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T. E. Smith

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You havent paid attention to what I have explained in the post. Why ask me to explain when you pay no attention to what I have explained.
Your post is a half-incoherent jumble of Bible passages haphazardly thrown together. Sorry, but I can't read that.
 

JLB

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You said yes. So articulate the points to me and how I made them with scripture please.

Your point in all your posts are the same.

You have redefined world to mean the elect.

You believe world in John 3:16 refers to "His sheep".

For God so loved the world Hissheep that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him is already His sheep should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


JLB
 

brightfame52

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Ye are complete in Him !

Col 2:10

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Now I know this is addressed to believers, however the Truth is that believers are complete in Him before they believe, and because that is so, they are also Justified before God before they believe, prior to Faith in Christ, for Justification is part of being complete in Him.

Believers did not put themselves in Him [Christ], but the Father God did 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Before the foundation God chose believers in Christ, and that is were and when He first put them in Christ Eph 1:4, hence believers were in Him and complete before they believed. If one was not in Christ before they believed, then quite frankly He could not have died for that one, or died for their sins, because those whom we was crucified for, when He was crucified, they were crucified with Him, for instance Paul saith of himself Gal 2:20

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

The word crucified is the word συσταυρόω:

I crucify together with,I fix to the cross, crucify; fig: I destroy, mortify

he was fixed to the cross with Christ when Crucified. The word also is in the perfect indicative, indicating that something happened and completed definitely in the past, with results of it in the present.; and it is also written of all believers Rom 6:5-6

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Its the same word as in Gal 2:20 crucified with. This did not happen when one believed, it happened when Christ was actually crucified.

The reason why it can be written that Paul and other believers were crucified with Christ together, is because they were in Him, and it is in Him that they were Complete, even before they believed, and so Justified before they believed !
 

brightfame52

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Ye are complete in Him !2

If we were not crucified with/together with Christ [in the Mind and Purpose of God] in Union with Him when He was put to death for us, then we have no hope of ever walking in the newness of life, which is typified by His being raised from the dead for us Rom 6:4-5

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Vs 5 here is saying if we were planted together with Him as in His Death, being in union with Him when He died for our sins [1 Cor 15:3] then as a result of that, we shall also be in the Likeness of His Resurrection for us, by New Birth or Spiritual Resurrection or Quickening !

For New Birth is that which is the antitype of being in the Likeness of His Resurrection Vs 5.

Ones New Birth in time is but the spiritual evidence and proof that Christ died and rose again in our behalf, people who in this lie who are never born again by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead as Per 1 Peter 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


3 Praised (honored, blessed) be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah)! By His boundless mercy we have been born again to an ever-living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,AMP

Then they were not in Him or represented by Him [in the Mind and Purpose of God] when He died and rose again for His Sheep; Remember He rose from the dead as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Again, if we never in this Life are born again by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, then we were not in Him when He died and rose again, and so He simply did not die for us , its that simple !

And because those who are in Him are born again before they believed, they were complete in Him before they believed, which their believing evidences !19
 

brightfame52

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The Blessedness of Christ dying for our sins ?

What is the supreme Blessedness of Christ dying for our sins as Per 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

It is this, those He died for are the man here in Rom 4:8

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Ps 32:1-2

1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

The only reason why Rom 4:8 is true is because 1 Cor 15:3 is true. The sins, iniquities which are not imputed to us is because they were imputed to Christ, and hence they are not ours any more when that transaction was done, which was before He died for them. Simply put Rom 4:8 and its Blessedness of non imputation applies to all for whom Christ died ! There is no record of their sins before God ! Now what are Two consequences of Rom 4:8 ? #1. Their iniquities are forgiven Vs 7

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

They are send away. Remember how the High Priest on the day of Atonement would do this Lev 16:21-22

21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.

They are forever removed before God's Law and Justice Ps 103:12

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

#2 Righteousness has been imputed to them without their works Vs 6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

And this is even while they in themselves are being Ungodly Vs 5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Yes, the blessedness is that Righteousness has been imputed to them, and sins forgiven them, while they are being Ungodly.

That's the Blessedness of Christ dying for our sins if He indeed did die for our sins at all !
 

T. E. Smith

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The Blessedness of Christ dying for our sins ?

What is the supreme Blessedness of Christ dying for our sins as Per 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

It is this, those He died for are the man here in Rom 4:8

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Ps 32:1-2

1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

The only reason why Rom 4:8 is true is because 1 Cor 15:3 is true. The sins, iniquities which are not imputed to us is because they were imputed to Christ, and hence they are not ours any more when that transaction was done, which was before He died for them. Simply put Rom 4:8 and its Blessedness of non imputation applies to all for whom Christ died ! There is no record of their sins before God ! Now what are Two consequences of Rom 4:8 ? #1. Their iniquities are forgiven Vs 7

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

They are send away. Remember how the High Priest on the day of Atonement would do this Lev 16:21-22

21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.

They are forever removed before God's Law and Justice Ps 103:12

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

#2 Righteousness has been imputed to them without their works Vs 6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

And this is even while they in themselves are being Ungodly Vs 5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Yes, the blessedness is that Righteousness has been imputed to them, and sins forgiven them, while they are being Ungodly.

That's the Blessedness of Christ dying for our sins if He indeed did die for our sins at all !
The goat was for all Israel, not just the elect people in Israel.
 

brightfame52

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The Blessedness of Christ dying for our sins ? 2

All for whom Christ died are the man that is called blessed here in Rom 4:8

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

8 Blessed and happy and to be envied is the person of whose sin the Lord will take no account nor reckon it against him.

John Gill on this verse:

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. As he does not to those whom he justifies in Christ, and by his righteousness; for the sins of such he has imputed to his Son, as their surety; and he has bore them, took them away, having made full satisfaction for them; so that these persons will never be charged with them: they now appear before the throne without fault, and are blameless and irreproveable in the sight of God, and therefore must be eternally happy; for he will never think of their sins any more to their hurt; he will remember them no more; he "will never reckon them to them", but acquit them from them, justify and accept them; wherefore they must be secure from wrath and condemnation, enjoy much peace and comfort now, and be happy hereafter.
Now again, Rom 4:8 is foundational on 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Now this is true because the sins that are not imputed to those of Rom 4:8 as well as 2 Cor 5:19, those sins were by the Justice of God Imputed to Christ, He must die for them, not them, that was the suretyship arrangement before the world began. That means Christ became the principle debtor to God's Law and Justice for them !

Then again we looked at the effects of sin not being imputed to those in Rom 4:8 and 2 Cor 5:19, which #1 is forgiveness of sins Rom 4:7

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Barnes quotes calvin here on this vere saying:

Whose sins are covered - Are concealed; or hidden from the view. On which God will no more look, and which he will no more remember. "By these words," says Calvin (in loco), "we are taught that justification with Paul is nothing else but pardon of sin."
And I concur that Forgiveness of sins is Justification / Acquittal before God.

Its what Paul means by Justification here Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

That's the result of God not imputing sin Rom 4:8 !

And #2. Its Righteousness Imputed without works [doings,actions,obeying] Rom 4:6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

To better understand this concept , its just like how adam's sin was imputed to them without their act of actual disobedience, so likewise Christ's Righteousness is imputed to them without their actual act of obedience !

Now understand this Righteousness Imputed to us is the reciprocal exchange for sin Imputed to Christ. 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

He by imputation was made sin [an offering] and we by imputation was made Righteous !

That equates to Our Justification and His Condemnation, for Our sins 1 Cor 15:3; which goes along with 2 Cor 5:21. This Truth is also reflected here Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon[by imputation] all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon[by Imputation] all men unto justification of life.

This is part of the Blessedness of Christ dying for our sins, if He did die for them, if we were one of His Sheep ! 19
 

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You lost me friend.
In an earlier post, you quoted this;
21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.
How is it relevant?
 

brightfame52

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In an earlier post, you quoted this;

How is it relevant?
Its about what was pictured, it was only the sins of Israel that were sent away, intimating a limited atonement for a certain people. Read Lev 16 and you may be granted more understanding from God, its about the Day of Atonement Sacrifice, a picture, type of the Sacrifice of Christ for His Church !
 

brightfame52

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He was made unto us Sanctification !

1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

For those Christ died for, He was made unto us of God The Father Sanctification. Did you know that all for whom Christ died, through His Death alone, That God made Him unto us [if He died for us] Sanctification. The word here is hagiasmos:

I.
consecration, purification

II.
the effect of consecration
A.
sanctification of heart and life
The process of making or becoming holy, set apart, sanctification, holiness, consecration.

Its translated holiness here :Rom 6:19, Rom 6:22, Heb 12:14

Now this Sanctification/ holiness is Real before God, even when its not unto us, and its permanent, and its solely based upon what God did for us through Christ; and by His Offering [His Death], every one He died for is perfectly Sanctified Heb 10:10-14


10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Now the word sanctified in Vs 10 is in the perfect tense, a action completed in the past with results coming into the present. His death guarantees those He died for inward sanctification of Life as well. In fact the word sanctification here in Vs 10 is slightly different from the one in 1 Cor 1:30 but both convey the Truth of inward sanctification:

to purify internally by reformation of soul:

That's why all for whom Christ died experience the Sanctification of the Spirit as Per 2 Thess 2:13, its a blessing that compliments the Death of Christ and its sanctifying those He died for !

Nothing can be added, nothing can be taken away, its the work of God. All sinners for whom Christ died, no matter who they are, gentile, jew, white, black, male or female, no matter what time of world history they lived in, they are born into this world ungodly, and at the same time perfectly Sanctified by the Body of Christ, which is a way of saying His Death ! 12
 

brightfame52

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Salvation Promised by Jesus !

Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Many times it has been witnessed that Christ's by His Death has saved His People from the penalty of their sins, for them there is no more penalty of sin regarding them to pay, no death due to them at all, to include the second death. For death is the wages of Sin, Rpm 6:23, and since Christ has died for their sins, Life to them is due. However that is not all His Saving His People entails, deliverance from death, the penalty of sin, for His Saving is complete, to the uttermost[Heb 7:25], and so He saves His People from a lost state, or out of a lost state. He saves, them from their fallen nature, of which they partake of by nature; Simply put, Christ cannot be the Captain of Our Salvation, Our Saviour , if in fact He does not save us, not only from sin's penalty, but also from our fallen nature wherein lies the power of sin !

He saves His People from their native corrupt and fallen nature, by giving them in New Birth , a Nature whereby they can escape as stated here 2 Pet 1:3-4

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.19
 
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brightfame52

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Salvation Promised by Jesus ! 2

Christ is promised to save His People from their sins. Matt 1:21

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from G575 their sins.

This word from is the greek preposition apo:

I.of separation

A.of local separation, after verbs of motion from a place i.e. of departing, of fleeing, ...

B.of separation of a part from the whole

i.where of a whole some part is taken

C.of any kind of separation of one thing from another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed

What this is promising is that Jesus will save His People from their sin nature wherein lies the power of sin, the flesh. Paul writes Rom 7:14,21

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

This is also true in regards to the Elect's First parents, Adam and Eve, but they did not know their flesh was evil until tempted by the serpent.

But Jesus is promised to save His People from their sins, their flesh.

Now this is ensured, being saved from our fallen nature by the fact that, He as our Surety Saviour representative was raised from the dead, so likewise in the purpose of God, were all those He represented, and as His Resurrection was unto that He Liveth unto God Rom 6:4-10

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth[through resurrection], he liveth unto God.

Even so therefore, all those whom He represented as Surety and they were [in God's purpose] raised up together with Him Eph 2:6

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

He, That is Christ and those He represented, His Body the Church are One Heb 2:11

11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

This is what is meant as well, when Christ was begotten from the dead as per Acts 13:33

33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

So likewise were all those He federally represented, they were also together with Him [in the purpose of God] begotten again from the dead, so Peter writes of this very truth here 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This proves that they [the elect] were in Union with Christ as He was their Head, when He was begotten again from the dead Acts 13:33.

Its the same greek word " begotten" in Acts 13:33 and 1 Pet 1:3 the word is γεννάω :

I.of men who fathered children

A.to be born

B.to be begotten

This is a Major Truth of the Resurrection that is sorely neglected in the Gospel these days. 1 Cor 15:3-4

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Again His Resurrection from the dead was theirs also Heb 2:11

11 For both he[Christ] that sanctifieth and they[His Church] who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

This means that they are all of One Resurrection from the dead !
 

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Hey brightfame52 it would help a lot if you were to put verses in quotes, like so:
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
 

brightfame52

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Salvation Promised by Jesus ! 3

That is why it is stated that they were begotten again through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Ones New Birth in time, confirms their Union with Christ,being together with Him when He was begotten here Acts 13:33

33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

And as evidence, all for whom Christ died and rose in behalf of, shall be begotten again unto Newness of Life. Peter also calls it here 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

By the Word of God's Resurrection from the Dead, Yes Jesus Christ in 1 Pet 1:3 is the same as the Word of God here in Vs 23 Remember Jn 1:1,14 well that one in Vs 14 is who died and rose again from the dead !

Now all for whom He died and rose receive as a Gift a New Life to serve God with. Remember Rom 6:10b

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth,[by resurrection] he liveth unto God.

The Life He now lives He lives unto God, and corresondinly, when one is begotten again by the Resurrection of Christ from the dead, the words begotten again means :

to have one's mind changed[repentance] so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

That's also were repentance , a change of Mind , comes from. That's why Peter writes that the Risen Christ gives Repentance Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Peter is speaking of what He wrote in 1 Pet 1:3 ! So that's how those Jesus Christ died for are by Him given a New Life to serve God with, or to now Live unto God, now see the correlation that has with Rom 6:10b

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

That's why the Bible Teaches that the Death of Christ saves those He died for from their sins. Its impossible for Christ to have died for anyone and it not effect their Resurrection from the Spiritually dead by New Birth !.

By it, His Resurrection from the dead, it causes those He died for to be born again as Per the ESV Translation 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Folks this is the Truth of the Gospel, if Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures and was raised again the third day according to the scriptures 1 Cor 15:3-4, a scripture like this one would apply Isa 26:19

19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

This is talking about Christ's Body, remember this Jn 2:19-21

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Also Hos 6:2

2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

So scripture states clearly that those whom Christ for shall be Born Again, If we do not sometime in our lifetime, be begotten again by the Resurrection of Christ from the dead, then He did not die and raise again for our Justification, we had no interest in His Death, Nor Resurrection at all !!! 19
 

brightfame52

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It makes men alive to God !

Did you know that Life comes out of Death ? Christ's Death makes them He died for alive unto God. Jesus said here Jn 12:24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

24 I tell you for certain that a grain of wheat that falls on the ground will never be more than one grain unless it dies. But if it dies, it will produce lots of wheat.

Remember the parable of the wheat and tares Matt 13, remember who sowed the Wheat or the Good Grain Matt 13:37-38

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed[Wheat] is the Son of man;

38 The field is the world; the good seed[Wheat] are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

The Wheat is produced by the Corn of Wheat that died in Jn 12:24

24 Verily, verily I say unto you, unless a grain of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone; but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

The fruit are the many lives of the wheat or the Children of the Kingdom, that shall be harvested. Matt 13:30

Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Again, Christ's Death, causes them He died for to be made alive unto God, the Truth behind what Paul teaches here Rom 6:6-11

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

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