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Christian Enlightenment?

S

Soma-Sight

Guest
The Question of Christian Enlightenment

It is the work of the Christian Prayer and Contemplation Forum to explore the frontiers where today's attempts to renew the Christian life of prayer and contemplation meet the history of Christian mysticism, depth psychology, a new sense of the earth, and Eastern forms of meditation. As these dialogues advance they will give rise to new and even provocative questions. Let's call them open questions, questions that we ask without having a definitive answer in mind, questions that ought to be explored. This issue is devoted to one of those questions: Is it fitting that Christians try to pursue enlightenment in a Christian context? First, let's look at the question itself. Enlightenment means the goal that is pursued in Zen Buddhism, or in certain schools of Hinduism like Advaita. The phrase "Christian context" asks whether Christians might create another setting, a distinctively Christian one, in which to seek enlightenment, a context that might be quite different from the current situation in which they seek enlightenment in a Buddhist or Hindu context. . There are, in fact, several layers to this question. First of all, should Christians try to pursue enlightenment at all? Secondly, if they do, should they do it by practicing Buddhist or Hindu forms of meditation? Thirdly, should they create a distinctively Christian context in which to seek enlightenment?

In actual fact Christians who seek enlightenment for the most part do so in an Eastern context. They sit with a Zen group, follow the directions of a Buddhist or Hindu teacher, etc. How else could they do it? It is those Eastern traditions that are the containers that hold the wisdom that Christians are attracted to. But does this situation have to stay that way? Must one practice Zen Buddhism, for example, to reach enlightenment? The answer, I think, is a qualified no. There is no single path to enlightenment. There are many schools of Buddhism and even many schools of Zen. Zen Buddhists, themselves, admit that there are cases of spontaneous enlightenment even of people with no connection with Buddhism. But it is, of course, true that concretely it is within the Eastern traditions that this insight can be cultivated and raised to heights that are not likely to be seen in cases of spontaneous enlightenment.

Let's admit, then, that concretely Christians have had to go to Buddhism or Hinduism to pursue enlightenment, but the possibility exists that enlightenment can happen outside of those contexts. Back to our question. Is it fitting that Christians pursue enlightenment in an Eastern context, or should they do so in a Christian context? Christians have much to learn from Eastern forms of meditation, but there the experience of enlightenment comes wrapped in Eastern philosophy, or perhaps better said, Eastern reflections on the nature of the enlightenment experience, and these reflections may not be compatible with Christian belief. If Christians sought enlightenment in a Christian context, this problem would not arise.

But there is a deeper level to this whole question. Should Christians be pursuing enlightenment at all? The answer will depend on what enlightenment is. Let's look at the possibilities:

1. Enlightenment is equivalent to Christian prayer, and especially to Christian contemplation. Therefore Christians ought to pursue it.

2. Enlightenment is not Christian contemplation, but is some other kind of experience of the Absolute or, Christians would say, some other kind of experience of God. This second possibility could have different variations:

A. Enlightenment is an experience of the Absolute, but in such a way that it is tangential to the Christian journey and need not be pursued.

B. Enlightenment is an experience of the Absolute and is the flowering and fruition of a deep dimension of the human spirit which would prepare us in a very valuable way to go on to contemplation.

Let's make these issues more concrete by looking at the story of the students of the Zen teacher, Koun Yamada. Koun Yamada Roshi had a zendo in Kamakura, and he possessed a special openness to Christians which drew them to practice with him. Some of them eventually completed their training and became official Zen teachers. So for the first time in its history the Catholic Church had priests and nuns who were also officially sanctioned Zen teachers. But this remarkable development has not been given the attention it deserves, nor does it by itself alone serve to answer the questions about Christians and enlightenment. In fact, it embodies those very questions.

Yamada Roshi never made his Christian students feel like they had to leave Christianity behind in order to practice Zen. But this was not an attitude universally held by the Japanese Zen community, some of whom wondered if Christians could actually fathom the depth of the Zen experience. Perhaps this was allied to an attitude sometimes found among Buddhists that Christians are caught up in a belief system that fosters a kind of dualism because God is seen as distinct from creation and from the human soul.

But what is important here is the attitudes of Yamada's Christian students. They, themselves, could not agree, and still cannot agree, about the relationship between enlightenment and Christian prayer and contemplation. Some tend to identify the two, while others felt they are distinct. Obviously this is an enormously important question. If I think that contemplation is the same as enlightenment, then doing zazen becomes the equivalent of prayer, and I need not worry about enlightenment in a Christian context because Christianity and Zen Buddhism are but two paths to an identical goal. But if I believe they are distinct, then I must eventually take up the hard task of trying to see how they relate to each other. Then I will ask whether Christians should seek enlightenment, and if so, whether in an Eastern or Christian context. As I said before, this is an open question, and I invite your responses to it.

On Christian Enlightenment, by Philip St. Romain

During the past eight years I have been experiencing a state similar to what is described in the Zen literature as enlightenment. In my journals, I have called it the "awareness state" or the "cosmic state." it may not be appropriate to call it enlightenment since that terminology belongs to the Zen tradition, and my own experience has not been validated or confirmed by a representative from Zen.

The term "Christian enlightenment" is, perhaps, sufficient nuancing since it acknowledges both the context in which this state has been developed and its similarity to the Zen experience.

My first experience of this was while taking a shower sometime in 1988. It was just a regular old shower - not particularly enjoyable. But at some point I "noticed" the droplets of water running down the wall and felt as though I had entered another world. There was nothing outstanding about these droplets, only that I found myself observing them in such a manner that they were immediately present to me. I use the words "I" and "me" here only as conventions of language, for what was most unique about the "experience" was that it was as though there was no personal, intentional self at all. Observer and observed had fused somehow; the droplets were dribbling "inside of me." Within a few seconds (I don't really know how long it was), my mind snapped into action and I began to try to understand what had happened. The experience vanished just as quickly as it had arisen.

During the days and weeks that followed, this sort of thing happened again and again. I would be talking to someone, walking, working in the garden, and then all of a sudden, I was immediately present to what was happening. All boundaries seemed to disappear, and with them all fear. I did not know what was causing this to happen, although I sensed that it had something to do with the deepening of my prayer, and the activity of the energy I was calling kundalini in my brain--especially in the third eye.

Having experienced contemplative prayer many times through the years, I noted similarities between this new experience and contemplation. There were distinctive differences, too, however. Whenever I experienced contemplative prayer, there was absolutely no doubt that I was in God's presence. The silence was of varying degrees, sometimes so deep that the mind could not even think, other times a bit more shallow, as in the prayer of quiet. I felt as though I was being grasped from deep within by God, and was being drawn to deeper union with God through the energy of love. This new experience was similar to mystical contemplation in the depth of mental silence and in the clarity of perception which ensued. It was distinctly different, however, in that there was no sense whatsoever of a relational union with God through love. In fact, it seemed as though God disappeared completely (or else "I" disappear); it is difficult to describe this nonduality, but that is one of its primary charac teristics.

After a year or so, I had learned how to "tune in" to this state, and how I fell out of it. No operation of the mind or will could produce it; what was called for was a certain shifting of my awareness from the particular to the general, then the state came in and of itself. It was never the same in depth and clarity; the condition of my body, mind, and intention seemed to account for something of its intensity and clarity, but not its manifestation. In time, I came to see that this state was, in fact, always there, and had always been there. It was the "background consciousness" out of which all my experiences of intentional consciousness had arisen. Everyone has it, only most people take it for granted and don't know how to tune into it.

In particularly intense experiences of unity, I have a sense that the one who is looking out of my eyes is looking out of everyone else's eyes, including animals' and even plants'. Plants have no physical eyes, of course, but it seems, nonetheless, that they are apertures through which awareness views reality in the space-time world. This overwhelming sense of unity does not annihilate one's ability to relate to others, nor to fulfill one's responsibilities. Quite obviously, it provides a qualitatively different context in which individual life is exercised. Individual life is real, and this is seen clearly. It is not separate from other lives, however, nor from the awareness which "sees" through all reality.

Several other positive characteristics of this state deserve mention:

absorption in the present moment; the past can be remembered, and plans can be made, but without nostalgia, anxiety, or other interfering emotions.

benevolence toward all creation; compassion toward all forms of life; after beginning to experience this state, I gave up hunting.

deep serenity and subtle bliss; other emotion, - even positive ones - disturb the state.

sense of having a body through which one acts in space and time, but of possessing a consciousness that greatly exceeds the boundaries of skin and bones.

there is no memory of what it was like when it is gone; it leaves no impression on the brain, no affective trace whatsoever, except a vague recollection that things were more clear; and yet, strangely, it is "missed," although the mind cannot produce what it was that it misses.

immediacy of attention and objects present in field of attention.

This last characteristic is a highly distinctive one. It is what I noticed when I first saw the droplets of water in the shower. By immediacy of attention, I mean that whatever comes into the field of attention is present without triggering a mental reaction of any kind. There is no movement of the mind to relate the perception to a previous one, nor to a particular intention we may be working out of. What is seen (or heard or touched) is present to one without distortion, as though reflecting off of a spotless mirror within one's being. In this state, it is possible to know an object "as it is," rather than for any kind of meaning imposed on it by the mind. There is a natural delight in encountering anything in this manner. Even the simplest of things - a leaf, or blade of grass - can be a source of deep mystery and wonder.

Learning to tune into the background awareness is the next step, and it is here that some very specific disciplines can be helpful. The simplest and most effective way for me is to let go of all ideas concerning "who I am," and to look out of my eyes as though they are windows into space-time reality. I then simply note that a being is peering out of these eyes, and I rest in this awareness of the fact "that I am." Sometimes, I will also note that the observer is greater than the body, and I experience that this is so - that my body is part of my being, and that my being goes out beyond my body. The mind can suggest these simple disciplines, but what happens after that is not in any way created by the mind. Before the simple awareness "that I am" a being whose boundaries are virtually limitless, the mind is struck dumb, for it has no sensory perceptions upon which to operate. Its conceptual understanding of God and soul is such that it does not shut down the experience by generating anxiety or confusion, but I wish to make it clear that the awareness state is not like other roles or identities created by the mind to accomplish a certain task. It is, instead, an experience of being-here-now: nothing more, nothing less.

Another prayer and meditative practice that I use is, with eyes closed in a quiet place, to simply be present to God in the moment, consciously surrendering to God all thoughts and desires that make any claim on my attention. This is similar to Buddhist vipassana meditation, only it is done in a relational context. By letting go of everything with the intent to be present to God more deeply, the mind and will are calmed. If the grace of mystical contemplation is given, I enjoy it. If not, I rest in the deep silence of cosmic awareness with eyes closed. There is boundless tranquility, and sometimes I see brilliant blue and purple lights, which energize the mind and heart.

But what to make of all this from a Christian context? After all, I was not (and still am not) a practicing Buddhist. Even though I had read about the beliefs and practices of other religions for years, and had made a retreat on Zen, my coming to this experience was in the context of Christian spirituality. I had heard of enlightenment, and had an intimation of what it was - thanks in large part to the writings of Thomas Merton. But I had never expected to experience it, and had certainly not set the realization of it as the goal of my Christian life. It appeared spontaneously, and whenever it did so, I endeavored to learn what I could about from whence it came, and how it went. That I could eventually tune into it at will distinguished it from mystical contemplation, whose comings and goings I could not control, even though I desired it greatly. It was, to me, an experience of the "natural" order. But what kind of experience was it? A good one, for sure: there was no doubting that! Yet finding confirmation of this experience in the Christian literature has not been easy. The overwhelming concern there seems to be with mystical contemplation.

I will not pretend to have a completely satisfactory philosophical or theological explanation of this experience. To say that it is natural, for example, does not in any way imply that it is not also an experience of God. The identity of the "observer" is a great mystery. It is clearly not the intentional Ego, and yet it is very familiar. That it leaves no impression in the personal, affective memory also makes me suspect a transpersonal origin; so does the experience of the observer looking out from all of creation. It is difficult to attribute this to any kind of individual self, and so increasingly, I tend to think of it as Christ, who has bound himself to me through his incarnation, death, resurrection and ascension so that my life and all of creation now unfolds in him. The absence of fear and the benevolence toward all is also testimony to the presence of the Love which knows no anxiety and wishes the best for all. Between Christ and my deepest self, from which my individuality springs, there is no separation. So it seems, at least.

And yet, as I have related, mystical contemplation is a different encounter with Christ. In contemplatives experiences, I sense that Christ is sharing with me his own inner, Spirit bond with the Father. In mystical contemplation, one is brought into the inner life of God - a life which is present to the deep Self, but which the Self cannot penetrate. Even in the state of cosmic awareness, where other people are seen in clarity and freshness, the inner life of another remains an inaccessible mystery. I might see the other clearly and know my spiritual connection with him or her, but the other must reveal his/her inner life to me for me to know it. Cosmic awareness cannot penetrate into the inner life of another person, much less God. Mystical contemplation is such an experience of God, and so it is a supernatural grace rather than a natural capacity.

In my view, there is no conflict between the two states. Even though they are not the same kind of experience of God, they can co-exist in a person, and even enrich one another. Mystical contemplation can help to open one to cosmic awareness, and cosmic awareness can provide the optimal conditions for opening to mystical graces. The role of faith, here, is extremely important. Cosmic awareness does not annihilate Christian faith in any way. When in this state, there is a disinclination to seek God through words, symbols and rituals, but faith preserves an openness to receive communication from God (Who is not a concept). One is content to simply rest in God as the Ground of one's being, but this does not imply a resistance to mystical grace. If it should happen that the Ground wants to erupt, or to communicate something of Itself, there is no boundary to obstruct It. This openness to a mystical relationship with the Ground is a contribution of Christian faith, and it is in no way diminished by cosmic awareness. Faith transcends all states of consciousness, and continues to be one's primary stance toward God even in the state of cosmic awareness. For this reason, there is no reason whatsoever for a person of Christian faith to denounce Eastern experiences of enlightenment. Nor, as I have shared in this brief report, is it really necessary to turn to the East to come to enlightenment. As the Buddhists say, we are already enlightened! We just need to learn how to wake up to this fact. That we can do so within the context of Christianity is, perhaps, an affirmation not sufficiently appreciated thus far.

http://www.innerexplorations.com/ewtext/chen.htm
 
Thank you for the post and the link. Very enlightening

In the higher layers of our mind with God's help and the guidance of Jesus we realize that there can be one pure consciousness in all things before we feel and see it because we permit our minds to reach out to everything with a feeling of unity and peace. This feeling of love permits adoration to flow through the mind to embrace the entire world. A metamorphosis of consciousness occurs at this point activating a more powerful stream of spiritual energy that enables the mind to transcend normal limits. We can then transcend the highest intellect because our reason starts to comply with our intuition. At this mental stage of Herculean achievement we build the foundation for the last two stages of love and a personal experience with Christ.

Thanks again for the post. God bless!!!!!!!!!!!
 
In actual fact Christians who seek enlightenment for the most part do so in an Eastern context. They sit with a Zen group, follow the directions of a Buddhist or Hindu teacher, etc. How else could they do it? It is those Eastern traditions that are the containers that hold the wisdom that Christians are attracted to.
Christians ought not be so ignorant of their heritage and look to Eastern Christianity for such spiritual experiences and growth. They ought never go seek out "enlightenment" outside of the Christian faith or it will more than likely lead them away from the faith.
 
Thank you for the post and the link. Very enlightening

In the higher layers of our mind with God's help and the guidance of Jesus we realize that there can be one pure consciousness in all things before we feel and see it because we permit our minds to reach out to everything with a feeling of unity and peace. This feeling of love permits adoration to flow through the mind to embrace the entire world. A metamorphosis of consciousness occurs at this point activating a more powerful stream of spiritual energy that enables the mind to transcend normal limits. We can then transcend the highest intellect because our reason starts to comply with our intuition. At this mental stage of Herculean achievement we build the foundation for the last two stages of love and a personal experience with Christ.

Thanks again for the post. God bless!!!!!!!!!!!

The ONE dance behind the many dancers.....

To see yourself through the eyes of another.... True Moksha!
 
Enlightenment is a word; a word often used by those who travel the paths of e.g. Buddhism or Advaita. It is also known as "the return to Innoncence" within the context of the state which occurs when the veil of our past experiences dissolves and we "remember" our Source. Within a Christian context ACIM refers to the phenomenon as "the holy instant;" a condition which comes about in the "Peace of God".
 
It amazes me how many Christians are afraid of words. I can't understand why a Christian would be against peace, knowledge, purity, God or bettering oneself. May we walk the fearless path of the cross with our Lord and Savior so we are not shivering in the corner when Jesus passes afraid to get up, afraid to move.
 
<Solo thinks to himself>>>>Let me try this New Age stuff.........: ;-)

Profoundness lives in the paths much traveled as we each develop at the rate of enlightment from our source of energy for the peace, knowledge, purity, and goodness in which we are encompassed. As Buddhism and Hinduism and mysticism and Christianity and Islam and all beliefs continue in the intercourse of love between all that is, without all that isn't, we continue to draw closer to that utopian condition which we will ultimately be a part of in the whole, apart from that which we have escaped from in this life to the next life from the last life. :o

<Solo meditates upon these words and decides that the meaning of words is absolutely worthless without being in line with the Word of God and God almighty's truth. Jesus is the only way, truth, and the life of the world, and there is no other name by which mankind can be saved. :D

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6
 
Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
 
Solo said:
<Solo thinks to himself>>>>Let me try this New Age stuff.........: ;-)

Profoundness lives in the paths much traveled as we each develop at the rate of enlightment from our source of energy for the peace, knowledge, purity, and goodness in which we are encompassed. As Buddhism and Hinduism and mysticism and Christianity and Islam and all beliefs continue in the intercourse of love between all that is, without all that isn't, we continue to draw closer to that utopian condition which we will ultimately be a part of in the whole, apart from that which we have escaped from in this life to the next life from the last life. :o

<Solo meditates upon these words and decides that the meaning of words is absolutely worthless without being in line with the Word of God and God almighty's truth. Jesus is the only way, truth, and the life of the world, and there is no other name by which mankind can be saved. :D

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6


:hysterical:

Solo,

Wheew! For a minute there I thought you may have been under the influence of that old book full of crazy and mind boggling words; A Course in Miracles. But then, good thing, :D you never mentioned anything about yourself as being nothing but an illusion along with all of everything as being nothing but an illusion! :lol:

If you would have gone to that extreme, you may have been a real goner. That book will mess up your mind! :silly:
I tried to read that junk book back when it first came out. Whew! What a piece of junk! The book was promoting literal nonsense. Everything being an illusion and irrelevant. Perfect book for a bunch of pot heads who want to run away from reality! The book claimed nothing is real! If you really want to blow your mind to all "Hell of confusion" that book will do it. That is, IF a person is gullible enough to fall for that crazy new age garbage. :lol: :crazyeyes:


But thank God Solo! Your small bout here with New age meditation was deemeed worthless and you came back to your senses! :D

Solo said:
<Solo meditates upon these words and decides that the meaning of words is absolutely worthless without being in line with the Word of God and God almighty's truth. Jesus is the only way, truth, and the life of the world, and there is no other name by which mankind can be saved. :D

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

.
John 14:6


Praise The Lord!!! :-D



.
 
Solo said:
<Solo thinks to himself>>>>Let me try this New Age stuff.........: ;-)

Profoundness lives in the paths much traveled as we each develop at the rate of enlightment from our source of energy for the peace, knowledge, purity, and goodness in which we are encompassed. As Buddhism and Hinduism and mysticism and Christianity and Islam and all beliefs continue in the intercourse of love between all that is, without all that isn't, we continue to draw closer to that utopian condition which we will ultimately be a part of in the whole, apart from that which we have escaped from in this life to the next life from the last life. :o

<Solo meditates upon these words and decides that the meaning of words is absolutely worthless without being in line with the Word of God and God almighty's truth. Jesus is the only way, truth, and the life of the world, and there is no other name by which mankind can be saved. :D

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6

:-D :D :-D

Very good!

You could fake a New Age Fundy!!

:wink:
 
Solo we can tell you have no respect for words or ideas because of your post. I don't think you understand the words that Jesus spoke either because your fear blocks a true understanding.
 
soma said:
It amazes me how many Christians are afraid of words. I can't understand why a Christian would be against peace, knowledge, purity, God or bettering oneself. May we walk the fearless path of the cross with our Lord and Savior so we are not shivering in the corner when Jesus passes afraid to get up, afraid to move.
Do you ever read into things a little to much soma? I know of no Christian that is "against peace, knowledge, purity, God or bettering oneself". Don't make up arguments to try and make your position look better or more correct.

Perhaps Solo's fear is the fear of the LORD which is the beginning of wisdom.
 
soma said:
Solo we can tell you have no respect for words or ideas because of your post. I don't think you understand the words that Jesus spoke either because your fear blocks a true understanding.
This proves that your understanding is not from God above. It is God's truth that I proclaim, and you can't hear it because you are not one of his.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. John 10:25-30

As a warning, so that you may escape the deception of the New Age false teachings, turn from your understanding to God's understanding, pray for God's forgiveness of your sins, confess that Jesus is the only way, truth, and life; and that you believe that he died for your sins, and resurrected from the dead after which he ascended into heaven as all believers advocate before the Father. Then do not read anything but the Word of God. Be not conformed to the world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:1-2
 
I especially like this part of the article.....

And yet, as I have related, mystical contemplation is a different encounter with Christ. In contemplatives experiences, I sense that Christ is sharing with me his own inner, Spirit bond with the Father In mystical contemplation, one is brought into the inner life of God - a life which is present to the deep Self, but which the Self cannot penetrate. Even in the state of cosmic awareness, where other people are seen in clarity and freshness, the inner life of another remains an inaccessible mystery. I might see the other clearly and know my spiritual connection with him or her, but the other must reveal his/her inner life to me for me to know it. Cosmic awareness cannot penetrate into the inner life of another person, much less God. Mystical contemplation is such an experience of God, and so it is a supernatural grace rather than a natural capacity.


Profoundness lives in the paths much traveled as we each develop at the rate of enlightment from our source of energy for the peace, knowledge, purity, and goodness in which we are encompassed.

Thats pretty good Solo.

I'm proud of you!
8-)
 
Soma-Sight said:
I especially like this part of the article.....

And yet, as I have related, mystical contemplation is a different encounter with Christ. In contemplatives experiences, I sense that Christ is sharing with me his own inner, Spirit bond with the Father In mystical contemplation, one is brought into the inner life of God - a life which is present to the deep Self, but which the Self cannot penetrate. Even in the state of cosmic awareness, where other people are seen in clarity and freshness, the inner life of another remains an inaccessible mystery. I might see the other clearly and know my spiritual connection with him or her, but the other must reveal his/her inner life to me for me to know it. Cosmic awareness cannot penetrate into the inner life of another person, much less God. Mystical contemplation is such an experience of God, and so it is a supernatural grace rather than a natural capacity.


Profoundness lives in the paths much traveled as we each develop at the rate of enlightment from our source of energy for the peace, knowledge, purity, and goodness in which we are encompassed.

Thats pretty good Solo.

I'm proud of you!
8-)
Words are so easy to puke out and paint with a human brush of acceptance, and most lies and deceptions are not grossly portrayed as being a trap, otherwise who would enter. The simple fact of the matter is that once one disregards the Holy Spirit of God and instead chooses a path that feels right to the flesh, the bait is set, the hook is dangled, and the wait for a swallow is on. Only those who live by their foolish perceptions of the flesh are caught, hook, line, and sinker.

Words are so cheap and meaningless apart from the truth.
 
Words are so easy to puke out and paint with a human brush of acceptance, and most lies and deceptions are not grossly portrayed as being a trap, otherwise who would enter. The simple fact of the matter is that once one disregards the Holy Spirit of God and instead chooses a path that feels right to the flesh, the bait is set, the hook is dangled, and the wait for a swallow is on. Only those who live by their foolish perceptions of the flesh are caught, hook, line, and sinker.

Words are so cheap and meaningless apart from the truth.

Listen Solo.....

*deleted*

"Also I say unto you.... Whosoever shall confess me before men, Him shall the Son of Man also confess before the Angels of God..... "(my first memory verse) !!! :angel:

The point us "New Agers" have to make is that there is value in other spiritual traditions and good fruits to be had for the peacemakers.

In fact I had a Muslim help me on my homework last week!!!

I dont want ot believe and dont believe 95 percent of the world population is hellbound.

Thats a false doctrine but the one that mainstream denoms hold fast to with a rabid fervor.
 
Solo put off your outgrown, wornout, and soiled gar-
ments. Your sackcloth of hell does not bring hope and the joy of Our Lord Jesus Chrit. It is Spring time of the Soul. Those who walk with Christ are rejoicing so why not join in because Jesus is not near hell so stop the doom and gloom.
 
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