Child Baptism?

[francisdesales]

so what's the point? i mean to be from the curse of adam. doesnt that mean that we are saved and well sinless.

Original sin is a state of separation between man and God. Baptism changes that status because God comes to us in a particular way, making us children of God. We have been given an inheritance. We are saved, at that moment. However, we can choose to later reject that inheritance, to disown it. That is why the Christian life is a walk, not a one-time decision. So while baptism marks the beginning of that walk, we can certainly later decide to move off that path and go in a different direction.

i hope that you see the totaly pointless of baptising that infant , when surely you realise that your statement say that he has been made sinless(free from the curse that the cross does for all that believe).

We are made free at that time. A simple check of our own experiences indicate that we do not REMAIN free from sin. We all continue to sin. Subsequent sin can again makes us slaves to sin. The cross provides redemption for man, but only becomes effective when men utilize the graces won at the cross. We don't move to autopilot, we don't become robots, and our decisions still effect our eternal destiny.

so the cross isnt enough for salvation?if the child is positional right before god becuause of actions by you, then wouldnt that mean that if he or she dies the next day its in heaven.

The infant goes to heaven the next day specifically because the Value of the Cross is applied to the infant as a result of Baptism. That infant died in Christ and has risen again (Romans 6:2-3)

and also what if the another child who lives one month dies?

are they not also in heaven?

Sure. That is why we baptize infants. God has promised that a person who is baptized is born from above. The child cannot reject God at that point, so there would be no negative action that would prevent God from honoring that promise He makes to those who are baptized.

both were to young to know what sin is. surely you agree where there is the law there is sin. if no law then no sin.

a baby doesnt know what sin is? so why would you bother trying to save a person who is innocent of sin?

A baby is not innocent of original sin.

Regards

 

[jasoncran]

so the offical rcc stance is all the millions aborted babies are in hell?

i doubt that.

so the sinner according to you must repent twice?

meaning this
baptism
and also when he realises he is old enough to know what the lord

the argument i counter with is
the thief on the cross.

all that is needed then is to believe

if you have time to believe then you will bear fruit that is if you live long enough

 

[Scotth1960]

Original sin is a state of separation between man and God. Baptism changes that status because God comes to us in a particular way, making us children of God. We have been given an inheritance. We are saved, at that moment. However, we can choose to later reject that inheritance, to disown it. That is why the Christian life is a walk, not a one-time decision. So while baptism marks the beginning of that walk, we can certainly later decide to move off that path and go in a different direction.



We are made free at that time. A simple check of our own experiences indicate that we do not REMAIN free from sin. We all continue to sin. Subsequent sin can again makes us slaves to sin. The cross provides redemption for man, but only becomes effective when men utilize the graces won at the cross. We don't move to autopilot, we don't become robots, and our decisions still effect our eternal destiny.



The infant goes to heaven the next day specifically because the Value of the Cross is applied to the infant as a result of Baptism. That infant died in Christ and has risen again (Romans 6:2-3)



Sure. That is why we baptize infants. God has promised that a person who is baptized is born from above. The child cannot reject God at that point, so there would be no negative action that would prevent God from honoring that promise He makes to those who are baptized.



A baby is not innocent of original sin.

Regards

Friends, The Eastern Church does not teach the Augustinian doctrine of original sin in its Western form. It teaches that man is born mortal, and mortal men are subject to committing personal sin. No baby is guilty of Adam's sin, of original sin. Babies are born innocent. But they are mortal, and the ancestral sin is in each baby in inherited mortality. It is mortality, not sin, that is inherited. A person is guilty of sin only when they sin, according to Ezekiel 18. Not the sins of others, which cannot be counted against them. All people sin, because all people have the tendency to know good and evil. People are born with the knowledge of good and evil, and with inherent mortality, will not live forever unless born again in Christ. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington PS See Father John Romanides' book, "The Ancestral Sin". Online, Amazon.com at GOOGLE.

 

[francisdesales]

so the offical rcc stance is all the millions aborted babies are in hell?

i doubt that.

I didn't say that, Jason. We commit these innocents to the mercy of God. We truly do not know what happens to them. But we are urged to baptize our children if we have the opportunity.

so the sinner according to you must repent twice?

Nor did I say that. Baptism frees us from all sin, both personal and original. Subsequent sin must be repented, since that future sin was not forgiven at baptism.

the argument i counter with is
the thief on the cross.

all that is needed then is to believe.

We presume he repented, as well.

if you have time to believe then you will bear fruit that is if you live long enough

No doubt God takes every case into consideration and judges justly.

Regards

 

[jasoncran]

i wasnt attacking you, just trying to see how you define baptism. there problem is this we protestants have such a different view on baptism.

 

[A-Christian]

problem is this we protestants have such a different view on baptism.

Different view? Don't you men differnet views?

 

[jasoncran]

Different view? Don't you men differnet views?

your view says baptism is needed for salvation most protestants dont teach that, and also one must actually be aware of sin , ie not just be a human but actually have sinned and know it, and desire to repent from that sin.

baptism to me is a reflection of the death and resurrection of the lord and myself with him