CHINA PEACE PLAN : BIBLE PROPHECY ??

[Highway54]

Why then did they crucify him? Why did the best learned among them reject him? If we are to
claim a people long dead KNEW something, we need to look at what they did. The examination of what they did doesn't bespeak they knew.

Yes. They were the most learned among the Jews. Did I miss something? They crucified him.

Why then did they crucify him? Why did the best learned among them reject him? If we are to
claim a people long dead KNEW something, we need to look at what they did. The examination of what they did doesn't bespeak they knew.

I gave you Jesus' words that explained that in post 12 maam. Perhaps you did not understand that parable was about him and why they wanted him gone. It is not hard to understand, they wanted what he had. Like you stated through their abuse of God's people they were living the high life, dressed well and living high on the hog. They didn't want the Kingdom to come, or their corruption revealed, thus stopped. They had put themselves in Jesus' place lording it over the people for their own benefit.

Yes. They were the most learned among the Jews. Did I miss something? They crucified him.

Yes maam, very learned among God's people. In fact even more than that, they were the supreme court of His people, they in essence were the governing body of them, all matters that could not be settled, got settled through them. You are quite correct, they killed the Messiah, and because of their disobedience, God rejected them as His people, and gave the Kingdom to a new nation. Mat 21:43; 1 Pet 2:9,10

 

[Highway54]

The evidence is that it was penned in 60 something AD as John was exiled under Nero same as Peter and Paul were executed followed by a 3.5 year terrible time for the church. John was in his 60s. A 20 year later timing doesn't work as John was feeble in his 90s and couldn’t walk or talk much.



I see only the 2nd coming with the Resurrection as unfulfilled.

Again, why do you think after Jesus comes no people will be left on earth? Where is that coming from? I’ve never heard that view. Sounds aweful.

Again, why do you think after Jesus comes no people will be left on earth?

What did I post that led you to understand I thought that Dot?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

What did I post that led you to understand I thought that Dot?

I think I mixed you up with ed. That’s his position. My mistake.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I gave you Jesus' words that explained that in post 12 maam.

I wrote post 12, sir.

Perhaps you did not understand that parable was about him and why they wanted him gone. It is not hard to understand, they wanted what he had.

But no where do any of the scriptures say they who crucified him thought they’d get what he had. When he claimed to be the Messiah, they didn’t believe him and cried blasphemy. They cried that he “wasn't their King, only Caesar.” “He came to his own and his own received hum not.”
That’s unbelief. How do you say that they believed?

Like you stated through their abuse of God's people they were living the high life, dressed well and living high on the hog. They didn't want the Kingdom to come, or their corruption revealed, thus stopped. They had put themselves in Jesus' place lording it over the people for their own benefit.

Well, I don’t see Jesus lording over but serving. They didn’t say they don’t want the kingdom to come. Or do you have any scripture for that?

Yes maam, very learned among God's people. In fact even more than that, they were the supreme court of His people, they in essence were the governing body of them, all matters that could not be settled, got settled through them. You are quite correct, they killed the Messiah, and because of their disobedience, God rejected them as His people, and gave the Kingdom to a new nation. Mat 21:43; 1 Pet 2:9,10

Very true and I agree. Its rare to find someone who sees that. Quite refreshing!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You may be unfamiliar with this prophecy maam:
(Daniel 9:24, 25) . . .“There are 70 weeks that have been determined for your people and your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, to finish off sin, to make atonement for error, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. 25 You should know and understand that from the issuing of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Mes·siʹah the Leader, there will be 7 weeks, also 62 weeks.. . .

My understanding is that this time period was finished when Jesus entered Jerusalem. That atonement was completed by him. His death brought in righteousness, etc. That is over. The details if the timing I would have to look up again, but I recall it was perfectly in time. Besides Jerusalem was rebuilt (2nd time) long ago….more than 70 weeks.

You are very well correct that God sent angels to reveal the birth of the Messiah to some of the shepherds in the fields. He did not produce a star however. This may be a new thought to you, but consider what happened with the star, so who logically produced the star?

Only God creates and the wise men followed it to find and fund the messiah. What are you thinking?

 

[Highway54]

I think I mixed you up with ed. That’s his position. My mistake.

No problem Dot, happens to me all the time! Gives me a measure of relief to see that it happens to others as well. :yes

 

[Highway54]

I wrote post 12, sir.

But no where do any of the scriptures say they who crucified him thought they’d get what he had. When he claimed to be the Messiah, they didn’t believe him and cried blasphemy. They cried that he “wasn't their King, only Caesar.” “He came to his own and his own received hum not.”
That’s unbelief. How do you say that they believed?

Well, I don’t see Jesus lording over but serving. They didn’t say they don’t want the kingdom to come. Or do you have any scripture for that?

Very true and I agree. Its rare to find someone who sees that. Quite refreshing!

I wrote post 12, sir.

Giggle! If I haven't said to you in the past that I am a moron, I am saying it now maam. You b quite correct!!

But no where do any of the scriptures say they who crucified him thought they’d get what he had. When he claimed to be the Messiah, they didn’t believe him and cried blasphemy. They cried that he “wasn't their King, only Caesar.” “He came to his own and his own received hum not.”
That’s unbelief. How do you say that they believed?

I just gave you what Jesus said, do you have an alternate understanding of what Jesus meant?
They did have it for a while more, but of course not much longer. The wicked who choose to stand in opposition of God who fare well, will find it only temporary.

Well, I don’t see Jesus lording over but serving. They didn’t say they don’t want the kingdom to come. Or do you have any scripture for that?

The abused wanted the Kingdom to come, even trying to make Jesus King at that time. Again like before, only this time I know you are speaking to me, what gives you the idea that I think Jesus was lording it over others maam?

 

[Highway54]

My understanding is that this time period was finished when Jesus entered Jerusalem. That atonement was completed by him. His death brought in righteousness, etc. That is over. The details if the timing I would have to look up again, but I recall it was perfectly in time. Besides Jerusalem was rebuilt (2nd time) long ago….more than 70 weeks.

Only God creates and the wise men followed it to find and fund the messiah. What are you thinking?

My understanding is that this time period was finished when Jesus entered Jerusalem. That atonement was completed by him.

The start of the 69 weeks was when Jesus became the Messiah Dot, which means anointed. Jesus was anointed at his baptism at age 30. As the verse stated he was cut off at the half of the week, Jesus was executed Nisan 14, 33 CE. But God kept the covenant in force till the end of the week, or until 36 CE.

Only God creates and the wise men followed it to find and fund the messiah. What are you thinking?

AS you said God sent angels to the shepherds. The Magicians were not God's people, and of course violated His scripture by their very work. The star was at no time seen by God's people, only recorded as seen by those Magi. The star did not lead the Magi to the Christ, rather it led them to Herod, who wanted to kill Jesus, then it led them to Jesus after some time. They were to report back to Herod, but God sent them another way maam. Men have glorified that star, but God didn't create it to inform His people the Messiah had arrived.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Giggle! If I haven't said to you in the past that I am a moron, I am saying it now maam. You b quite correct!!

I totally understand and feel the same way.

I just gave you what Jesus said, do you have an alternate understanding of what Jesus meant?

Good question. I am actively thinking about your question so this is subject to change. I suspect parables have a point or two to communicate. Not everything in a parable applies. The women who found a lost coin and threw a party only shows the joy Heaven has over a convert. Doesn’t mean women who find lost coins spend $$$ to celebrate.

The hired hands were jealous of the son and the pharisees were jealous of Jesus. That matches, but no one gets another man’s anointed by God’s ministry through murder of the anointed one. The parable describes God sending prophets whom the Jews murdered, one after another. God sent His son whom they also murdered AND the Father sent his judgement and wiped them out in 70AD.

They did have it for a while more, but of course not much longer. The wicked who choose to stand in opposition of God who fare well, will find it only temporary.

I agree on the fate of the wicked and that is very important. As to the Sanhedrin, didn’t raise the dead nor heal the sick, a vital part of Jesus’ ministry.

The abused wanted the Kingdom to come, even trying to make Jesus King at that time. Again like before, only this time I know you are speaking to me, what gives you the idea that I think Jesus was lording it over others

Because of what you said here, Sir:

They had put themselves in Jesus' place lording it over the people for their own benefit.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The start of the 69 weeks was when Jesus became the Messiah Dot, which means anointed. Jesus was anointed at his baptism at age 30. As the verse stated he was cut off at the half of the week, Jesus was executed Nisan 14, 33 CE. But God kept the covenant in force till the end of the week, or until 36 CE.

Well, the start of the 70 weeks is;

“25Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks“

so the starting point is not his baptism but the order to rebuild Jerusalem. Also, he was the Messiah from conception, not baptism.

AS you said God sent angels to the shepherds. The Magicians were not God's people, and of course violated His scripture by their very work.

They weren’t magicians but wise men. They performed no magic. They worshipped the Christ. They were his.

The star was at no time seen by God's people, only recorded as seen by those Magi. The star did not lead the Magi to the Christ, rather it led them to Herod, who wanted to kill Jesus, then it led them to Jesus after some time. They were to report back to Herod, but God sent them another way maam. Men have glorified that star, but God didn't create it to inform His people the Messiah had arrived.

How do you know no one else saw the star? When were there ever stars no one else saw? And the star, not Herod led them to Jesus. They didn’t know Herod was jealous, how could they. And, they heard from God Himself not to go home the same way. How many christians today hear God clearly enough to avoid trouble on the road? They belonged to him. I see God as creating the star or moving it there which is less awesome than an army of singing angels.

But you do present views I’ve not heard before. Pretty interesting!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Highway54, you know, my friend, I’ve thought about your statement regarding the wicked. I’m kind of old (ripe, like a good wine) and I’ve seen more and more the result of choices made in younger years that were wrong in God’s eyes that brought nothing close to the happiness they thought it would bring. Often the person is deeply unhappy.

 

[Highway54]

I totally understand and feel the same way.

Good question. I am actively thinking about your question so this is subject to change. I suspect parables have a point or two to communicate. Not everything in a parable applies. The women who found a lost coin and threw a party only shows the joy Heaven has over a convert. Doesn’t mean women who find lost coins spend $$$ to celebrate.

The hired hands were jealous of the son and the pharisees were jealous of Jesus. That matches, but no one gets another man’s anointed by God’s ministry through murder of the anointed one. The parable describes God sending prophets whom the Jews murdered, one after another. God sent His son whom they also murdered AND the Father sent his judgement and wiped them out in 70AD.

I agree on the fate of the wicked and that is very important. As to the Sanhedrin, didn’t raise the dead nor heal the sick, a vital part of Jesus’ ministry.

Because of what you said here, Sir:

I totally understand and feel the same way.

Good question. I am actively thinking about your question so this is subject to change. I suspect parables have a point or two to communicate. Not everything in a parable applies. The women who found a lost coin and threw a party only shows the joy Heaven has over a convert. Doesn’t mean women who find lost coins spend $$$ to celebrate.

The hired hands were jealous of the son and the pharisees were jealous of Jesus. That matches, but no one gets another man’s anointed by God’s ministry through murder of the anointed one. The parable describes God sending prophets whom the Jews murdered, one after another. God sent His son whom they also murdered AND the Father sent his judgement and wiped them out in 70AD.

I agree on the fate of the wicked and that is very important. As to the Sanhedrin, didn’t raise the dead nor heal the sick, a vital part of Jesus’ ministry.

Because of what you said here, Sir:

The hired hands were jealous of the son and the pharisees were jealous of Jesus. That matches, but no one gets another man’s anointed by God’s ministry through murder of the anointed one. The parable describes God sending prophets whom the Jews murdered, one after another. God sent His son whom they also murdered AND the Father sent his judgement and wiped them out in 70AD.

You have a grasp on it maam, now just recognize who it is about. I went back through our conversations and am not sure I even gave you the parable. I am sorry if that is the case. I am referring to the parable of the Vineyard. Mat 21:33-41 Who is the owner of the vineyard? God who did He send, like you said prophets. To whom, to His people. They (the religious leaders of God's people) rejected and killed some of them. The son? Jesus, whom they killed. Why? Mt 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

I agree on the fate of the wicked and that is very important. As to the Sanhedrin, didn’t raise the dead nor heal the sick, a vital part of Jesus’ ministry.

Nor did most of God's pre-Christian people. Nor was that passed on after the death of the Apostles.

Because of what you said here, Sir:

I said They had put themselves in Jesus' place lording it over the people for their own benefit. Who are they Maam, not Jesus, rather the leaders over God's people, whom He later rejected.

 

[Highway54]

Highway54, you know, my friend, I’ve thought about your statement regarding the wicked. I’m kind of old (ripe, like a good wine) and I’ve seen more and more the result of choices made in younger years that were wrong in God’s eyes that brought nothing close to the happiness they thought it would bring. Often the person is deeply unhappy.

Yes maam, sums it up for me also, I am 69. I left the faith for ten years, but did not like myself how much happier I am and thankful that God drew me to be among His flock.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You have a grasp on it maam, now just recognize who it is about. I went back through our conversations and am not sure I even gave you the parable. I am sorry if that is the case. I am referring to the parable of the Vineyard. Mat 21:33-41 Who is the owner of the vineyard? God who did He send, like you said prophets. To whom, to His people. They (the religious leaders of God's people) rejected and killed some of them. The son? Jesus, whom they killed. Why? Mt 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

My very dear H54, you need not feel bad for not giving the reference. I am extremely familiar with the whole of Scripture and can discuss it without any references as I know it. So do not feel like you need to cut and paste. You can talk about any verse and pretty much I will know it is in scripture and can look up the details if I think I need to correct your presentation or my memory of it. No worries and actually I do not like "Gish" so often done here where tons of cut and paste scripture are dumped on the reader with few if any of them pertinent to the subject being discussed.

Now, God is the owner of the vineyard. He sent the prophets to the Jews. They rejected and killed likely all of them they could get their hands on. (Elijah got away.) Now all of that matches. But they did not say that if they killed Jesus they could "get the farm" which his rather silly as the owner still owns it even if the son is killed and can sell if before he dies. So that is where the parable does not match real life and many do not match real life as that is not the point.

When Jesus told the parable of the lost sheep, it begs the question as to why the shepherd left the 99 to the wolves and went after one. That does not match real life. But the point was the joy over finding the lost, not the neglecting of the many. So you cannot take a parable teaching a single or few matters and apply everything in it. No pharisee thought they would have Jesus' ministry by murdering him. It says why they did and that was not one of the reasons.

Nor did most of God's pre-Christian people. Nor was that passed on after the death of the Apostles.

There were miracles of the same kind before Christ among the Jewish people when the prophets were there. Raising the dead, healing the sick, providing food, etc. And this was also after the death of the Apostles and is still true to this day. But it is more rare in the west and more common in the underdeveloped world. I have some experience there although not raising the dead. I have prayed for the sick and they were healed to include a sister who could not walk who got up and ran around.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes maam, sums it up for me also, I am 69. I left the faith for ten years, but did not like myself how much happier I am and thankful that God drew me to be among His flock.

Makes me very happy to read this. I am thankful that you came back. (You have your small and necessary but insufficient part by nature and God has his larger, necessary but insufficient part by choice.)

 

[Highway54]

My very dear H54, you need not feel bad for not giving the reference. I am extremely familiar with the whole of Scripture and can discuss it without any references as I know it. So do not feel like you need to cut and paste. You can talk about any verse and pretty much I will know it is in scripture and can look up the details if I think I need to correct your presentation or my memory of it. No worries and actually I do not like "Gish" so often done here where tons of cut and paste scripture are dumped on the reader with few if any of them pertinent to the subject being discussed.

Now, God is the owner of the vineyard. He sent the prophets to the Jews. They rejected and killed likely all of them they could get their hands on. (Elijah got away.) Now all of that matches. But they did not say that if they killed Jesus they could "get the farm" which his rather silly as the owner still owns it even if the son is killed and can sell if before he dies. So that is where the parable does not match real life and many do not match real life as that is not the point.

When Jesus told the parable of the lost sheep, it begs the question as to why the shepherd left the 99 to the wolves and went after one. That does not match real life. But the point was the joy over finding the lost, not the neglecting of the many. So you cannot take a parable teaching a single or few matters and apply everything in it. No pharisee thought they would have Jesus' ministry by murdering him. It says why they did and that was not one of the reasons.

There were miracles of the same kind before Christ among the Jewish people when the prophets were there. Raising the dead, healing the sick, providing food, etc. And this was also after the death of the Apostles and is still true to this day. But it is more rare in the west and more common in the underdeveloped world. I have some experience there although not raising the dead. I have prayed for the sick and they were healed to include a sister who could not walk who got up and ran around.

But they did not say that if they killed Jesus they could "get the farm"

(Matthew 21:37, 38) . . .Lastly he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 On seeing the son, the cultivators said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and get his inheritance!. . .

There were miracles of the same kind before Christ among the Jewish people when the prophets were there. Raising the dead, healing the sick, providing food, etc. And this was also after the death of the Apostles and is still true to this day

That is why I said most maam. There were indeed miracles, though rare in God's pre-Christian people. People cannot heal the sick, raise the dead today through faith, that ended with the apostles death. You will likely say still that it can be done, but remember they cured all thus showing they did so by God, those who are unable to cure all today, are shown to be false christs maam. Fruits identify. That which is perfect/complete has came, therefore the gifts ceased. 1 Cor 13:8-10

 

[Highway54]

Makes me very happy to read this. I am thankful that you came back. (You have your small and necessary but insufficient part by nature and God has his larger, necessary but insufficient part by choice.)

Thanks Dot, I appreciate your kind words maam.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

(Matthew 21:37, 38) . . .Lastly he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 On seeing the son, the cultivators said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and get his inheritance!. . .

No one today gets the land they are hired hands on by murdering the heir. No one. The owner can give it to relatives who are next in line in any case. The employees do not inherit even if they murder the entire family of the owners. There are always relatives. Think of the book of Ruth. There are kin and next of kin…..always.

That is why I said most maam. There were indeed miracles, though rare in God's pre-Christian people. People cannot heal the sick, raise the dead today through faith, that ended with the apostles death.

No it didn’t. People never heal the sick, but God’s power can do so and continues to do so. I’ve prayed for the sick to be healed and it happened. You are mistaken.

You will likely say still that it can be done, but remember they cured all thus showing they did so by God, those who are unable to cure all today, are shown to be false christs maam.

Jesus couldn’t cure all at times. Do you need that reference, sir?

Fruits identify. That which is perfect/complete has came, therefore the gifts ceased. 1 Cor 13:8-10

Well, I told you I prayed for a lame woman and she walked. I’ve prayed for the sick and they were healed. I’ve rebuked the enemy over the suicidal and they were free. But I was years in the 3rd world. They don’t know it ceased.

 

[Highway54]

No one today gets the land they are hired hands on by murdering the heir. No one. The owner can give it to relatives who are next in line in any case. The employees do not inherit even if they murder the entire family of the owners. There are always relatives. Think of the book of Ruth. There are kin and next of kin…..always.

No it didn’t. People never heal the sick, but God’s power can do so and continues to do so. I’ve prayed for the sick to be healed and it happened. You are mistaken.

Jesus couldn’t cure all at times. Do you need that reference, sir?

Well, I told you I prayed for a lame woman and she walked. I’ve prayed for the sick and they were healed. I’ve rebuked the enemy over the suicidal and they were free. But I was years in the 3rd world. They don’t know it ceased.

esus couldn’t cure all at times. Do you need that reference, sir?

Yes maam, I would appreciate that.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes maam, I would appreciate that.

And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. Mark 6:5

Just a few were healed, not all and nothing else.