If the lost natural man just simply could not believe the Gospel then nobody would be saved.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Christ applies redemption as well!
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
With man its impossible !
So who/what gets saved? Sheep?
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
This thread is about just that !
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
It is Finished !
All for whom Christ died, He has by His Death alone for them, perfectly satisfied God's Law and Justice for them, and this Truth remains steadfast regardless if they for whom He died, believe it not, for there not knowing it, not believing it, can't undo what Christ hath done for God and them. The Unbelief of the Elect sinner for whom Christ died cannot overturn the satisfaction Christ's Death provided to God's Law and Justice, its been accomplished; For either Christ's Death has propitiated the Father once and for all, for all their sins or it has not. If it has [and it has] it would be contrary to the Justice of God to ever punish, charge any of those Christ died for with sin ! So Paul in understanding this Writes Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Who is Christ making Intercession for ? Quite simple, those He died for !
All for whom Christ died, He has by His Death alone for them, perfectly satisfied God's Law and Justice for them, and this Truth remains steadfast regardless if they for whom He died, believe it not, for there not knowing it, not believing it, can't undo what Christ hath done for God and them. The Unbelief of the Elect sinner for whom Christ died cannot overturn the satisfaction Christ's Death provided to God's Law and Justice, its been accomplished; For either Christ's Death has propitiated the Father once and for all, for all their sins or it has not. If it has [and it has] it would be contrary to the Justice of God to ever punish, charge any of those Christ died for with sin ! So Paul in understanding this Writes Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Who is Christ making Intercession for ? Quite simple, those He died for !
Then since He died for everyone He intercedes for everyone.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Jn 17:9
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
You need to keep reading...
John 17:20-23, “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
It is finished continued !
If God could punish those Christ died for, after punishing them once already in Christ, God would be Unjust to His Son Christ, and renege on The Covenant engagements ! God Justly punished Christ for all their sins. God in His Injustice would be punishing those Christ died for Twice, once in their Surety Substitute and now a Second Time in them. So all who Teach that the satisfaction the Death of Christ made for sinners that He died for, unto God's Law and Justice, on their behalf, and yet you teach many of the same shall perish in their sins [That Christ died for 1 Cor 15:3], you are openly before the world charging God with cold hearted injustice, making Him out to be a Unjust God. You are teaching that God has and will act contrary to His own Justice, for there is simply no way around it. A persons act of belief has absolutely nothing to do with what on Christ's Sacrifice can and has accomplished before the law and Justice of God, on their behalf [Which is the Eternal Forgiveness of their sins] or Redemption Heb 9:12
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. The Eternal Redemption obtained was not for Him Personally, but for those He died for !
Now if He punishes any of the Us of Heb 9:12 for any one sin, to include unbelief, God has set aside the Satisfaction of His Son on their Behalf and becomes Unjust !
If God could punish those Christ died for, after punishing them once already in Christ, God would be Unjust to His Son Christ, and renege on The Covenant engagements ! God Justly punished Christ for all their sins. God in His Injustice would be punishing those Christ died for Twice, once in their Surety Substitute and now a Second Time in them. So all who Teach that the satisfaction the Death of Christ made for sinners that He died for, unto God's Law and Justice, on their behalf, and yet you teach many of the same shall perish in their sins [That Christ died for 1 Cor 15:3], you are openly before the world charging God with cold hearted injustice, making Him out to be a Unjust God. You are teaching that God has and will act contrary to His own Justice, for there is simply no way around it. A persons act of belief has absolutely nothing to do with what on Christ's Sacrifice can and has accomplished before the law and Justice of God, on their behalf [Which is the Eternal Forgiveness of their sins] or Redemption Heb 9:12
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. The Eternal Redemption obtained was not for Him Personally, but for those He died for !
Now if He punishes any of the Us of Heb 9:12 for any one sin, to include unbelief, God has set aside the Satisfaction of His Son on their Behalf and becomes Unjust !
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Nothing changed, He still didnt pray for the whole world Jn 17:9
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Perfected forever Heb 10:14
14 For by one offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
When scripture states that by His One Offering [His Death or Blood] of Himself , those He died for are perfected forever, it means that they are Eternally Justified Perfectly before God's Law and Justice, based solely on Christ's sacrifice !
This is True because of Imputed Righteousness of Jesus Christ, His Righteousness is in behalf of all for whom He died ! His Righteousness laid to our Charge if He died for us is:
entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings
accurate, exact, or correct in every detail
As far as God's Law and Justice is concerned , those Christ died for are Isa 61:10
I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.
Ps 132:9
Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy.
Who are His Priests ? These Rev 1:5-6
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
He made us that by His Love and Blood ! We have a perfect Righteousness by Christ and so have been perfected forever before God !
14 For by one offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
When scripture states that by His One Offering [His Death or Blood] of Himself , those He died for are perfected forever, it means that they are Eternally Justified Perfectly before God's Law and Justice, based solely on Christ's sacrifice !
This is True because of Imputed Righteousness of Jesus Christ, His Righteousness is in behalf of all for whom He died ! His Righteousness laid to our Charge if He died for us is:
entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings
accurate, exact, or correct in every detail
As far as God's Law and Justice is concerned , those Christ died for are Isa 61:10
I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.
Ps 132:9
Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy.
Who are His Priests ? These Rev 1:5-6
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
He made us that by His Love and Blood ! We have a perfect Righteousness by Christ and so have been perfected forever before God !
I am not going to go back and forth with you about this. You're trying to build doctrine on one out-of-context verse. Read my "signature" below. I'm done.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Christ's One Offering Sanctified forever those He died for !
Heb 10:10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Yes, The writer is writing to Believers, however that [believing] is not how they became sanctified forever, which was solely by means of the Sacrifice or Offering of the Body of Jesus Christ, which means by His Death !
This is a Great Blessing of the Death of Christ, all for whom He died, once and for all, set them apart !
The word sanctified here is the greek word hagiazō and means:
to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow
2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God
a) consecrate things to God
b) dedicate people to God
3) to purify
a) to cleanse externally
b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin
c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul
Please understand that Christ's Death is also the cause of internal renewing of the soul or as Paul writes it Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Christ's Death alone is the Sole Cause of this renewing of the Holy Ghost, for that is why when He ascended on High upon completion of His Death Work, the Father gave Him the Holy Spirit to pour upon all them He died for and to ensure their experimental sanctification by the Spirit. Here is where He receives the Holy Ghost scripture says Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he [Christ] hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
This shed forth of the Holy Ghost is taught by Paul also Here Titus 3:5-6
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Thats why those jews on the day of Pentecost asked for spiritual instruction from hearing Peter's sermon Acts 2, their asking that question showed that they had been renewed by the Holy Ghost, which Christ just had shed forth !
Heb 10:10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Yes, The writer is writing to Believers, however that [believing] is not how they became sanctified forever, which was solely by means of the Sacrifice or Offering of the Body of Jesus Christ, which means by His Death !
This is a Great Blessing of the Death of Christ, all for whom He died, once and for all, set them apart !
The word sanctified here is the greek word hagiazō and means:
to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow
2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God
a) consecrate things to God
b) dedicate people to God
3) to purify
a) to cleanse externally
b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin
c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul
Please understand that Christ's Death is also the cause of internal renewing of the soul or as Paul writes it Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Christ's Death alone is the Sole Cause of this renewing of the Holy Ghost, for that is why when He ascended on High upon completion of His Death Work, the Father gave Him the Holy Spirit to pour upon all them He died for and to ensure their experimental sanctification by the Spirit. Here is where He receives the Holy Ghost scripture says Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he [Christ] hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
This shed forth of the Holy Ghost is taught by Paul also Here Titus 3:5-6
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Thats why those jews on the day of Pentecost asked for spiritual instruction from hearing Peter's sermon Acts 2, their asking that question showed that they had been renewed by the Holy Ghost, which Christ just had shed forth !
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:17
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2
Who in the world is exempted from Salvation?
Jews?
Gentiles?
Sinners?
Other?
JLB
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Christ's One Offering Sanctified forever those He died for !
Jesus says of those He died for Jn 17:19
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
This here Christ sanctifying Himself has to do with offering Himself in Death, and by this, He sanctifies those He died for, this is confirmation of Heb 10:10. Notice Jesus said that they may be sanctified in the Truth. So Part of Christ's effects of His Death, is that those whom He died for, should be sanctified through the Truth ! The Holy Spirit is given to Him for that Purpose, remember Acts 2:33, so each person Christ's died for, and prayed that they should be sanctified through the Truth, the Holy Spirit effects that 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Yes, the Holy Spirit performs this work, however its because of the merits of Christ's Death and how it sanctifies those He died for !
Jesus says of those He died for Jn 17:19
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
This here Christ sanctifying Himself has to do with offering Himself in Death, and by this, He sanctifies those He died for, this is confirmation of Heb 10:10. Notice Jesus said that they may be sanctified in the Truth. So Part of Christ's effects of His Death, is that those whom He died for, should be sanctified through the Truth ! The Holy Spirit is given to Him for that Purpose, remember Acts 2:33, so each person Christ's died for, and prayed that they should be sanctified through the Truth, the Holy Spirit effects that 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Yes, the Holy Spirit performs this work, however its because of the merits of Christ's Death and how it sanctifies those He died for !
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:17
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2
Christ died for the world.
JLB
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Christ's One Offering Sanctified forever those He died for !
So because Christ's Death alone has once and for all sanctified or set apart for God's Purpose all those he died for, as an evidence of that Truth, the Spirit of God gives New Life unto all of them unto Gospel Obedience or Belief of the Truth, or its called Sanctification of the Spirit unto belief of the Truth. This also answers the Redeemers prayer for all whom He died Jn 17:17-20
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
1 Pet 1:2
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
The prep eis unto can mean into, so it could read:
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, into obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Now this sanctifying work of the Spirit unto Gospel obedience, is the FRUIT of Christ's Death, His One offering of Heb 10:10 ! All Persons Christ died for are automatically Sanctified [once and for all] by the Divine Purpose, even before actual childbirth as sinners, even as Jeremiah was Jer 1:5
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Yet, this did not mean that Jeremiah would not still be born a sinner, a child of wrath by nature as others, and not needing to be born again, but all that would occur by the Divine Purpose in due time so that he could fulfill his call as a prophet. However in God's Purpose, Jeremiah was always sanctified and set apart for God's Holy Purpose, his being born a sinner could not thwart that Purpose, neither for any other person Christ died for and set them apart for God's Holy Purpose in the Body of Christ. It is simply impossible for anyone Christ died for to not in time be sanctified by the Spirits Work unto obedience so they can perform the works God hath already ordained before that they should walk in Eph 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
So because Christ's Death alone has once and for all sanctified or set apart for God's Purpose all those he died for, as an evidence of that Truth, the Spirit of God gives New Life unto all of them unto Gospel Obedience or Belief of the Truth, or its called Sanctification of the Spirit unto belief of the Truth. This also answers the Redeemers prayer for all whom He died Jn 17:17-20
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
1 Pet 1:2
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
The prep eis unto can mean into, so it could read:
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, into obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Now this sanctifying work of the Spirit unto Gospel obedience, is the FRUIT of Christ's Death, His One offering of Heb 10:10 ! All Persons Christ died for are automatically Sanctified [once and for all] by the Divine Purpose, even before actual childbirth as sinners, even as Jeremiah was Jer 1:5
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Yet, this did not mean that Jeremiah would not still be born a sinner, a child of wrath by nature as others, and not needing to be born again, but all that would occur by the Divine Purpose in due time so that he could fulfill his call as a prophet. However in God's Purpose, Jeremiah was always sanctified and set apart for God's Holy Purpose, his being born a sinner could not thwart that Purpose, neither for any other person Christ died for and set them apart for God's Holy Purpose in the Body of Christ. It is simply impossible for anyone Christ died for to not in time be sanctified by the Spirits Work unto obedience so they can perform the works God hath already ordained before that they should walk in Eph 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
The forgiveness of sins !
Acts 13:38
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
The word preached here is the greek word kataggellō and means:
to announce, declare, promulgate, make known
2) to proclaim publicly, publish
3) to denounce, report, betray
The word conveys the idea of making something known ! What is being made known or declared, or published to some is that they have by the grace of God, and through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, they have the forgiveness of all their sins ! Eph 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
This is not an offer of forgiveness of sins that is contingent upon any conditions of men, not faith, not repentance, not water baptism, but solely upon the Blood of Christ shed on their behalf, the blood of the Covenant Matt 26:28
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
The remission of sins is the same as the forgiveness of sins !
All those whom Christ died for, shed His Blood for have before the Justice of God, and His Holy Law, they have forgiveness of sins before they are even born into this world as sinners ! It has not been made known to them until they are born again from above and the Gospel of their Salvation is preached unto them !
Acts 13:38
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
The word preached here is the greek word kataggellō and means:
to announce, declare, promulgate, make known
2) to proclaim publicly, publish
3) to denounce, report, betray
The word conveys the idea of making something known ! What is being made known or declared, or published to some is that they have by the grace of God, and through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, they have the forgiveness of all their sins ! Eph 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
This is not an offer of forgiveness of sins that is contingent upon any conditions of men, not faith, not repentance, not water baptism, but solely upon the Blood of Christ shed on their behalf, the blood of the Covenant Matt 26:28
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
The remission of sins is the same as the forgiveness of sins !
All those whom Christ died for, shed His Blood for have before the Justice of God, and His Holy Law, they have forgiveness of sins before they are even born into this world as sinners ! It has not been made known to them until they are born again from above and the Gospel of their Salvation is preached unto them !
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
The forgiveness of sins !
There was Legal forgiveness of the sins of the elect before the world began because of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace, when Christ was established as the Surety of the Elect or of the Sheep, and therefore no sin of theirs could be legally imputed to their Charge, but unto the charge of their Surety, so the Elect were forgiven of all Trespasses, before they actually Trespassed in Adam! When they Trespassed in Adam, God could not legally charge them with sin. David understood this Transaction and wrote Ps 32:1-2
Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
There was Legal forgiveness of the sins of the elect before the world began because of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace, when Christ was established as the Surety of the Elect or of the Sheep, and therefore no sin of theirs could be legally imputed to their Charge, but unto the charge of their Surety, so the Elect were forgiven of all Trespasses, before they actually Trespassed in Adam! When they Trespassed in Adam, God could not legally charge them with sin. David understood this Transaction and wrote Ps 32:1-2
Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
I disagree. Remission is not the same as forgiveness. Forgiveness is certainly involved in the remission of sins but they are still not the same thing.
A believer can sin against God, and God may or may not forgive that sin. Classic example is Moses. (Num. 20:8-12) (Deut. 32:51) (Deut. 3:23-27) God did not forgive Moses sin of smiting the Rock and brought him under judgement and thus would not let him enter the promised land.
I believe I understand 'imputation'. Your use of it here, to me, has a bad ring to it. God can charge the believer with his sins before and after he becomes a believer. His being elect doesn't matter. That Christ has paid the penalty for sin doesn't matter. The believer can still be guilty of sin and be charged with it by God.
You can repent of your sins as a believer. God may allow that repentance or He may not. He may bring you under judgement for it. Repentance is a gift from God. It is not automatic.
The believer is still saved. Just as Moses was still saved. But he suffered the judgement for his sin.
And David declared his sin was ever before him. (Ps. 51:3)
Quantrill