Christian Beliefs

[mutzrein]

Weird. I posted 2 replies in the last 48 hours that didn't show up on this thread w/ verses pointing to Jesus being fully God.

Any way, here are a few of the ones I posted

John 8:24 & 58 are clear references to Jesus not just stating that He is the Messiah, but that He is indeed God. This is why the Jewish leaders wanted to stone him in v. 59. Claiming to be God was a stonable offense.

Romans 9:5 is crystal clear! ..."the Christ who is God over all..."

2 Peter 1:1 - ...the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ. Jesus is not only referred to as Savior, but also as God.

Todd - For me, nothing I have read in scripture points to Jesus being fully God. And I wish, when the bible is quoted, that it is done in contect rather than a few words of a verse.

All you have shown here is that man has manipulated scripture to say what HE wants it to say.

Compare your version with KJV

Romans 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Blessings

 

[shad]

by handy on Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:57 pm

I understand that shad will be out for a while, but I'm going to post this for consideration by anyone else who troubles over Hebrews 1:8-10:

shad said, "I am not scholar I will not argue about vague conflicted Scriptures."

I would really like to see a list of Scriptures that these, not vague but on the contrary quite clear and concise, verses conflict with.

Hebrews 1:8-10 (New American Standard Bible)

8But of the Son He says,
"(A)YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF [a]HIS KINGDOM.
9"(B)YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS;
(C)THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS (D)ANOINTED YOU
WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS."

10And,
"(E)YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;

Handy,

This is another one of those which is not so clear use of the word "God". It seems that the Jewish people are using the word "God" in so many ways.
.

 

[Free]

This is another one of those which is not so clear use of the word "God". It seems that the Jewish people are using the word "God" in so many ways.

I'm fairly certain that they use "God" in only one way, and that is to refer to the one and only God. It is the fact that the writer of Hebrews applies it to Jesus that is significant.

 

[shad]

This is another one of those which is not so clear use of the word "God". It seems that the Jewish people are using the word "God" in so many ways.

I'm fairly certain that they use "God" in only one way, and that is to refer to the one and only God. It is the fact that the writer of Hebrews applies it to Jesus that is significant.

We are all free to believe what we choose to believe. Your interpretations do not harmonize with many other verses.

.

 

[Free]

This is another one of those which is not so clear use of the word "God". It seems that the Jewish people are using the word "God" in so many ways.

I'm fairly certain that they use "God" in only one way, and that is to refer to the one and only God. It is the fact that the writer of Hebrews applies it to Jesus that is significant.

We are all free to believe what we choose to believe. Your interpretations do not harmonize with many other verses.

Such as?

 

[shad]

Such as?

thank you free, I was expecting you to say that. I will be back for your question.

.

 

[shad]

Here you go free:

Isaiah 40:25-26 (New International Version)
25 "To whom will you compare me?
Or who is my equal?" says the Holy One.
26 Lift your eyes and look to the heavens:
Who created all these?
He who brings out the starry host one by one,
and calls them each by name.
Because of his great power and mighty strength,
not one of them is missing.

John 5:19 (New International Version)
19Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

John 14:28 (New International Version)
28"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

Luke 18:19 (New International Version)
19"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone.

And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:3 ESV

I would like to stop here because I don't like to overwhelm the readers with lengthy posts. I have many more. Any questions so far?

 

[Free]

Here you go free:

Isaiah 40:25-26 (New International Version)
25 "To whom will you compare me?
Or who is my equal?" says the Holy One.
26 Lift your eyes and look to the heavens:
Who created all these?
He who brings out the starry host one by one,
and calls them each by name.
Because of his great power and mighty strength,
not one of them is missing.

John 5:19 (New International Version)
19Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

John 14:28 (New International Version)
28"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

Luke 18:19 (New International Version)
19"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone.

And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:3 ESV

I would like to stop here because I don't like to overwhelm the readers with lengthy posts. I have many more. Any questions so far?

Yes, I have a question. You said my "interpretations do not harmonize with many other verses." My question then is: How do "my" interpretations not harmonize with the above verses?

 

[shad]

Free,
I guess I have to go one by one.

Isaiah 40:25-26 (New International Version)
25 "To whom will you compare me?
Or who is my equal?" says the Holy One.
26 Lift your eyes and look to the heavens:
Who created all these?
He who brings out the starry host one by one,
and calls them each by name.
Because of his great power and mighty strength,
not one of them is missing.

Where do you find any indication of trinity in these verses?

 

[Free]

Free,
I guess I have to go one by one.

Isaiah 40:25-26 (New International Version)
25 "To whom will you compare me?
Or who is my equal?" says the Holy One.
26 Lift your eyes and look to the heavens:
Who created all these?
He who brings out the starry host one by one,
and calls them each by name.
Because of his great power and mighty strength,
not one of them is missing.

Where do you find any indication of trinity in these verses?

My point in asking that question was that they do not disagree with my interpretations. It seems as though you do not understand the doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[shad]

Free,
I guess I have to go one by one.

Isaiah 40:25-26 (New International Version)
25 "To whom will you compare me?
Or who is my equal?" says the Holy One.
26 Lift your eyes and look to the heavens:
Who created all these?
He who brings out the starry host one by one,
and calls them each by name.
Because of his great power and mighty strength,
not one of them is missing.

Where do you find any indication of trinity in these verses?

My point in asking that question was that they do not disagree with my interpretations. It seems as though you do not understand the doctrine of the Trinity.

Where do you see in these verses saying that the Father, the Son and the HS make one God? I have many more of those.

You trinitarians are clinging to the scriptures not so clear. I rely on the Scriptures which is very clearly saying that Jesus is Son of God and Savior of the world.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not be perish but have eternal life."

Above verse is the core of Christianity, and not the trinity, friend. According to you trinitarians, I am not a Christian because I don't believe the way you believe the Father and the Son and the HS. And that is so wrong.

And in the past, I could not communicate with you, so I am done with you on this thread. I am waiting on Dora's response, if you dont mind. We have to agree to disagree.

thank you.

 

[Free]

My point in asking that question was that they do not disagree with my interpretations. It seems as though you do not understand the doctrine of the Trinity.

Where do you see in these verses saying that the Father, the Son and the HS make one God? I have many more of those.

You trinitarians are clinging to the scriptures not so clear. I rely on the Scriptures which is very clearly saying that Jesus is Son of God and Savior of the world.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not be perish but have eternal life."

Above verse is the core of Christianity, and not the trinity, friend. According to you trinitarians, I am not a Christian because I don't believe the way you believe the Father and the Son and the HS. And that is so wrong.

And in the past, I could not communicate with you, so I am done with you on this thread. I am waiting on Dora's response, if you dont mind. We have to agree to disagree.

thank you.

Well, once again, I must point out that the doctrine of the Trinity takes those verses into account. Trinitarians very much agree that Jesus is the Son of God and Savior of creation. That you think such verses prove the Trinity wrong shows that you really do not understand the doctrine to begin with. It's not that you can't communicate with me, it's that you think you are proving the Trinity wrong when in fact you are doing nothing of the sort.

The doctrine of the Trinity best takes into account all that the Scriptures reveal about God; your position does not.

 

[shad]

Here we we go again, free, circular arguments.

Lets just Jesus judge between us who is in line with God.

take care.

.

 

[Free]

Here we we go again, free, circular arguments.

Lets just Jesus judge between us who is in line with God.

Are you saying that my arguments are circular or that we end up going in circles?

Do you not believe that the Bible has given Christians the ability and even the mandate to judge doctrine?

 

[shad]

Here we we go again, free, circular arguments.

Lets just Jesus judge between us who is in line with God.

Are you saying that my arguments are circular or that we end up going in circles?

Do you not believe that the Bible has given Christians the ability and even the mandate to judge doctrine?

When we continually argue in circle, it is not mature Christian thing to do. I believe I made my point clear. It seems to me that you are just nitpicking endlessly.

If you dont get my point or dont accept it, I cannot help you. We just have to agree to disagree.

take care.

 

[Free]

When we continually argue in circle, it is not mature Christian thing to do. I believe I made my point clear. It seems to me that you are just nitpicking endlessly.

If you dont get my point or dont accept it, I cannot help you. We just have to agree to disagree.

How have I been nitpicking? Pointing out that your verses do nothing as an argument against the Trinity is not nitpicking, it's pointing out the problem with your argument. It's not that I don't get your point or don't accept it, it's that your point isn't really a point.

 

[shad]

When we continually argue in circle, it is not mature Christian thing to do. I believe I made my point clear. It seems to me that you are just nitpicking endlessly.

If you dont get my point or dont accept it, I cannot help you. We just have to agree to disagree.

How have I been nitpicking? Pointing out that your verses do nothing as an argument against the Trinity is not nitpicking, it's pointing out the problem with your argument. It's not that I don't get your point or don't accept it, it's that your point isn't really a point.

I am sorry if you dont believe you are nitpicking. It is just my opinion. I decided we are not getting anywhere.

I am waiting on Dora.

take care.

 

[red46]

You make it sound as though believing in the Holy Trinity is a whole other faith. Are you not a trinity? If we are also trinity's, why not call God the Holy trinity?

I am body, mind and spirit. That's a trinity.

Another point. I can't imagine someone following the path of Jesus without first knowing Him and I can't, for the life of me, understand how anyone can know Him, without first believing on Him. Believing on Him, is our commandment and in fact, our ticket to salvation.

You completely lost me in your trend of thought. It makes no sense.

 

[glorydaz]

You make it sound as though believing in the Holy Trinity is a whole other faith. Are you not a trinity? If we are also trinity's, why not call God the Holy trinity?

I am body, mind and spirit. That's a trinity.

Exactly, and we are made in the image of God.

 

[red46]

You make it sound as though believing in the Holy Trinity is a whole other faith. Are you not a trinity? If we are also trinity's, why not call God the Holy trinity?

I am body, mind and spirit. That's a trinity.

Exactly, and we are made in the image of God.

Amen to that. That's what I'm sayin!!!!