblical record shows that miracles occurred during particular periods for the specific purpose of authenticating a new message from God.

MOSES was enabled to perform miracles to authenticate his ministry before Pharaoh (Exodus 4:1-8)

ELIJAH was given miracles to authenticate his ministry before Ahab (1 Kings 17:1; 18:24)

THE APOSTLES were given miracles to authenticate their ministry before Israel (Acts 4:10, 16).

JESUS’ ministry was also marked by miracles, which the Apostle John calls “signs” (John 2:11). John’s point is that the miracles were proofs of the authenticity of Jesus’ message.

After Jesus’ resurrection, as the Church was being established and the New Testament was being written, the apostles demonstrated “signs” such as tongues and the power to heal. “Tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not” (1 Corinthians 14:22, a verse that plainly says the gift was never intended to edify the church).

The Apostle Paul predicted that the gift of tongues would cease (1 Corinthians 13:8).

Here are 6 proofs that it has already ceased:

1) The apostles, through whom tongues came, were unique in the history of the church. Once their ministry was accomplished, the need for authenticating signs ceased to exist.

2) The miracle (or sign) gifts are only mentioned in the earliest Epistles, such as 1 Corinthians. Later books, such as Ephesians and Romans, contain detailed passages on the gifts of the Spirit, but the miracle gifts are not mentioned (although Romans does mention the gift of prophecy, the Greek word translated prophecy mean “speaking forth” and does not necessarily include prediction of the future).

3) The gift of tongues was a sign to unbelieving Israel that God’s salvation was now available to other nations. See 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 and Isaiah 28:11-12.

4) Tongues were an inferior gift to prophecy (preaching). Preaching the Word of God edifies believers, whereas tongues do not. Believers are told to seek prophesying over speaking in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:1-3).

5) History indicates that tongues did cease. Tongues are not mentioned at all by the Post-Apostolic Fathers. Other writers such as Justin Martyr, Origen, Chrysostom, and Augustine considered tongues something that happened only in the earliest days of the Church.

6) Current observation confirms that the miracle of tongues has ceased. If the gift were still available today, there would be no need for missionaries to attend language school. Missionaries would be able to travel to any country and speak any language fluently, just as the apostles were able to speak in Acts 2.

As for the miracle gift of healing, we see in Scripture that healing was associated with the ministry of Jesus and the apostles (Luke 9:1-2). And we see that as the era of the apostles drew to a close, healing, like tongues, became less frequent.

The Apostle Paul, who raised Eutychus from the dead (Acts 20:9-12), did not heal:

• Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25-27)
• Trophimus (2 Timothy 4:20)
• Timothy (1 Timothy 5:23)
• Himself (2 Corinthians 12:7-9).

The reasons for Paul’s “failures to heal” are:

A) the gift was never intended to make every Christian well, but to authenticate apostleship;
B) the authority of the apostles had been sufficiently proved, making further miracles unnecessary.

The reasons stated above are evidence that the sign gifts have ceased. According to 1 Corinthians 13:13-14:1, we would do well to “pursue love,” the greatest gift of all. If we are to desire gifts, we should desire to speak forth the Word of God, that all may be edified.


No worries, I know there will be opposition to these truths.

I have pointed out in the other threads why those who practice these gifts should study the background and history of the Corinthians to see why Paul was rebuking them.

One thing I know for certain is that we are to bring glory to God in all we do, I believe all true children of God can agree on this.

Grace and peace to you.

Signs are given to those of unbelief to help draw them into Christ as those who already believe in Christ need no signs and wonders, but already believe in the works of Christ. These signs and wonders that are gifts from the Holy Spirit were first given to the Apostles as being the first ones to receive the empowerment of Holy Spirit for the furtherment of the ministry of Christ here on earth when He ascended up to heaven.

Remember when John the baptist said in Matthew 3:11 he (Jesus) he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire, the fire is the empowerment of Jesus in all those who have received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. This same power and authority that the Apostles received is the same power and authority of Christ also given to all who have been Spiritually born again from above and are baptized in Christ receiving the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. These same gifts are still in existence as they were yesterday, today and forever. All the gifts are for the purpose of the ministry of Christ that we follow in His footsteps through these very same signs and wonders that He first showed in being the great "I AM" as he continues to work in us and through us to help bring others to Him to know Him as the great "I AM".

1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

 

[electedbyHim]

Signs are given to those of unbelief to help draw them into Christ as those who already believe in Christ need no signs and wonders, but already believe in the works of Christ. These signs and wonders that are gifts from the Holy Spirit were first given to the Apostles as being the first ones to receive the empowerment of Holy Spirit for the furtherment of the ministry of Christ here on earth when He ascended up to heaven.

Remember when John the baptist said in Matthew 3:11 he (Jesus) he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire, the fire is the empowerment of Jesus in all those who have received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. This same power and authority that the Apostles received is the same power and authority of Christ also given to all who have been Spiritually born again from above and are baptized in Christ receiving the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. These same gifts are still in existence as they were yesterday, today and forever. All the gifts are for the purpose of the ministry of Christ that we follow in His footsteps through these very same signs and wonders that He first showed in being the great "I AM" as he continues to work in us and through us to help bring others to Him to know Him as the great "I AM".

1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Remember when John the baptist said in Matthew 3:11 he (Jesus) he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire, the fire is the empowerment of Jesus in all those who have received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Fire about judgement in this context. I am not sure where you got that interpretation from about being baptized with fire.


Matthew 3:11 "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Three types of baptism are referred to here: (1) with water unto repentance. John's baptism symbolized cleansing (see note on Mat_3:6); (2) with the Holy Spirit. All believers in Christ are Spirit-baptized (1Co_12:13); and (3) with … fire. Because fire is used throughout this context as a means of judgment (Mat_3:10, Mat_3:12), here it refers to a baptism of judgment upon the unrepentant.


Grace and peace to you

 

[hawkman]

Here are 6 proofs that it has already ceased:

1) The apostles, through whom tongues came, were unique in the history of the church. Once their ministry was accomplished, the need for authenticating signs ceased to exist.

2) The miracle (or sign) gifts are only mentioned in the earliest Epistles, such as 1 Corinthians. Later books, such as Ephesians and Romans, contain detailed passages on the gifts of the Spirit, but the miracle gifts are not mentioned (although Romans does mention the gift of prophecy, the Greek word translated prophecy mean “speaking forth” and does not necessarily include prediction of the future).

3) The gift of tongues was a sign to unbelieving Israel that God’s salvation was now available to other nations. See 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 and Isaiah 28:11-12.

4) Tongues were an inferior gift to prophecy (preaching). Preaching the Word of God edifies believers, whereas tongues do not. Believers are told to seek prophesying over speaking in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:1-3).

5) History indicates that tongues did cease. Tongues are not mentioned at all by the Post-Apostolic Fathers. Other writers such as Justin Martyr, Origen, Chrysostom, and Augustine considered tongues something that happened only in the earliest days of the Church.

6) Current observation confirms that the miracle of tongues has ceased. If the gift were still available today, there would be no need for missionaries to attend language school. Missionaries would be able to travel to any country and speak any language fluently, just as the apostles were able to speak in Acts 2.

As for the miracle gift of healing, we see in Scripture that healing was associated with the ministry of Jesus and the apostles (Luke 9:1-2). And we see that as the era of the apostles drew to a close, healing, like tongues, became less frequent.

The Apostle Paul, who raised Eutychus from the dead (Acts 20:9-12), did not heal:

• Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25-27)
• Trophimus (2 Timothy 4:20)
• Timothy (1 Timothy 5:23)
• Himself (2 Corinthians 12:7-9).

The reasons for Paul’s “failures to heal” are:

A) the gift was never intended to make every Christian well, but to authenticate apostleship;
B) the authority of the apostles had been sufficiently proved, making further miracles unnecessary.

The reasons stated above are evidence that the sign gifts have ceased. According to 1 Corinthians 13:13-14:1, we would do well to “pursue love,” the greatest gift of all. If we are to desire gifts, we should desire to speak forth the Word of God, that all may be edified.

Do you write for the " Got Questions" web site?
Is cessationism biblical?

 

[electedbyHim]

Do you write for the " Got Questions" web site?
Is cessationism biblical?

I do not.

Great website and much to learn from it.

I have many studies from them.

 

[for_his_glory]

Fire about judgement in this context. I am not sure where you got that interpretation from about being baptized with fire.

Fire as being empowerment by the Holy Spirit which is God's power and authority working in us and through us for His purpose in ministry.

 

[electedbyHim]

Fire as being empowerment by the Holy Spirit which is God's power and authority working in us and through us for His purpose in ministry.

I was pointing out that fire refers to judgment in the scripture you posted.

Matthew 3:11 "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

 

[eddif]

I was pointing out that fire refers to judgment in the scripture you posted.

Matthew 3:11 "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

We meet people on both sides of the fire issue.
Some do see the burning off of the dross. If that is you then quote the personal scriptures you believe. Maybe even the saved as by fire scripture. Or maybe rod and staff scriptures.
But my commentary and buddies believe this……

eddif

 

[electedbyHim]

We meet people on both sides of the fire issue.
Some do see the burning off of the dross. If that is you then quote the personal scriptures you believe. Maybe even the saved as by fire scripture. Or maybe rod and staff scriptures.
But my commentary and buddies believe this……

eddif

I did quote what fire represented in Matthew 3:11

Here in context...its about judgement. No one can deny this to be wrong.

Mat 3:10 “And the axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 3:11 “As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Mat 3:12 “His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

 

[eddif]

I did quote what fire represented in Matthew 3:11

Here in context...its about judgement. No one can deny this to be wrong.

Mat 3:10 “And the axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 3:11 “As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Mat 3:12 “His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

Ok
Revision time;
Fire passion that motivates
Fire that removes dross
Fire that destroys
Fire that punishes for eternity
Other?

Mention Fire and:
199 people may all see the same fire
Or there may be a split
Or splits

Some may not see different fires.

This is where we learn.

eddif

 

[electedbyHim]

Ok
Revision time;
Fire passion that motivates
Fire that removes dross
Fire that destroys
Fire that punishes for eternity
Other?

Mention Fire and:
199 people may all see the same fire
Or there may be a split
Or splits

Some may not see different fires.

This is where we learn.

eddif

This is fire that refers to judgement within this context of this scripture.

Of course, anyone can make this word fire say anything they want it too in this context, but they would be wrong.