Christianity, Its Gender Roles and Their Morality

[Cookiejean]

Read Galatians 3:22-29

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither MALE nor FEMALE: for YE are ALL ONE in Christ Jesus.

I have heard many women ministers preach to MEN as well as WOMEN and found that the sermon was very inspiring and knowledgeable with great results of sinners becoming christians.

Back when I was young, I remember going to church and seeing more women there then men. and the most prayer requests were for husbands to come to church with their wives and be saved. That was most churches back then, and that was with male ministers.

God Bless,
sister in Christ Jesus
cookiejean

 

[Jack Lewis]

When I was 18 I worked out for a long time and tried to get a job as a construction worker (excercise at work plus doing something worthwhile) When I met Chris he liked me because I wasn't meek and submissive and whatnot, he wanted an equal partner so he didn't have to do it alone. I'm pretty sure God know's how He made me and Chris so He gave us to each other. Chris is actually better at nurturing.

A test conducted on a group of college students divided them into pairs after first giving them a written test to determine levels of dominance. After the tests were evaluated, the students were divided into three groups. The first group of pairs of same sexed partners, the second, partners of different sex with the man having a higher dominance and the third, mixed, with the women having the higher dominance. The partners were to choose which of the two would be the leader and which would be the follower. Of the same sexed pairs the one higher in dominance was chosen as leader 70% of the time. Of the second group, the man with the higher dominance was chosen leader 90% of the time. Of the third, the woman with the higher dominance was chosen only 20% of the time, and in the majority of these cases it was the high-dominant woman who made the decision - deciding that her male partner should be the leader. -- Kay Deaux, The Behavior of Men and Women (Monterey, CA: Brooks-Cole Publishing Co., 1976), p.117

Our gender and the roles associated are given to us so that we can act out a great drama. Men represent God. Women represent the Church. Sometimes the Church is assertive, wants dominance, can even out shout God, but in the end, things work out if the Church submits to God. On the other hand, we know that God always has the best interest of the Church in mind, and so much so that He sent His Son to die for her. Men, sometimes poorly so, play that part.

In this drama, acted out daily all over the world, we see that relationship, our part, and our expectations from God. Assertive women and timid men do not mean the drama is over, it just reflects the times God has allowed the Church (or the Children of Israel) to see the tragic results of not submitting to Him.

Little did Shakespeare realize the infinite wsidom in his words, "The world is but a stage."

 

[Ana'riel]

So, according to your post, I'm supposed to be timid and see my husband as God? : : : Oh you refrenced a study, I stand corrected in all my thoughts. : So all men and women fit nicely into exact roles like animals or robots? : The world isn't going to fall apart because me and Chris are equal partners, and God is evident in our lives. So I'm an anomoly, God knows how he made me and gave me a guy like Chris.

 

[Jack Lewis]

So, according to your post, I'm supposed to be timid and see my husband as God? : : : Oh you refrenced a study, I stand corrected in all my thoughts. : So all men and women fit nicely into exact roles like animals or robots? : The world isn't going to fall apart because me and Chris are equal partners, and God is evident in our lives. So I'm an anomoly, God knows how he made me and gave me a guy like Chris.

You are supposed to behave toward your husband the way the Church is supposed behave toward God. You let him lead. Support him and submit to him. I said nothing about being timid. He is supposed to take care of you, value your input, carry the burden of making the final choices, and make sure you are taken care of at the expense of his own comfort.

The world isn't going to fall apart but the union God created between the two of you won't be as good as He intended until you make it conform to the drama He created it for.

 

[Ana'riel]

Yes of course, a man spouting man-power *yawn*

 

[Jack Lewis]

Yes of course, a man spouting man-power *yawn*

So the Bible is wrong when it says in Ephesians 5:22-29:

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

And also when it says in Colossians 3:18:

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

If any part of the Bible can't be trusted, then none of it can. You can't pick and choose. It's all or nothing.

 

[Ana'riel]

Yes I guess you're right. I don't understand it and it amkes me sad but I don't want to go to hell. So my spirit is broken, you won the arguement.: :

 

[Jack Lewis]

Yes I guess you're right. I don't understand it and it amkes me sad but I don't want to go to hell. So my spirit is broken, you won the arguement.: :

Why would it make you sad? If God tells you to do it, then it will be the best thing.

Submission doesn't mean timidly saying yes to what the other person barks at you to do. It means working with the husband to prepare him to make the best decision, but submitting to that decision. Trust me, your husband will most likely balk at the idea. Try it. Tell him you want to do an experiment and for one week you will discuss whatever decision comes up, offer input and ideas, but the final decision will be his. He will be the one to stand before God and explain himself, not you. See what he says. My guess is he won't want to do it. It's not really in a man's nature to be that way. Some men try to do it because they are basically unsure of themselves, more than likely because they haven't really been allowed to be in control, so they try to grab control by being overly assertive. Hand him the reins and watch him scamper away. Show him the verses and talk him into trying it for one week. You will be totally amazed at the result.

 

[Ana'riel]

I have shown him the verses, and cried to him about them. You know, not every woman would let her husband take half the blame if she's the one who made the decisions, but the fact that you think that's automatically what would happen says a lot about you. Also, there's never ever been a couple who really did both make the decisions and had a good marriage? Please. Let's just leave this topic alone shall we?

 

[Guest]

Hmmm I seem to be a bit late on this thread but oh well. Could it just possibly be that Paul didn't like women? If this was the case then we would have to blow off the concept that God inspired the Bible, or certain parts of the Bible. Why would Yeshua allow Women to follow him along with his apostles? Never once did he say anything about women being submissive to the husband. If he did please give me the verse. This seems to be brought on by some male who was either Gay lol or he just didn't want women in an authority position. Sounds a lot like the start of the Catholic Church. Hmmm wasn't Paul considered to be the First Pope? I could be wrong on that it has been awhile and it could have just been a Joke I heard.

Ana'riel you can preach to me anytime you want. I'm a very good listener.

 

[Vic C.]

Paul, the first Pope??? No way! The RC's say it was Peter. Besides, Paul was getting his instructions from Jesus himself. Just because Jesus didn't preach about the hierarchy of marriage doesn't mean He had nothing to say about. That is why we have the NT as a whole. It was never meant to be a pick and choose NT.

John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

 

[Ana'riel]

I think he still had more important things to do than preach about the 'hierchy' of marriage, otherwise he would have talked on it. As in, the most important stuff is what Jesus focused on.

Lets talk about that hierchy. I get jumped on a lot and really the only thing I feel is that the man shouldn't be a dictator, or have the power to be a dictator. I usually get into arguements with people who thrust the verses telling women to be meek, submissive to their husbnads, so on and so forth, at me. Until I get so angry I ask, so a man is a parent to his wife? And then they throw out the verses where a man is supposed to love his wife and want her to be happy. And what I've gotten from all these arguements is this, it shouldn't be obvious if the man is the head of the house. Any man who loves his wife is going to seriously listen to his wife, especially in this day and age where a man has no more education or smarts than a woman. If the wife has a better idea, I hope the man would think of the family and go with what she says, that would be a leader-ish type thing to do. In short, all the decisions should at least appear to be all compromise, because if a woman submits and a man does all he can to keep her happy, then it shouldn't get oppressive for anyone. In other words, underneath all the fancy wording I think the idea is equalness.

 

[Guest]

Vicjr I did say I could be wrong about Paul being first Pope. Couldn't really remember who it was. Also it seems to me that maybe Christianity should be Paulinism or something like that. It amazes me that Paul, who never even followed Jesus until after his death, automatically takes control of the leadership role and starts changing things to fit his own beliefs. Most of the other Apostles even disagreed with him on a lot of things.

 

[Ana'riel]

Yea, I do think Peter was supposedly the first pope. Don't worry Faer, They're easy to mix up :wink: Peter was better anyway :P