Christ said the Temple would remain desolate until His Second Coming

[Hidden In Him]

My premise Scripture is God-breathed. That invalidates your point.

Even "if" (I think Christ said the words when speaking to His audience) God added them to their written form later, Its in God's Word and for present day readers.

I don't have loops, I have God breathed Scripture and His providential decree----whatever is in my Bible He wanted there.

I find your position impossible. Christ is God the Son, incarnate when He spoke these words. Just as He knew Peter would deny Him thrice, so He knew generations would be reading His speech.

If not then He is not God.

I reject what many apply to scripture, as though its like any human writing. Its God's Word.

A practical illustration of this is Trinitarian teaching. Like early Christians I see this taught everywhere in the OT, starting in Genesis. The Doctrine of the Trinity did NOT develop "over the centuries" as a "private (human) interpretation" would.

20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. (2 Pet. 1:20-2:1 NKJ)

"Prophecy" includes " God forth telling truth" as well as predicting future events. "Let the reader understand" could be classified as prophetic but I apply Peter's words to ALL the Bible, OT and NT. God providentially gave us His Word in both.


The Bible isn't like uninspired literature, its the Word of God and sound interpreters predicate their hermeneutics on that fact.

As for your last comments, this is taking the Bible organically according to its own claims, in the most literal fashion. Understanding "Let the Reader understand" is Christ's "prayer" for us READERS (when these things will happen) to understand. That is neither "code" or "spiritualizing." Its a literal understanding of the words.

Alfred, this is kind of a junk post. There’s nothing of quality in it to respond to.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Christ's prediction of the Temple's destruction as one of the signs of the end, implies it remains desolate until the Jews say "blessed is He..."

38 "See! Your house is left to you desolate;
39 "for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say,`Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!'"
(Matt. 23:38-39 NKJ)

This doesn't rule out the Jews might build a temple in the end time, but no Christ rejecting building is "the Temple of God" once Christ was risen from the dead. God's Presence left the Holy of Holies in the temple when Christ died at Calvary:

50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split,
(Matt. 27:50-51 NKJ)

Of course. As for Paul not referring to the physical temple as the temple of God anymore, it’s because the veil was torn and the church had become the temple where the Spirit of God dwelt. That’s basic Pauline theology. But to take physical temple out of Christ’s discourse in Matthew 24 is to completely spiritualize the totality of prophecy, and it leaves the reader asking just how far you take that.

Some teach that Jesus is not literally returning because he has already come. Some teach that Christ never literally came in the flesh due to the same kinds of spiritualizations. So it becomes an increasingly slippery slope when you start down that road.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Of course. As for Paul not referring to the physical temple as the temple of God anymore, it’s because the veil was torn and the church had become the temple where the Spirit of God dwelt. That’s basic Pauline theology. But to take physical temple out of Christ’s discourse in Matthew 24 is to completely spiritualize the totality of prophecy, and it leaves the reader asking just how far you take that.

Some teach that Jesus is not literally returning because he has already come. Some teach that Christ never literally came in the flesh due to the same kinds of spiritualizations. So it becomes an increasingly slippery slope when you start down that road.

You assume "Holy Place" is the Temple, when the NT says its the Church. I reject the hermeneutic Christ didn't know the future, that He would never speak of "the church":

"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. (Matt. 16:18 NKJ)

Moreover, rather than "spiritualizing" the context I'm being consistent with it. Christ said the Temple would be destroyed, and spoke of the gospel being preached throughout the earth. All that rules out He was talking about the literal Temple as "the Holy Place."

Cult teaching about Christ has no connection to my discussion, whatsoever.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Alfred, this is kind of a junk post. There’s nothing of quality in it to respond to.

List the items that make it a "junk post." Otherwise you have ended discussion, not advanced it.

 

[Hidden In Him]

List the items that make it a "junk post." Otherwise you have ended discussion, not advanced it.

Bud, if I had wanted to respond to that one I would have by now.

You assume "Holy Place" is the Temple, when the NT says its the Church. I reject the hermeneutic Christ didn't know the future, that He would never speak of "the church":

"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. (Matt. 16:18 NKJ)

Moreover, rather than "spiritualizing" the context I'm being consistent with it. Christ said the Temple would be destroyed, and spoke of the gospel being preached throughout the earth. All that rules out He was talking about the literal Temple as "the Holy Place."

Cult teaching about Christ has no connection to my discussion, whatsoever.

Alfred, I am again telling you how His listeners would have understood His wording. This was not a parable shrouded in mystery and that’s almost what you are turning it into, and in the process throwing out His listeners as if it was utterly inconsequential whether they understood Him or not. I don’t think He operates that way.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Bud, if I had wanted to respond to that one I would have by now.


Alfred, I am again telling you how His listeners would have understood His wording. This was not a parable shrouded in mystery and that’s almost what you are turning it into, and in the process throwing out His listeners as if it was utterly inconsequential whether they understood Him or not. I don’t think He operates that way.

So you labeled my direct rebuttal of a hermeneutic that doesn't consider the context when interpreting symbolic language, or doesn't consider Christ's Deity and knowledge of Future events, "junk".

Some reject Christ's use of the word "church", claiming a Jew would never talk that way to Jews, yet we have Matthew's gospel showing Christ did. That point also "junk"?

As for how disciples understood Christ's words, confusing parables with His prediction about the Temple's destruction indicates inability to know.

And I repeat, I didn't "spiritualize" the context--- I'm being consistent with it.

Christ said the Temple would be destroyed, and said end time events will occur after the gospel is preached throughout the earth. That removes the literal Temple destroyed in 70 AD from possible locations of "the holy place" where the end time abomination of desolation would stand up.

Cult teaching about Christ has no connection to my discussion, whatsoever. Given how easily you dismissed my points as "junk," don't you think reference to irrelevant cultic belief rather than discussion of facts "a junk reply"?

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus has built the Temple God is well pleased with and will dwell with forever, Its a Spiritual Temple folks Zech 6:12

And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord:
Its His Church Matt 16:17-18
17 And Jesus[The Branch] answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Its made up of converted jews and gentiles Eph 2:11-2211 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

[Elijah7777]

The Lord could be near others outside the temple, yes

Do you mean the court of the Gentiles. My understanding is it would take 7 years to build the temple. That would be the 7 year tribulation period. Don't know if I believe in that or not. It was very popular 30 years ago. I just know the church age is ending and the kingdom age is beginning. There are lots of theories on how that is going to happen.

 

[Elijah7777]

Jew would never talk that way to Jews,

The word “Jew” carries complex emotional weight, especially in the context of Holocaust history and memory. While the term itself is not inherently offensive—it is a standard identifier for someone who practices Judaism or belongs to the Jewish people—the way it has been historically used, particularly in antisemitic propaganda and during the Nazi era, has made it painful for some Holocaust survivors.

 

[Hidden In Him]

So you labeled my direct rebuttal of a hermeneutic that doesn't consider the context when interpreting symbolic language, or doesn't consider Christ's Deity and knowledge of Future events, "junk".

Some reject Christ's use of the word "church", claiming a Jew would never talk that way to Jews, yet we have Matthew's gospel showing Christ did. That point also "junk"?

As for how disciples understood Christ's words, confusing parables with His prediction about the Temple's destruction indicates inability to know.

And I repeat, I didn't "spiritualize" the context--- I'm being consistent with it.

Christ said the Temple would be destroyed, and said end time events will occur after the gospel is preached throughout the earth. That removes the literal Temple destroyed in 70 AD from possible locations of "the holy place" where the end time abomination of desolation would stand up.

Cult teaching about Christ has no connection to my discussion, whatsoever. Given how easily you dismissed my points as "junk," don't you think reference to irrelevant cultic belief rather than discussion of facts "a junk reply"?

Here Alfred, I will post the passage and you tell me which parts you think are literal and which spiritual. For the record I think ALL of it is literal, consistently. If you think it is all spiritual then I suppose you are being consistent in your interpretation as well, but I will still disagree with you. But I believe (passages following):

- Temple = literal
- buildings of the temple = literal
- stones = literal

Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple
1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

- Mount of Olives = literal
- wars = literal
- famines, pestilences and earthquakes = all literal
- nations = literal
- tribulation/ persecutions/ murders = literal
- false prophets = literal

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” 4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

- Holy place = literal
- Judea/ mountains = literal
- field/ clothes/ housetops = literal
- Sabbaths literal
- False Christs/ false prophets = literal
- Signs and wonders = literal

The Great Tribulation
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. 23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

- Sun darkened = literal
- Moon not giving light = literal
- Angels = literal
- Sound of a trumpet = literal

The Coming of the Son of Man
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The above is a consistent exegesis. But answer for me how much you take literally and we will take things from there.
- H

 

[Elijah7777]

For the record I think ALL of it is literal, consistently.

All of the Bible is literal. We only teach the literal Bible in our sunday school program. When our students are old enough to go into the sanctuary then the pastor teaches the symbolism of these literal events. If Jesus uses a name that is a real person. If He does not use a name then they maybe fiction to teach a lesson. We work with this in our study of history. We do not always know as much as we would like to know. So we can work with what could have been. Neil Degrasse likes to hold science fiction accountable to real science.

 

[Elijah7777]

Sun darkened = literal
- Moon not giving light = literal

I think this is a reference to a volcano. I could go into the physics of how the smoke from an active volcano would filter out the light from the Sun and the Moon.

 

[JLB]

When Christ said the abomination of desolation would stand up in a holy place, The Holy Spirit cautions the reader to understand He is not talking about the literal temple. This happens AFTER the gospel is preached worldwide, long after the Jewish Temple was destroyed:

We are cautioned to understand… what was spoken about this by the prophet Daniel.

“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),
Matthew 24:15


Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.
Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, “My lord, what shall be the end of these things?”
And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.
“But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.” Daniel 12:7-13


Are you familiar with this time frame of … a time, times, and half a time; ?

This refers to three and a half years.

Do you know the significance of this time period?

 

[JLB]

Here Alfred, I will post the passage and you tell me which parts you think are literal and which spiritual. For the record I think ALL of it is literal, consistently. If you think it is all spiritual then I suppose you are being consistent in your interpretation as well, but I will still disagree with you. But I believe (passages following):

- Temple = literal
- buildings of the temple = literal
- stones = literal

Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple
1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

- Mount of Olives = literal
- wars = literal
- famines, pestilences and earthquakes = all literal
- nations = literal
- tribulation/ persecutions/ murders = literal
- false prophets = literal

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” 4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

- Holy place = literal
- Judea/ mountains = literal
- field/ clothes/ housetops = literal
- Sabbaths literal
- False Christs/ false prophets = literal
- Signs and wonders = literal

The Great Tribulation
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. 23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

- Sun darkened = literal
- Moon not giving light = literal
- Angels = literal
- Sound of a trumpet = literal

The Coming of the Son of Man
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The above is a consistent exegesis. But answer for me how much you take literally and we will take things from there.
- H

Amen.

It seems some have a desire to “spiritualize” the plain and literal words of Jesus Christ in order to explain away the truth He was teaching.

To this I have to ask; to what end?

What possible good can come from this?

I believe many today in the Church think if we explain away the difficult things that Jesus taught, then we won’t have to deal with them some how.


Peter warned us against such things.


Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. 2 Peter 3:14-16

• which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

 

[JLB]

Everyone waiting for a Temple to be rebuilt in Jerusalem wait in vain. Its not gonna happen.

36 "Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
38 "See! Your house is left to you desolate;
39 "for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say,`Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!'"
NKJ Matthew 24:1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" (Matt. 23:36-24:3 NKJ)

Can we discuss what Daniel said in Daniel 9:24-27?

Jesus referred us to understand what Daniel the prophet said about these things.



“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.” Daniel 9:24-27

 

[JLB]

The Word spoken through us should echo the character of the One who declares His Word.

Amen.

Here is His word to us about these things -

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thessalonians 2:8-12

• And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Jesus has built the Temple God is well pleased with and will dwell with forever, Its a Spiritual Temple folks Zech 6:12

And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord:
Its His Church Matt 16:17-18
17 And Jesus[The Branch] answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Its made up of converted jews and gentiles Eph 2:11-2211 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

The Church is the Temple of God in the New Covenant, Paul transferred the imagery of the priesthood and Daily Sacrifice to the church even while the literal Temple in Jerusalem was still standing. The Church is "the Temple of God" (1 Cor. 3:16-17; 6:19; 2 Cor. 6:16; 2 Thess. 2:4; Eph. 2:21). Its members Temple priests (1 Pet. 2:5). Christians offer up "the Daily Sacrifice" (1 Pet. 2:5; Rom. 12:1; Lk. 9:23; Heb. 13:15).

The Man of Sin appears first in the Temple of God, the Church. That is why a religious apostasy precedes his arrival, if the Church were faithful it would have rejected him. "Church" here is "Naos", the miracle worker claiming to be Jesus appears in it, an abomination that causes Christendom's desolation.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Here Alfred, I will post the passage and you tell me which parts you think are literal and which spiritual. For the record I think ALL of it is literal, consistently. If you think it is all spiritual then I suppose you are being consistent in your interpretation as well, but I will still disagree with you. But I believe (passages following):

- Temple = literal
- buildings of the temple = literal
- stones = literal

Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple
1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

- Mount of Olives = literal
- wars = literal
- famines, pestilences and earthquakes = all literal
- nations = literal
- tribulation/ persecutions/ murders = literal
- false prophets = literal

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” 4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

- Holy place = literal
- Judea/ mountains = literal
- field/ clothes/ housetops = literal
- Sabbaths literal
- False Christs/ false prophets = literal
- Signs and wonders = literal

The Great Tribulation
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. 23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

- Sun darkened = literal
- Moon not giving light = literal
- Angels = literal
- Sound of a trumpet = literal

The Coming of the Son of Man
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The above is a consistent exegesis. But answer for me how much you take literally and we will take things from there.
- H

Pedantic interpretation that extracts the context from the greater whole, the chronology Christ established. All these events do not happen before 70 AD.

Therefore, it cannot be the same Temple the abomination of desolation appears in. Not a stone was left upon a stone.

So we must think of another "literal" temple, something the NT calls the "Temple of God", to be the place where Paul says the abomination will appear.

3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. (2 Thess. 2:3-4 NKJ)

When we study Paul's use the phrase "Temple of God," HE ALWAYS REFERS LITERALLY TO THE CHURCH:

The Church is the Temple of God in the New Covenant, Paul transferred the imagery of the priesthood and Daily Sacrifice to the church even while the literal Temple in Jerusalem was still standing. The Church is "the Temple of God" (1 Cor. 3:16-17; 6:19; 2 Cor. 6:16; 2 Thess. 2:4; Eph. 2:21). Its members Temple priests (1 Pet. 2:5). Christians offer up "the Daily Sacrifice" (1 Pet. 2:5; Rom. 12:1; Lk. 9:23; Heb. 13:15).

This is "literal", or better "natural, organic, originalist" interpretation, not "spiritual". Paul literally calls the Church the Temple of God. You might say he "spiritualized it", BUT I did not.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Can we discuss what Daniel said in Daniel 9:24-27?

Jesus referred us to understand what Daniel the prophet said about these things.



“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.” Daniel 9:24-27

Daniel 9:24 was completely fulfilled by Christ, that is why the 70 weeks ended when the New Covenant began, ushering in eternal righteousness:

"Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy. (Dan. 9:24 NKJ)

Those who argue sin continues and therefore this wasn't fulfilled, forget sin continues ever AFTER the period of time they claim the 70 weeks end:

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison
8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Rev. 20:7-10 NKJ)

It has been suggested the 69th week, and beginning of the 70th week was on the day Christ rode into Jerusalem on a donkey. He was crucified and rose from the dead in the 70th week, ("there shall be seven weeks and sixty two weeks....AFTER the sixty two weeks Messiah shall be cut off")

Then Daniel talks about the time that follows the 70th week, discussing what Roman Empire did (Emperor Hadrian did in 131-5 AD), who are the people of the Antichrist to come. Then Daniel goes to another completely separate week of 7 years that the book of Revelation reveals, that isn't part of the 70ty weeks. when the Antichrist's people (Roman Empire, Daniel's 4th Beast Ten Heads)

In the final 7 years that see the arrival of the Man of Sin false prophet, who morphs into the Son of Destruction Desolator, and sets up the abomination of desolation image everyone must worship, or die.

The fifteenth century inventers of chapter and verse divisions erred in verse 26, which should end at the words "shall be cut of, but not for Himself."

25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times.
26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

THEN Verse 27 should begin, the prediction of the Temple's Destruction by the Romans, who are the people of the Antichrist to come in the End Time:

And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

THEN verse 28 should begin, it predicts the arrival of Emperor Hadrian who sells the Jews as slaves into all the nations

The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
[ 24 "And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Lk. 21:24 NKJ)]

THEN VERSE 29 WHICH IS COMPLETELY SEPERATE "WEEK" AND APPEARS IN THE LAST DAYS:

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate." (Dan. 9:25-10:1 NKJ)

 

[JLB]

The Church is "the Temple of God" (1 Cor. 3:16-17; 6:19; 2 Cor. 6:16; 2 Thess. 2:4; Eph. 2:21).

Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17
Each person is individually is a temple (dwelling place) of God.
The Holy Spirit dwells in us individually.
Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.
2 Thessalonians 2:4 does not refer to individual people.
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
Paul is referring to the Day of the Lord, which is also called the Day of Christ and refers to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

Paul refers to the antichrist by one of his many names.

Here in 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul uses three of them;

The man of sin
The son of perdition
The lawless one

So now that we have the context, let’s examine your theory in the light of the actual scriptures and context.

• the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

Here we see the man of sin, the antichrist, a flesh and blood man will be revealed.

• who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God

Please explain how a flesh and blood man will “sit in” other people?

Please explain how a flesh and blood man will occupy the entire body of Christ, other flesh and blood human beings simultaneously throughout the earth?


Please reconsider your doctrinal position about this matter.