[_ Old Earth _] Christianity and 2012

[Evointrinsic]

There's a reason I put this forum here, and that's because 2012 has a lot of scientific factors in it. First off let me state my position of the current world view of 2012. Not only do I not believe Dec 21, 2012 will be the end of the world/live on earth, but the Maya didn't even predict that! The original story behind Dec 21, 2012 has nothing to do with the end of the world, it is only now within the past few decades that this end of all times has arisen. But i'll get back to that in a second.

The reason I'm posting this is because I've heard quite a few people try to connect 2012 with Christian beliefs. Mostly saying that it's going to be the rapture, Jesus will return in bodily form, slaying of the wicked and the good go to heaven on that date. Now, I'm not quite sure where this is said in the bible that this particular date will be the sign of all these fantastic things, perhaps someone who agrees or knows more about these statements can enlighten me?

How does this relate to science? A few ways actually.

Astronomy would be the main one because the original prediction from the Maya is that earth will align with the center of our galaxy. Now, this is partially true. The earth does align with the center of our galaxy, but only from our perspective, it doesn't actually line up, but from our perspective it looks like it does. Our solar system goes on a 26,000 year cycle when we circle around the center of the galaxy, and eventually we will line up. But we're still a few hundred years off that mark.

So in that sense 2012 will happen, sort of.

Another more recent prediction (which doesn't have any actual relevance to the original prediction) is that earths magnetic poles will switch.

Once again this will and will not happen

Earths Magnetic poles switch/move around usually every 360,000 (i think that's a bit off, some 10,000 years or so, but somewhere in the 300,000's) years or so, and we can tell when this happens (although after the fact) by studying the earths crust. We haven't had a massive pole shift happen for something like 780,000 years or so. So we are well overdue for one. Someone discovered we are over due for one and then got the idea that it must be the astronomical event that the Maya prophecy predicts!!! Of course it isn't, but someone put two and two together.

I could go onwards about all these bunk predictions, but I would rather stick to the original question.

Where is it said that Dec 21st of 2012 has anything to do with christianity?

 

[theLords]

In short: Christianity and 2012 are in no way tied together. Christians who try to predict the date of Jesus' return do so to their own folly and usually receive quite the ridicule for attempting it. The Bible clearly says "No one knows the day nor hour."

 

[Deavonreye]

Yes, that verse alluded to is pretty fascinating, actually, but I digress.

Christianity or not, I don't think that Dec. 21st, 2012 will be anymore eventful than any other day, other than what celestial events may be going on in the galaxy. As for this topic, I would be surprised of there WEREN'T christians who took this date and tried to turn it into a "rapture of the saints" thing. I could be wrong, but I think such things prey on people's desire for "riches" that they don't have here. The claims of heaven seem to be one of great wealth, in fact, so many long to be freed from this meager existence . . . . . so even though it goes against doctrine, they will heed the words of those who tickle their ears this way. "88 Reasons why Jesus will return in 1988". Remember that one? Y2K? Times before those, . . . perhaps some small ones after. It is understandable that this date would incur the same.

I'm looking forward to the date, actually. It could be nothing out of the ordinary, but hey, . . . . . could be something interesting.

 

[Pard]

Oh winter solstice, I love the winter solstice, that's the day we go get our tree, so on December 21st, 2012 we will go get our tree, trim it, decorate it, and then wake up on December 22nd, 2012, because nothing more eventful than our tree trimming will happen on that day, unless a man made something happens because men are like that...

 

[Ashua]

In short: Christianity and 2012 are in no way tied together. Christians who try to predict the date of Jesus' return do so to their own folly and usually receive quite the ridicule for attempting it. The Bible clearly says "No one knows the day nor hour."

"No one knows the day or the hour" is an Hebrew idiom alluding to Yom Teruah: "The feast when no man knows the day or the hour"; and also has connotations with a wedding. (When Christ returns for His Bride no doubt.)
Yom Teruah is the one Biblical feast day in which you cannot predict in advance. The feast always falls on a New Moon. New moons decide the start of a Biblical month. Yom Teruah falls on the 1st day of the seventh month.

 

[Tailgunner]

Same thoughts here. 2012 is nothing more than another of those many "scares". As noted by others here, there was the 88 reasons for 1988 and the Y2K scare. The only thing I think will happen as the date draws closer is that the news media will begin to hype it up.
No one knows when the end will be, not the angels, nor the Son, but the Father only.

TG

 

[Ignatz]

There is no reason in Christianity nor any other religious/mythological text to believe that the world will end at a particular time/date.

The Book of Revelations could just as easily be talking about the fall of Rome.

Obama is not the anti-Christ.

The Mayan's calendar ended in 2012 just like ours ends on Dec. 31st.

The great danger to civilization is when otherwise intelligent, moral people believe that it is written in the stars or in an ancient text that civilization will end on a particular date.

These people are called: "Dispensationalists".

These people oftentimes believe that, "Since we are not much longer for this world, why not just close our eyes and gun-it till we run out of road."

This is a self-fulfilling prophesy, nothing more.

If we ecourage education and reason, and elect leaders who use reason and evidence, the higher angels of our being, to examine world events and react accordingly rather than using dogmatic faith and personal revelation, we can overcome this suicidal, pathological desire to see an end to this world that permeates Christianity and every other major religion.

Too many of the faithful among us believe that we are on a path we cannot veer from, and too many of us would wake to the news that a mushroom cloud was rising over what was once Jerusalem, and think "This is IT!" The greatest thing ever to happen to humanity is about to happen!

We would look at the oceans of tears and rivers of blood and think: "Just a little more time!" Without ever thinking that we alone hold the key to our salvation. Nobody is going to magically appear in the sky and save us from ourselves.

At every stage of our evolution, we have been hounded by destruction. At the time of our migration north-east out of Africa, some 200,000 years ago, archaeological evidence suggests that our numbers were in the mere thousands. The last ice-age decimated huge numbers of our species. The Black Plague killed half of Europe, and now, the parties of God are working to destroy each other and the rest of us in ever more massive, disgustingly immoral ways. Those faithful among us believe that the world is about to end, and there is nothing we can do about it.

Religious dogmatism is our current greatest threat to humanity's survival. When that mushroom cloud does rise, you can be sure that it's because someone who believed in God thought that they had it coming.

Make sure your children know as much as they can about math, history and science. Make sure that they take-up an instrument, sport, or artistic activity. Make sure they don't pretend to know things about the world that they couldn't possibly know. Make sure that they understand that we have more in common with our enemies than differences, Make sure that the greatest possible gift is to raise our children in peace and preferably prosperity, and make sure that they understand that those who believe that the will of the Creator of the Universe is ultimate destruction need to learn that there is a secular force out there that is more powerful than they are, one that also has unalterable convictions, and one that can also be offended, and that the religious fanatics offend it at their peril.

For some reason, when couched in the ancient, pre-industrial language of a far-away land things like prophesy seem to strike a particular resonance in many of us.

It doesn't need to be that way.

A light shines in the darkness, and that light is knowledge and reason, not a medievel view of bronze-aged scriptures or ancient calendars.

Learn everything you can in your short time here, and make sure your children are the carriers of the torch.

Be righteous, and light up the darkness.

 

[caseagainstfaith]

there was the 88 reasons for 1988

If anybody cares, I was big into the "88 Reasons" thing. I bought books and gave it to friends and family. I stayed up all night. Or, well, most of the night. Something like 3 AM or so, I got kinda dizzy. Wondered for a moment if that was "it". The concluded no, it wasn't I was just sleepy and finally gave in and went to bed.

As far as the "knows no man" the author of that book claimed that it was basically a translation error -- that the 'hour' won't be obvious, no man will know it intuitively, but that the wise man will be able to discern it.

There's some May 11 prediction going around, or something like that. And I think they use a similar argument as the "88 Reasons" guy did as far as the "knows no man" scripture.

I guess there's a new 1988 for every generation.

 

[theLords]

"No one knows the day or the hour" is an Hebrew idiom alluding to Yom Teruah: "The feast when no man knows the day or the hour"; and also has connotations with a wedding. (When Christ returns for His Bride no doubt.)
Yom Teruah is the one Biblical feast day in which you cannot predict in advance. The feast always falls on a New Moon. New moons decide the start of a Biblical month. Yom Teruah falls on the 1st day of the seventh month.

Does that mean one does know the day Yom Teruah will start?

I hope Mike sees this post. He was asking about this verse a little while ago.

 

[Ashua]

Does that mean one does know the day Yom Teruah will start?

I hope Mike sees this post. He was asking about this verse a little while ago.

Precisely. You cannot predict when Yom Teruah will fall each year.

It is kind of like saying something will happen on thanksgiving day in the year 15,485 A.D. without consulting a calendar (if such a one exists that deep in the future and I doubt it does.)

You don't know when the New Moon will occur. (Though science is good at predicting, the statement was made in allusion to the Hebrew idiom which in those days New Moon sightings were made by human eye; two male witnesses no less, and in an ultra orthrodox matter, should still be used over technology)

The beginning of a Hebrew month is signified by the New Moon. Yom Teruah falls on the first day of the seventh month and ALWAYS falls on a New Moon. Because of this, "no man knows the day or the hour" in which the New Moon will be spotted in advance. :O

I believe Messiah will return for his people, raise the righteous dead, "rapture" His living elect, begin his Millennial Reign/Marriage Feast, and put His enemies under His footstool in a chain of succession beginning on Yom Teruah, according to the Biblical Lunar calendar beginning with the first fruits of barley in the 1 Month of Aviv (Passover/april time) and not after the reprobate rabbinical calendar which calls Yom Teruah itself the New year against Scripture. In my estimations, This will all happen on Yom Teruah in the seventh year after the tribulation begins.

 

[Evointrinsic]

Just for the fun of it, I got the year 9999 calendar

CalendarHome.com - November 9999 #

 

[Evointrinsic]

Just for the *fun* of it I got the month of november in the year 9999.

http://www.calendarhome.com/cgi-bin/tycbig.pl?century=99&year=99&month=11&change=1&suppresshol=

It's just a simple mathematical equation really.

 

[Ashua]

Just for the *fun* of it I got the month of november in the year 9999.

CalendarHome.com - November 9999 #

It's just a simple mathematical equation really.

Lol. What date is thanksgiving that year?

(links never work on these forums for some reason. I just leave off http://wwww. before I post a url here, so people can just copy paste it in the address bar.) your link cannot be copied successfully because the forums abbreviated the url.

Yes, but is the equation worked out all the way to the extreme date I intentionally chose? Even if it was, the average person wouldn't know it. In context of my post, we are on a gregorian calendar. The prediction of Yom Teruah's visible New Moon sighting would not be quite so calculatable.

 

[Evointrinsic]

it's on the 25th. and yes, the formula which found the calendar for november in 9999 can be applied to any year.

It wouldn't be difficult to produce a formula which could find that particular date your mentioning using that particular calendar either. Mathematics is an amazing discovery, unfortunately i'm not well versed in it to produce that formula.

 

[theLords]

2 - No foul language or symbols to suggest such remarks. This is a Christian site, plus, there may be young ones on the board.

Thanks for your consideration!

 

[Evointrinsic]

??????????

I'm confused

 

[Ashua]

it's on the 25th. and yes, the formula which found the calendar for november in 9999 can be applied to any year.

It wouldn't be difficult to produce a formula which could find that particular date your mentioning using that particular calendar either. Mathematics is an amazing discovery, unfortunately i'm not well versed in it to produce that formula.

The way the Law of Moses reads, the New Moon is something that must be visibly spotted and confirmed by two or more male witnesses. There is an official, distinctly human component to it. You can kind of compare it to ground hog's day.

 

[Tailgunner]

2 - No pornography links or photos. No vulgar sexual remarks. No foul language or symbols to suggest such remarks. This is a Christian site, plus, there may be young ones on the board.

Thanks for your consideration!

Frankly, I'm confused also. What gives, theLords?

TG

 

[caseagainstfaith]

I assumed somebody posted something naughty and it was deleted. It wasn't me.

 

[theLords]

Frankly, I'm confused also. What gives, theLords?

TG

Someone violated the ToS "No foul language" and posts were edited.