Bible Study Children of Seth?

[dianegcook]

I have to object to the preexistence of man idea, as I don't believe it is biblical. Jesus was the only one preexistent who was incarnated, since John the Baptist said "He existed before me," even though John was physically 6 months older than Jesus. So John was acknowledging Jesus' preexistence, and at the same time denying his own preexistence.
TD

Job 40:15
The dinosaurs were made with Job.
The dinosaurs were made during the 1st earth age. I believe there is a gap, between Gen.1:1 and Gen.1:2
In Gen.1:1
God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen.1:2
And the earth was (became)without form, and void.... due to the katabole, rebellion of Satan, overthrow
was, Strong's #1961, Hebrew, be or become, come to pass
Jer.4:23-27
I beheld the earth, and lo, it was without form, and void, Strong's #922 ruin
I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
I beheld, and lo, there was no man, and all the birds of heaven fled.
I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger.

Dinosaur fossils have been found in the Tundra, Artic, that still had a daisy in its mouth, thus sudden destruction.
The earth tilts on its axis, 23 1/2 degree now, that is why we have different climates around the world, if the axis was straight, we would have the same climate all year round.
I believe God shook the earth, thus causing, per se ice age.
The dinosaurs were dead before this earth age.

Jer.1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before THOU came forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee....
Rom.9:11-13
Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated..
For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil....
Ecc.12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the Spirit return unto God who gave it.
Return, was there before...

Reject it if you want, lol.

 

[dianegcook]

Sorry, I meant 9' 6". my brain and typing refuse to cooperate, LOL. Good catch

By my sources, Companion Study Bible
6 Cubits and a span..Goliath
Cubits = ranging between 21 and 25 inches
Span=half a cubit.
To make it easier for calculation, lol, 2 feet to each cubit, that makes it 12 feet and a span , 13 ft there abouts...

 

[dianegcook]

Job 40:15
The dinosaurs were made with Job.
The dinosaurs were made during the 1st earth age. I believe there is a gap, between Gen.1:1 and Gen.1:2
In Gen.1:1
God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen.1:2
And the earth was (became)without form, and void.... due to the katabole, rebellion of Satan, overthrow
was, Strong's #1961, Hebrew, be or become, come to pass
Jer.4:23-27
I beheld the earth, and lo, it was without form, and void, Strong's #922 ruin
I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
I beheld, and lo, there was no man, and all the birds of heaven fled.
I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger.

Dinosaur fossils have been found in the Tundra, Artic, that still had a daisy in its mouth, thus sudden destruction.
The earth tilts on its axis, 23 1/2 degree now, that is why we have different climates around the world, if the axis was straight, we would have the same climate all year round.
I believe God shook the earth, thus causing, per se ice age.
The dinosaurs were dead before this earth age.

Jer.1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before THOU came forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee....
Rom.9:11-13
Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated..
For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil....
Ecc.12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the Spirit return unto God who gave it.
Return, was there before...

Reject it if you want, lol.

Here is another gap..dispensation
Luke 4:17-21
There was given Him the book of Esaias, He opened the book, found the place where it was written,
The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor, He hath sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Then He closed the book and sat down., and said,
This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears....

He was reading from Isa.61:1,2
The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me, because the Lord hath anointed Me to preach good tidings unto the meek, He hath sent Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound,
To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord....this is where He stopped reading, if He continued to read we would have,
And the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all that mourn.

Thus,right in the middle of the sentence, a gap..

 

[stovebolts]

Here is another gap..dispensation
Luke 4:17-21
There was given Him the book of Esaias, He opened the book, found the place where it was written,
The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor, He hath sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Then He closed the book and sat down., and said,
This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears....

He was reading from Isa.61:1,2
The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me, because the Lord hath anointed Me to preach good tidings unto the meek, He hath sent Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound,
To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord....this is where He stopped reading, if He continued to read we would have,
And the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all that mourn.

Thus,right in the middle of the sentence, a gap..

That's not a gap. Its a rabbinical practice of saying something without saying something and Jesus used this practice frequently.

Most notable is when John writes to Jesus and asks if he will get out of prison. Jesus replies no.

 

[dianegcook]

These Nephilim, and their branch of Rephaim, were associated with Egypt, we have the explanation of how those huge stones and monuments were brought together,Why not in Egypt as well in the giant cities of Bashan, which exist, as such, to this day.
We have in these mighty men, the men of renown thus the origin of the Greek Mythology.
It was not just a mere invention of the human brain, but it grew out of the traditions, memories and legends of this mighty race of beings. The fact that they were supernatural in their origin, being regarded as the demi-gods of the Greeks.
Thus the Babylonian, "creation tablets", the Egyptian, "book of the dead", the Greek Mythology, and heathen Cosmogonies,.

They are of the corruption and perversion of primitive truths, distorted in proportion as their origin was forgotten, and their memories faded away.

 

[dianegcook]

That's not a gap. Its a rabbinical practice of saying something without saying something and Jesus used this practice frequently.

Most notable is when John writes to Jesus and asks if he will get out of prison. Jesus replies no.

Gap to me..
The day of vengeance of our God, was not fulfilled.
Jesus stated, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
He couldn't say, the day of vengeance of our God.

 

[for_his_glory]

Sounds like an interesting read. I knew of the Apocrypha of course but never read it as it was not part of the Canon. There is a reason for that. Part of it might be accurate and some of it not, even contradicting what is in the Canon so be careful. You are familiar enough with scripture to catch the differences I'm sure. And thanks for the info.

Going off topic for a bit.

The apocryphal books were said to be written around 200BCE and 400 CE. Many of these writings are found in part throughout the OT. The apocrypha are included in the lectionaries of Anglican and Lutheran Churches and many Protestant churches today as they are intertwined with OT readings. I feel they are all important enough to be read seeing they were found with the Dead Sea Scrolls as they were written way before the canon was decided that makes up the Bible today.

 

[stovebolts]

Gap to me..
The day of vengeance of our God, was not fulfilled.
Jesus stated, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
He couldn't say, the day of vengeance of our God.

Ok, let's look at Matthew 11. John is in prison and has his deciples ask Jesus, " art thou he that should come?"

John is quoting Zechariah 9 and covertly asking about verse 11.

When Jesus replies, he answers by quoting Isaiah 29 and does not mention Zachariah's prophesy on prisoners.

Now, this really falls in the wheelhouse of
FHG as she knows more about end times than I, but essentially Jesus is saying those in prison will be released on his second coming and yes, John will die in prison.

In this same way, we can view Luke 4.

 

[tdidymas]

Job 40:15
The dinosaurs were made with Job.
The dinosaurs were made during the 1st earth age. I believe there is a gap, between Gen.1:1 and Gen.1:2
In Gen.1:1
God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen.1:2
And the earth was (became)without form, and void.... due to the katabole, rebellion of Satan, overthrow
was, Strong's #1961, Hebrew, be or become, come to pass
Jer.4:23-27
I beheld the earth, and lo, it was without form, and void, Strong's #922 ruin
I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
I beheld, and lo, there was no man, and all the birds of heaven fled.
I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger.

Dinosaur fossils have been found in the Tundra, Artic, that still had a daisy in its mouth, thus sudden destruction.
The earth tilts on its axis, 23 1/2 degree now, that is why we have different climates around the world, if the axis was straight, we would have the same climate all year round.
I believe God shook the earth, thus causing, per se ice age.
The dinosaurs were dead before this earth age.

Jer.1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before THOU came forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee....
Rom.9:11-13
Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated..
For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil....
Ecc.12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the Spirit return unto God who gave it.
Return, was there before...

Reject it if you want, lol.

My goodness, you're all over the place here. It seems to me that if you think all these verses are related to the preexistence idea, then I would say emphatically that you're taking them out of context, and presuming a pretext into them. So yes, I still reject that idea. You can believe the moon is made of cheese if you want, but it doesn't make it true.
TD

 

[for_his_glory]

By my sources, Companion Study Bible
6 Cubits and a span..Goliath
Cubits = ranging between 21 and 25 inches
Span=half a cubit.
To make it easier for calculation, lol, 2 feet to each cubit, that makes it 12 feet and a span , 13 ft there abouts...

I had to rethink and recalculate all of this as I think Goliath was around 6'9".

A cubit is 18 inches and a span is 6 inches so this world make Goliath 9' 9". A Hebrew cubit is measured from the elbow to the tip of the middle finger. My husband's is 18" which makes him 6' tall and me being 5"3" he towers over me. Add a span that is 9" would make Goliath 6" 9" - 6 cubits and a span, 1 Samuel 17:4.

The Septuagint being a Greek translation of the Hebrew OT says Goliath was 4 cubits and a span which would make him 6' 9". The average height of a man in those days is said to be around 5'2" so he would have towered over the normal height of a man. Other sources that agree with this height of 6' 9" are among the Hebrew Dead Sea Scrolls and the writing of Josephus who was a Jewish historian. His bronze armor was 125 lbs. and he carried a large spear so he was a man of great strength.

The tallest man that possibly ever lived was Robert Wadlow who stood 8' 11".

 

[stovebolts]

I had to rethink and recalculate all of this as I think Goliath was around 6'9".

A cubit is 18 inches and a span is 6 inches so this world make Goliath 9' 9". A Hebrew cubit is measured from the elbow to the tip of the middle finger. My husband's is 18" which makes him 6' tall and me being 5"3" he towers over me. Add a span that is 9" would make Goliath 6" 9" - 6 cubits and a span, 1 Samuel 17:4.

The Septuagint being a Greek translation of the Hebrew OT says Goliath was 4 cubits and a span which would make him 6' 9". The average height of a man in those days is said to be around 5'2" so he would have towered over the normal height of a man. Other sources that agree with this height of 6' 9" are among the Hebrew Dead Sea Scrolls and the writing of Josephus who was a Jewish historian. His bronze armor was 125 lbs. and he carried a large spear so he was a man of great strength.

The tallest man that possibly ever lived was Robert Wadlow who stood 8' 11".

How much does the Septuagent say his armor weighed?

 

[stovebolts]

dianegcook
My sources are from Rabbi Nachmanide aka Ramban, Commentary on the Torah (page 100), Shiloh Publishing and RAbbi SHlomo Itzhaki aka Rashi via chabad.org.

KJV
Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Rabbi A.J. Rosenberg Torah.

Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 6 (Parshah Bereishit and Noach)

www.chabad.org

That the sons of the nobles saw the daughters of man when they were beautifying themselves, and they took for themselves wives from whomever they chose.

Commentary-
Rashi (partial):

the sons of the nobles: Heb. בְּנֵי הָאֱלֹהִים, the sons of the princes (Targumim) and the judges (Gen. Rabbah 26:5)

Ramban:
The sons of princes and rulers. This is the language of Rashi, and so it is in Bereshith Rabbah 26:8. If so, Scripture relates that the judges whose duty it was to administer justice among them committed open violence without anyone interfering.

'KI' (WHEN) THEY WERE FAIR. [ The meaning of the word ki here] is the same as in verses: 'Ki' (when) thou seest the ass of him that hateth thee: (Exodus 23:5); 'ki' (when) a bird's nest chance to be before thee. (Deuteronomy 22:6).
When the daughters of me were fair, they would take them frcibly as wives for themselves. Thus Scripture tells of the violence and mentions further, 'whomsoever they chose', in order to include those who were married to others. Scripture, however, did not mention the prohibition concerning them clearly, and the punishment decreed upon them was only because the violence, (verse 13) because this is a reasoned concept and does not require the Torah to prohibit it.

 

[stovebolts]

dianegcook

KJV
Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 6 (Parshah Bereishit and Noach)

www.chabad.org

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of the nobles would come to the daughters of man, and they would bear for them; they are the mighty men, who were of old, the men of renown.

Rashi:
The Nephilim: [They were called נְפִילִים because they fell (נָפְלוּ) and caused the world to fall (הִפִּילוּ) (Gen. Rabbah 26:7), and in the Hebrew language it means giants (Pirkei d’Rabbi Eliezer, ch. 22 and Targum Jonathan).

Ramban:
Rashi comments:"[They were called nephilim because] they fell (naphlu) and caused the downfall (hipilu) of the world." This is found in Bereshith Rabbah 26:16 the master of language (found in R'dak) say that they [ the nephelim ] were so called because the heart of men fell from fear of them. The same applies to the word ha'eimin (Genesis 14:5. Eimah means terror. The Eimim thus induced terror into the hearts of those who saw them.

The commentary goes on for two and a half pages. Here is a snipit from page 102.
The correct interpretation appears to me that Adam and his wife are called bnei ha'elohim because they were G-d's handiwork and He was their Father; they had no father besides Him. And he [Adam] begot many children, as it is written, 'And he begot sons and daughters'. Now these men, first to be born of a father and mother, were of great perfection in height and strength because they were born in the likeness of their father, as it is written concerning Seth, 'And he [Adam] begot a son in his own likeness, after his image (vs 3). And it is possiblethat all the children of the first generations - Adam, Seth, Enosh - were called beni ha'elhim because these three men were in teh likeness of G-d. But when worship of idols commenced, and the came upon men a weakness and slackness.

There is a page and a half more of this...

On a personal note, it's pretty hard to beat Orthodox Jewish commentary especially when they have the key to understanding words correctly.

As a side note, Strongs is only a reference. It does not tell you what the word means but rather, how it was translated in other places. It is far, far from authoritative and should only be used as reference and nothing more.

 

[for_his_glory]

Job 40:15
The dinosaurs were made with Job.
The dinosaurs were made during the 1st earth age. I believe there is a gap, between Gen.1:1 and Gen.1:2
In Gen.1:1
God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen.1:2
And the earth was (became)without form, and void.... due to the katabole, rebellion of Satan, overthrow
was, Strong's #1961, Hebrew, be or become, come to pass
Jer.4:23-27
I beheld the earth, and lo, it was without form, and void, Strong's #922 ruin
I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
I beheld, and lo, there was no man, and all the birds of heaven fled.
I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger.

Dinosaur fossils have been found in the Tundra, Artic, that still had a daisy in its mouth, thus sudden destruction.
The earth tilts on its axis, 23 1/2 degree now, that is why we have different climates around the world, if the axis was straight, we would have the same climate all year round.
I believe God shook the earth, thus causing, per se ice age.
The dinosaurs were dead before this earth age.

Jer.1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before THOU came forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee....
Rom.9:11-13
Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated..
For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil....
Ecc.12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the Spirit return unto God who gave it.
Return, was there before...

Reject it if you want, lol.

There is no gap. I don't know what this katabole thing is with Satan as I've never heard of it, but, God set him in the garden of Eden before the creation of man and this is where iniquity was found in him, Ezekiel 28:11-15.

Genesis 1:20-25 God created every living species of water life, fowl and animals that roamed the earth before He created Adam in whom God called him to name all of them.

Job 40:15 these are the dinosaurs God made along with His creation of man which still existed in Job's time as Job was also created by God.

God did know each of us before we were born as His breath/spirit is what made us a living soul and it is that same breath/spirit that goes back to Him when we physically die, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.

 

[for_his_glory]

These Nephilim, and their branch of Rephaim, were associated with Egypt, we have the explanation of how those huge stones and monuments were brought together,Why not in Egypt as well in the giant cities of Bashan, which exist, as such, to this day.
We have in these mighty men, the men of renown thus the origin of the Greek Mythology.
It was not just a mere invention of the human brain, but it grew out of the traditions, memories and legends of this mighty race of beings. The fact that they were supernatural in their origin, being regarded as the demi-gods of the Greeks.
Thus the Babylonian, "creation tablets", the Egyptian, "book of the dead", the Greek Mythology, and heathen Cosmogonies,.

They are of the corruption and perversion of primitive truths, distorted in proportion as their origin was forgotten, and their memories faded away.

I would like to read your source for this.

 

[stovebolts]

I would like to read your source for this.

I actually have many of the Egyptian writings, so I could verify if she gives a section.

Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament with Supplement: Pritchard, James B.: 9780691035031: Amazon.com: Books

Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament with Supplement [Pritchard, James B.] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament with Supplement

www.amazon.com

 

[for_his_glory]

Ok, let's look at Matthew 11. John is in prison and has his deciples ask Jesus, " art thou he that should come?"

John is quoting Zechariah 9 and covertly asking about verse 11.

When Jesus replies, he answers by quoting Isaiah 29 and does not mention Zachariah's prophesy on prisoners.

Now, this really falls in the wheelhouse of
FHG as she knows more about end times than I, but essentially Jesus is saying those in prison will be released on his second coming and yes, John will die in prison.

In this same way, we can view Luke 4.

Zechariah 9:11 is speaking about living water where there is none yet. This is a cross reference to Isaiah 42:5-7 of prophecy of the hope of the coming Messiah (living water) that will open the blind eyes to see and ears to hear as the prophecy of the coming Messiah is fulfilled in, Luke 4:17-21.

 

[for_his_glory]

How much does the Septuagent say his armor weighed?

125 lbs

 

[stovebolts]

I actually have many of the Egyptian writings, so I could verify if she gives a section.

Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament with Supplement: Pritchard, James B.: 9780691035031: Amazon.com: Books

Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament with Supplement [Pritchard, James B.] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament with Supplement

www.amazon.com

125 lbs

sorry, I meant in shekels. Is it 5,000 or 6,000 in the Septuagint?

 

[stovebolts]

Zechariah 9:11 is speaking about living water where there is none yet. This is a cross reference to Isaiah 42:5-7 of prophecy of the hope of the coming Messiah (living water) that will open the blind eyes to see and ears to hear as the prophecy of the coming Messiah is fulfilled in, Luke 4:17-21.

I'll put this together a bit clearer tomorrow. I think it falls right in your wheelhouse.