Child Baptism?

[JM]

I say no.

Some compare baptism to circumcision...

The Jewish covenants are based on works, ex. law, circumcision.

The new covenant is based on grace, ex. confession of faith, belief.

The Jew included his son in the works of the law for the law was/is external.

Now that we are under Grace the outer workings of Baptism are a product of our belief in our Salvation and are not needed.

To get the ball rolling,
Scofield

 

[Vic C.]

Like an old spiritual mentor said to me, "a little sprinkling of water on the forehead just doesn't cut it."

:angel:

 

[Mike01075]

When it comes to dedicating your life to the Lord, no one should do it for you. It's between you and the Lord.

But I have heard "The Blessing of Little Children."

 

[tourniquet]

child baptism

What if the child has surpassed the so-called "age of accountability," believes on the Lord Jesus Christ and His gospel, and is born again?

Then by all means, let him/her be baptized.

The above poll is a very loaded question, very vaguely worded.

Tourniquet

 

[Vic C.]

I think maybe Sco meant 'infant baptism'? Not to be confused with 'dedication' of an infant. (remember, even Jesus was 'dedicated' when He was VERY young, but not baptized until He was 30!)

Hey, last week, we had a seven year old stand up in front of the congregation and say she wanted to be baptized. God bless her!

:lilangel:

 

[presbuteros]

Baptism is a SACRAMENT.

God IS active in the waters of baptism.

The Church has baptized babies from it's very earliest days and there was never any negative words ever said against it. It is apparant that those who were taught by the Apostles believed in the baptism of babies, and don't forget, the Apostles were taught by Christ Himself.

Also, the Scriptures are not specific on this subject. No one has been able to come up with a definitive answer based soley on Scriptures. Therefore, we must rely on the teaching of the Church, which has had unchanging doctrine and practices since the beginning.

 

[Quath]

What is gained by having a baby baptized? Is it's soul forever saved? Does God want for us to have the freedom to reject Him?

Quath

 

[Henry]

uhmm presb the early church did not batise babies, you find no text in the word to support it, and as for circumsission that was only a dedication to the Lord, a promise to stay in covnent with the Lord, not the baby but the parents, to rase the baby in he ways of the Lord.

And people have spoke out against it since it first began, the church at alarge has not been acceopting of the practice of batisingn infints, onl yht e caltholic church has been, and they are wacked out to start with.

IN the bible only those who came to faith in JEsus were batised, Paul taught us that the faith comes first then the batism which is the sign of the covenent of grace.

As for dedication that is fine, and biblical, we are taught to rase our children in the way that they should go, and when they are older they will not depart form it, this is a good thing to do.

Dedication of babies, good thing, batism pointless and vanity, it only satifies the needs of the people to fullfill a rituall and has no salvatoinal value what so ever.

Oh quath, God does not want you to have power to reject him, that is silly, you need not power to do that you do it naturall in your sinfull heart, God wants you to have power to accept and know him, this is true power and requires a new nature to be imparted on you, but in your current hatefilled attitude toward God I would not expect you to come close to understnading that in rejectino you are bound and tied, in acceptance you are free.

 

[Mr Shadrack]

In my church(Cof E) i had to be confirmed before i could help serve communion and baptised before i could be confirmed.The meaning of it all seemed to get lost in all the rules and regulations.
I have known churches refuse to baptize a person unless there parents have been baptised! Now how does that work?

Do you think a yearly baptism would be good,a sort of top up,like a vow re-newal.I do.Sort of refresh yourself.I know once is enough but it would be a nice offering.
Mr.Shadrack.

 

[JM]

In my church(Cof E) i had to be confirmed before i could help serve communion and baptised before i could be confirmed.The meaning of it all seemed to get lost in all the rules and regulations.
I have known churches refuse to baptize a person unless there parents have been baptised! Now how does that work?

Do you think a yearly baptism would be good,a sort of top up,like a vow re-newal.I do.Sort of refresh yourself.I know once is enough but it would be a nice offering.
Mr.Shadrack.

Baptism is the outward working of the inward Grace God gives to those who accept His call. Once is enough, but it is not needed to be saved. I studied with the Anglican Church of Canada to become a layreader but left looking for more answers, ended up in the Orthodox Church. God brought me out of Sinai and now I'm happy!

 

[presbuteros]

Scofield wrote:

Baptism is the outward working of the inward Grace God gives to those who accept His call.

Very nice turn of phrase, Scofield, which I myself used when I was a Prot, but could you quote me chapter and verse please. This phrase is an invention of Protestants who do NOT receive baptism as a Sacrament. They have invented the phrase to supplement their non-Scriptural doctrine. As I mentioned earlier, there are NO Scriptures to affirm or deny baby baptism. Period.


Henry wrote:

And people have spoke out against it since it first began, the church at alarge has not been acceopting of the practice of batisingn infints,

Could you please quote me some evidence from the first centuries for this statement, please.
The truth is, the Church has always accepted baby baptism. It is only since the so-called reformation (actually, revisionism) that Protestants threw out baby baptism.

Quath wrote:

What is gained by having a baby baptized?

Much in every way. God is effectual in the waters of baptism and is therefore effectual in the life of the child. Of course, it is still very important that the child's parents raise him in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

 

[Quath]

Much in every way. God is effectual in the waters of baptism and is therefore effectual in the life of the child. Of course, it is still very important that the child's parents raise him in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

I am not following this. Why would God favor some babies over others based on whether a preacher put some water on them? Is God suppose to be bound by the water and ceremony?

Quath

 

[JM]

Much in every way. God is effectual in the waters of baptism and is therefore effectual in the life of the child. Of course, it is still very important that the child's parents raise him in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

I am not following this. Why would God favor some babies over others based on whether a preacher put some water on them? Is God suppose to be bound by the water and ceremony?

Quath

That's what the Orthodox/Catholic teach, that you have to have the ceremony done according to tradition and that tradition is only valid when in union with a Bishop of the Orthodox Church. Catholics say all baptism is valid is the ceremony is done in the proper manner.

 

[presbuteros]

Quath wrote:

Why would God favor some babies over others based on whether a preacher put some water on them? Is God suppose to be bound by the water and ceremony?

God is NOT a respecter of persons, the Scriptures tell us. He is not willing that ANY should perish but that all should come to salvation.
In order to make Himself understood to the whole world, God sent His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to become man incarnate and to walk among us. Christ is the express image (ikon) of the Father.

This Son, the Christ, established the Church and through His Apostles gave the Holy Tradition under which the Church operates. This Tradition is NOT man-made traditions, as Scofield implies, but the Tradition (or Teaching) of God. This Tradition includes doctrines, beliefs and practices. These practices include such things as Holy Communion, fasting, tithing and baptism. Some of these practices cannot be explained (i.e. how they function) and are considered mysteries. Mysteries because they are of God and well above us. All we can do is accept them with joy. We partake of the "Body and Blood" of Christ because He tells us to - and this Sacrament gives us life and strength. How? We cannot explain - it is a mystery of God. But it does 'work'. Likewise, baptism. We cannot explain how it cleanses and works, but it does.

Remember, Quath, we are dealing with God here, who is supra-rational. That is, His logic is well above and beyond anything that we can comprehend.
Hope this helps.

 

[presbuteros]

Scofield, the Orthodox Church has held the Sacrament of Baptism for 2000 years. How long have you and your particular group held the non-sacramental nature of baptism?

If you have no evidence to the contrary, you would be wise to hold your tongue.

 

[Henry]

Pres uhh duhh like the bible... you will not find find one instance of a baby who is batised in the bible, ONLY you will find people who are batised AFTER they have come to faith in JEsus.

Paul taught that batism is what we do to show htat we are in the new convenant of Grace, the saying it is an outward act.... is not created by the prodestants it is taken from the very teaching of the apostle Paul.

This the problem when you let tradition have more power the the word of God, sorry but baby batism does not go back to the early church, it came after constintine and was protested from the very start by men and wemons the cathoics killed for their protesting.

Quath

As sco... said it is a catholic traditon that babies are batised, they get is by using the old jewish deal were babies were curcumsized on the eighth day, to show they were in covenant of God, the early church explained that this is not the thing that makes the covenant but rather the thing we do to seal it as it were.

The book of Galations I beleive talks to this matter, If you are interested I'll double check that for you.

Henry

Oh by the way your honest questions in this room are nice. (smile)

 

[Oats]

yup

my pastors son was baptized to day

 

[elijah23]

I say no.

Some compare baptism to circumcision...

The Jewish covenants are based on works, ex. law, circumcision.

The new covenant is based on grace, ex. confession of faith, belief.

The Jew included his son in the works of the law for the law was/is external.

Now that we are under Grace the outer workings of Baptism are a product of our belief in our Salvation and are not needed.

To get the ball rolling,
Scofield

Some people think you go to hell if you don’t get baptized, so they have their kids baptized at the earliest possible moment.

Other people think a person should decide on their own whether or not they should be baptized.

They are both well-intentioned groups of people, aren’t they?

 

[Holly3278]

As an Episcopalian, I am for child/infant baptism. I believe that the Bible implies that whole families were baptized and those whole families more than likely included children as well.

A woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, a God-fearing woman, listened to us. The Lord opened her heart to respond to what Paul was saying. After she and her household were baptized, she urged us, "If you consider me to be a believer in the Lord, come and stay in my house." And she persuaded us.
(Acts 16:14-15 NET.)

Now as we were going to the place of prayer, a slave girl met us who had a spirit that enabled her to foretell the future by supernatural means. She brought her owners a great profit by fortune-telling. She followed behind Paul and us and kept crying out, "These men are servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you the way of salvation." She continued to do this for many days. But Paul became greatly annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!" And it came out of her at once. But when her owners saw their hope of profit was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace before the authorities. When they had brought them before the magistrates, they said, "These men are throwing our city into confusion. They are Jews and are advocating customs that are not lawful for us to accept or practice, since we are Romans." The crowd joined the attack against them, and the magistrates tore the clothes off Paul and Silas and ordered them to be beaten with rods. After they had beaten them severely, they threw them into prison and commanded the jailer to guard them securely. Receiving such orders, he threw them in the inner cell and fastened their feet in the stocks. About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the rest of the prisoners were listening to them. Suddenly a great earthquake occurred, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken. Immediately all the doors flew open, and the bonds of all the prisoners came loose. When the jailer woke up and saw the doors of the prison standing open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, because he assumed the prisoners had escaped. But Paul called out loudly, "Do not harm yourself, for we are all here!" Calling for lights, the jailer rushed in and fell down trembling at the feet of Paul and Silas. Then he brought them outside and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household." Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him, along with all those who were in his house. At that hour of the night he took them and washed their wounds; then he and all his family were baptized right away.
(Acts 16:16-33 NET.)

(I also baptized the household of Stephanus. Otherwise, I do not remember whether I baptized anyone else.)
(1 Corinthians 1:16 NET.)

 

[Scotth1960]

Re: child baptism

What if the child has surpassed the so-called "age of accountability," believes on the Lord Jesus Christ and His gospel, and is born again?

Then by all means, let him/her be baptized.

The above poll is a very loaded question, very vaguely worded.

Tourniquet

Where does Scripture teach "the age of accountability"? All people are accountable to God, including infants, who have no personal sins. But they are born mortal. Baptism takes away sin, as well as is for the remission (forgiveness) of sins. Infants should be baptized too because this is what the Church of all times and places has always said and done. More adult believers should be baptized too.