Child Baptism?

[Alabaster]

Baptism does not remove sin. It represents the washing away of our sin by our faith in Jesus Christ, dying to sin and rising again to the new life in Christ.

By the time one consents to baptism, one's sins have already been washed away by the blood of Jesus.

Sinners are not invited to be baptized---only believers.

1 Corinthians 6:11 NLT
Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

We are washed and made holy by the Spirit of God, not by any water, but by the Living Water!

John 4:10;14 NLT
Jesus replied, “If you only knew the gift God has for you and who you are speaking to, you would ask me, and I would give you living water.”

But those who drink the water I give will never be thirsty again. It becomes a fresh, bubbling spring within them, giving them eternal life.”

Nothing but the blood!

1 John 1:7 NLT
But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

 

[Mike]

I can say that this has somewhat recently become my biggest doctrinal change since coming to true faith in my 20's. And it is still a process of letting it absorb fully. If this particular belief were a football field, I'd have passed the 50 yard line and inching my way down field (moving sideways sometimes). Having been brought up in the Catholic church and making the easy transition to the Lutheran church where infants are baptized as well, this barge is not easily turned.

I struggle when I see babies being baptized these days, and from all appearances (can't judge the heart), the parents are doing this simply because "it's the thing to do". Here you have a situation where the infant is not repenting of anything, and the parents might have little intention of bringing him/her up in the faith (which is what they are pledging to the Lord). I just have come to lean towards dedicating an infant and allowing him/her to decide when he/she feels they've been called to be baptized.

Here's the irony. I'm a substitute mentor for teens in my church who are going through a two-year confirmation program, and I was called to sub this week and next to lead a group of 6 teens in a small group discussion. Guess what the subject of these particular two weeks is... yup... baptism. "Lord, what are You doing!!??" I was contemplating telling the youth minister I would be unable to sub these two weeks, but I did it for week 1. To be honest, I didn't talk about baptism much. I tried to have a heart-to-heart with the kids, urging them to fight off the distractions of teen life and seek the Lord in a deeply meaningful way. I've been vexed about these meetings and in prayer. "Lord, please tell me what You would have me say to kids on a subject that I have come to disagree with my church on?"

 

[pjt]

I can`t answer the question because I don`t know if you mean baby baptism which I don`t think is Biblical or do you mean child baptism vs adult baptism. I don`t think someone has to be an adult to be baptized although I know some believe that. I think any child that is old enough to express a desire and understanding of baptism is Biblically ready for Baptism but it needs to come from the child not the parent and I don`t think there is any set age since all children develop and mature differently.

 

[Alabaster]

Hi, Mike! I found this site. Maybe it can help a bit. There are a few articles you can click on.

http://www.born-again-christian.info/water.baptism.htm

 

[Free]

Since many seem to be against baptizing infants, perhaps they can provide Scriptural evidence for baby dedications, as is common in Evangelical circles.

 

[Alabaster]

Dedicating children is really an opportunity for parents to come before the fellowship and declare their devotion to raising their children in the nurture and the admonition of the Lord.

Ephesians 6:4b NLT
...bring them up with the discipline and instruction that comes from the Lord.

It is an opportunity for us as a congregation to support and stand behind Christian families among us, determined to add to what the parents already pledge to do by pledging ourselves to the task of walking before these children as people worthy of emulation.

It is also an opportunity for the entire body to pray for the child and the parents, that God will bless them and keep them all in His care---especially the child, that he or she grow up in Christ, meeting all challenges well.

 

[Free]

Dedicating children is really an opportunity for parents to come before the fellowship and declare their devotion to raising their children in the nurture and the admonition of the Lord.

Ephesians 6:4b NLT
...bring them up with the discipline and instruction that comes from the Lord.

It is an opportunity for us as a congregation to support and stand behind Christian families among us, determined to add to what the parents already pledge to do by pledging ourselves to the task of walking before these children as people worthy of emulation.

It is also an opportunity for the entire body to pray for the child and the parents, that God will bless them and keep them all in His care---especially the child, that he or she grow up in Christ, meeting all challenges well.

I know what a baby dedication is all about. What I asked was for biblical support for doing it.

 

[Alabaster]

I know what a baby dedication is all about. What I asked was for biblical support for doing it.

Apart from Jesus' words, here:
But Jesus said, “Let the children come to me. Don’t stop them! For the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to those who are like these children.” in Matthew 19:14 NLT, there is no biblical mandate to perform rites of dedication of our children.

It is just one of those traditions that the Church has developed. It's good, but not vital. Hopefully all Christian parents make a pledge to God if not publically, but privately regarding the upbringing of their children, His wonderful gifts to us.

 

[WalkingOnAir]

I think that a child should not be indoctrinated into any belief system that will define their life until the age or reason then they can make their own decision. Wether that be Islam, Christianity, Atheism, etc.

 

[Jael]

In Acts 8, the Ethiopian eunuch specifically asked Philip what was stopping him from being baptized...and Philip gave him only one requirement:

Act 8:36 And as they went on [their] way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, [here is] water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (KJV)

Many children have to come Christ at young ages, fully accepting the gospel and being born again - of course they should be baptized. But a baby cannot place its faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore cannot fulfill the one and only requirement Philip named: belief.

 

[pjt]

Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (KJV)
[/COLOR]

Good scripture reference Jael. And I made a very interesting discovery from you bringing out this scripture. I mostly read KJV but I happen to have a catholic Bible and by chance I just picked it up and read it. To my amazement it completely takes this scripture out! It does not fill anything in it just goes v. 36 to v. 38. Amazing!

 

[francisdesales]

I can say that this has somewhat recently become my biggest doctrinal change since coming to true faith in my 20's. And it is still a process of letting it absorb fully. If this particular belief were a football field, I'd have passed the 50 yard line and inching my way down field (moving sideways sometimes). Having been brought up in the Catholic church and making the easy transition to the Lutheran church where infants are baptized as well, this barge is not easily turned.

I struggle when I see babies being baptized these days, and from all appearances (can't judge the heart), the parents are doing this simply because "it's the thing to do". Here you have a situation where the infant is not repenting of anything, and the parents might have little intention of bringing him/her up in the faith (which is what they are pledging to the Lord). I just have come to lean towards dedicating an infant and allowing him/her to decide when he/she feels they've been called to be baptized.

Here's the irony. I'm a substitute mentor for teens in my church who are going through a two-year confirmation program, and I was called to sub this week and next to lead a group of 6 teens in a small group discussion. Guess what the subject of these particular two weeks is... yup... baptism. "Lord, what are You doing!!??" I was contemplating telling the youth minister I would be unable to sub these two weeks, but I did it for week 1. To be honest, I didn't talk about baptism much. I tried to have a heart-to-heart with the kids, urging them to fight off the distractions of teen life and seek the Lord in a deeply meaningful way. I've been vexed about these meetings and in prayer. "Lord, please tell me what You would have me say to kids on a subject that I have come to disagree with my church on?"

Mike,

Perhaps you could stress how infant baptism best points out that God's grace is completely free. Nothing we do, even our own faith, earns anything. We are born from above as a result of God's blessings. Naturally, the infant can do nothing to deserve anything.

Regards

 

[jasoncran]

an almost calvinistic position.

 

[francisdesales]

an almost calvinistic position.

It's a fine line - between recognizing that God takes the initiative, while realizing that man must respond.

Regards

 

[stovebolts]

Mike,

Perhaps you could stress how infant baptism best points out that God's grace is completely free. Nothing we do, even our own faith, earns anything. We are born from above as a result of God's blessings. Naturally, the infant can do nothing to deserve anything.

Regards

Then what is the purpose of having an infant baptized? They won't even remember this event in their lives.

As a note, to what you say above, could we not,.. no... Should this also be understood by an Adult at their baptism?

Baptism is not a line in the sand between heaven and hell, and it is not a work of man. To what end then does it serve in an infants life toward salvation?

 

[Free]

Apart from Jesus' words, here:
But Jesus said, “Let the children come to me. Don’t stop them! For the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to those who are like these children.†in Matthew 19:14 NLT, there is no biblical mandate to perform rites of dedication of our children.

It is just one of those traditions that the Church has developed. It's good, but not vital. Hopefully all Christian parents make a pledge to God if not publically, but privately regarding the upbringing of their children, His wonderful gifts to us.

It is a tradition and probably a relatively new one at at that. But if there is no biblical support for a baby dedication, then why are people against infant baptism?

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Baptism is a SACRAMENT.

The Church has baptized babies from it's very earliest days and there was never any negative words ever said against it. It is apparant that those who were taught by the Apostles believed in the baptism of babies, and don't forget, the Apostles were taught by Christ Himself.

Also, the Scriptures are not specific on this subject. No one has been able to come up with a definitive answer based soley on Scriptures. Therefore, we must rely on the teaching of the Church, which has had unchanging doctrine and practices since the beginning.

Here is the issue with this line of thinking, it grants too much authority to a religious institution as opposed to the word of God. It matters not what the church teaches or authories, what matters is what God has declared on a subject (let God be true and every man a liar).

Based solely on the scriptures we can see definitively that baptism is always and without exception an immersion of a consenting human being that understands the reasoning behind it. Those who were baptized according to John's baptism knew it was a baptism of repentance and those who were baptized into the Anointed One (Christ) realized that it was their entring into a covenant relationship with God's Anointed One.

 

[A-Christian]

Paul notes that baptism has replaced circumcision (Col. 2:11–12). In that passage, he refers to baptism as "the circumcision of Christ" and "the circumcision made without hands." Of course, usually only infants were circumcised under the Old Law; circumcision of adults was rare, since there were few converts to Judaism. If Paul meant to exclude infants, he would not have chosen circumcision as a parallel for baptism.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

The issue here is not the "rightness" of child or infact baptism, it is the usefulness and relavence of it. From a scriptural point of view, it is a purely useless act. So should parents have their child baptised? I guess if they want to, why not, just don't expect it to have any spiritual significance.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Paul notes that baptism has replaced circumcision (Col. 2:11–12). In that passage, he refers to baptism as "the circumcision of Christ" and "the circumcision made without hands." Of course, usually only infants were circumcised under the Old Law; circumcision of adults was rare, since there were few converts to Judaism. If Paul meant to exclude infants, he would not have chosen circumcision as a parallel for baptism.

The parallel of baptism and circumcision has nothing to do with the age of those who were involved. What both represent is a sign of a covenant relationship. The people of OT National Israel were born into a covenant relationship with God, therefore the sign of the covenant, circumcision was applied on the 8th day after birth, whereas followers of Jesus DECIDE to follow him, therefore, the sign of the covenant, baptism is applied AFTER the decision to be party to the covenant is made.