Bible Study Christians, are on Probation

[Jay T]

Christians are......criminals on probation.

Point #1.) I was a sinner...I broke the Law....God's Law (1 John 3:4 & Romans 7:7).

Point #2.) I was forgiven my 'past' sins, (Romans 3:25) by Jesus Christ, with the promise to God, that I would not commit any known sin again....hence probation.

Point #3.) In order for Jesus Christ is get me qualified for heaven (Be perfect as your Father which is in heaven is perfect), Jesus must show me any sin that I am not yet aware of, and correct any sinful habit which would marr the faultless character which Jesus Christ is trying to bring out in me.

Point #4.) It is then, 'my' responsibilty to correct those faults in my present charcter, thru grace, which God gives me freely....as I have not the strenght to do the that work, in my human power alone.
As scripture says: 'Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling'.

Point #5.) Temptations ...are the testing ground by which my character is tested, on a daily basis.

The 10 commandments, as found in Exodus 20:3-17 is God's standard of Righteousness, to check my progress.

GRACE.....is God's free gift, to obey, what HE says to do......(Romans 1:5).

 

[Jon-Marc]

I know what probation is for criminals, but how does that relate to Christians? It is NOT just our "past" sins that are forgiven. ALL of our sins are under the blood. However, if we continue to sin (and who doesn't?), we can go to Him and confess it. He will forgive that sin. If we don't confess that sin, we can suffer in many ways thoughout our lives. However, we won't lose our salvation because God is not what is commonly referred to as an "Indian giver". He doesn't take back the salvation He has given us. My apologies to any Native Americans here for using that term. I have no idea where it originated.

 

[shamrock]

Christians are......criminals on probation.

Point #1.) I was a sinner...I broke the Law....God's Law (1 John 3:4 & Romans 7:7).

Point #2.) I was forgiven my 'past' sins, (Romans 3:25) by Jesus Christ, with the promise to God, that I would not commit any known sin again....hence probation.

Point #3.) In order for Jesus Christ is get me qualified for heaven (Be perfect as your Father which is in heaven is perfect), Jesus must show me any sin that I am not yet aware of, and correct any sinful habit which would marr the faultless character which Jesus Christ is trying to bring out in me.

Point #4.) It is then, 'my' responsibilty to correct those faults in my present charcter, thru grace, which God gives me freely....as I have not the strenght to do the that work, in my human power alone.
As scripture says: 'Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling'.

Point #5.) Temptations ...are the testing ground by which my character is tested, on a daily basis.

The 10 commandments, as found in Exodus 20:3-17 is God's standard of Righteousness, to check my progress.

GRACE.....is God's free gift, to obey, what HE says to do......(Romans 1:5).

If you want to compare with Criminal Justice, Maybe amnesty would be a better word. Amnesty (Pardon) with expungement of the Record (removed, erased).

With probation, the record always stands. Probation is not freedom. If it's violated your sentence is reinstated and you serve the sentence. There's no forgiveness with Probation.

With God, we are forgiven and covered by the blood of Christ. We become "new" with no record of sin on our slate, according to Hebrews 10:

14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,
16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,"
He then says,
17 "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."

I just think probation is not the best word to describe the fullness of this topic.

God Bless, Pati

 

[jgredline]

Christians are......criminals on probation.

If a Christian is made riteouse through Jesus Christ, how can he be a criminal?

Point #1.) I was a sinner...I broke the Law....God's Law (1 John 3:4 & Romans 7:7).

True that

Point #2.) I was forgiven my 'past' sins, (Romans 3:25) by Jesus Christ, with the promise to God, that I would not commit any known sin again....hence probation.

By His death, Christ satisfied the justice of God. He paid the penalty of sin in full. This includes all future sin as well....Paul cites two reasons why the righteousness of God comes through Christ's death. The first is to demonstrate that God Himself is righteous, and did not judge the sins committed prior to the Cross. The second reason for the Cross is that God wanted to show that He is both righteous and at the same time the One who can declare sinners righteous. Because of Christ's death, God does not compromise His holiness when He forgives a sinner.

Point #3.) In order for Jesus Christ is get me qualified for heaven (Be perfect as your Father which is in heaven is perfect), Jesus must show me any sin that I am not yet aware of, and correct any sinful habit which would marr the faultless character which Jesus Christ is trying to bring out in me.

Your point number 3 contradicts your point number 2....and the verse you used in point number 2, Rom 3:25 disqualifies your point number 3 as we are made riteouse through Christ and NOT by works....

Point #4.) It is then, 'my' responsibilty to correct those faults in my present charcter, thru grace, which God gives me freely....as I have not the strenght to do the that work, in my human power alone.
As scripture says: 'Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling'.

Yep, I agree with you here....

Point #5.) Temptations ...are the testing ground by which my character is tested, on a daily basis.

Yep, I agree with you here as well......

The 10 commandments, as found in Exodus 20:3-17 is God's standard of Righteousness, to check my progress.

And we were doing well.... First, we are no longer inder the law, we are under Grace... When Jesus said ''I did not come to abolish the Law, but to full filll the law'' he was not speaking of the physical Law, but the spiritual Law....
If really believe and I can tell that you do believe in works, then you have real problems....If your standard of riteousness is to try and keep the 10 commandments, then the cross is nothing and Jesus died in vain; You see we are made riteouse only through Jesus Christ, because of what he did on the Cross.....To say otherwise is heresy, plain and simple......

GRACE.....is God's free gift, to obey, what HE says to do......(Romans 1:5).

For obedience to the faith: The purpose of the apostles work was to persuade people to obey God's command to trust Christ,and not in yourself.......

 

[Jon-Marc]

If Jesus only paid for my past sins, then none of my sins are forgiven since none of them were past when He died. They were ALL future.

 

[jgredline]

If Jesus only paid for my past sins, then none of my sins are forgiven since none of them were past when He died. They were ALL future.

Amen brother Jon, Amen......

 

[Jay T]

If Jesus only paid for my past sins, then none of my sins are forgiven since none of them were past when He died. They were ALL future.

Revelation 3:5 "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.......

3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne".

QUESTION: What did Jesus have to overcome, that we also have to overcome, to be with HIM, in heaven ?

 

[Solo]

There are no works available to man for the remission of sins past, present, or future. Only by the blood of Jesus and faith in His works can one be saved. At the moment of belief in the Word of God concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ, one is saved from the condemnation of sin. Believe it or not.

 

[Jay T]

There are no works available to man for the remission of sins past, present, or future. Only by the blood of Jesus and faith in His works can one be saved. At the moment of belief in the Word of God concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ, one is saved from the condemnation of sin. Believe it or not.

The Gospel Message does not end, with the Cross of Christ.

The Gospel message is.....once man is born-again, he begins, to live a Righteous and holy lifestyle, thru the power of God.

Jesus Christ set the example for men/women to follow......

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

And Jesus said of HIMSELF......
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

 

[Solo]

The Gospel Message does not end, with the Cross of Christ.

The Gospel message is.....once man is born-again, he begins, to live a Righteous and holy lifestyle, thru the power of God.

Jesus Christ set the example for men/women to follow......

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

And Jesus said of HIMSELF......
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Do you only keep the Sabbath day holy, and the other six defile?
Are you sin free, since being saved?
Do you believe that Ellen G. White is a prophet of God?
Do you keep all of the commandments?

 

[Jay T]

Do you only keep the Sabbath day holy, and the other six defile?

I hope you realize that there are 10 commandments Christ wrote out on Mt. Sinai, not just 7, OK ?

Christ, when HE created the world, only made one day HOLY, which HE blessed it, also (Genesis 2:2,3).

If you can show me where HE made the other days holy, I'll listen, OK?

Christ told me, in the Bible that the 7th day sabbath was to be remembered, as special, not the other days of the week, OK ?

Are you sin free, since being saved?

I know you are trying to trick me here.....

Because if I say I haven't committed any sin since receiving Jesus Christ as my savior....you'll JUDGE ME !

AND...if I say I have committed some sins since receiving Christ...again, you'll judge me.

SO, either way, you'll judge me....NO THANKS !

Do you believe that Ellen G. White is a prophet of God?

One of the identifying marks of God's last day church is to have 'ALL' the gifts of the Spirit (Revelation 12:17).

The Bible tells me......
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

This Bible text reveals that all the gifts are to be in the church....UNTIL....when ?

Do you keep all of the commandments?

Trying to get another chance to judge me, huh ?

QUESTION: How is my ability (or Not) to keep 'all' the commandments of God going to help you ?

Even if I did keep all the commandments of God PERFECTLY......how does that benefit you, in keeping all the commandments of God ...which is required, for getting into heaven ?

I'm not your Savior !
Jesus Christ is your Savior, and it is HIM to whom you are to look towards for help, keeping the commandments, as HE asked of Christians.

My job, is to help prepare people for the JUDGMENT DAY of God....in which the commandments of God, is the standard by which every person will be measured against (Eccl. 12:13,14 & James 2:10-12).

Jesus Christ will Judge the church...FIRST.....

1 Peter 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God?
4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved....."

NOW....did you notice that last verse.......'righteous...scarcely be saved' ?

Did you know that RIGHTEOUSNESS is, defined in the Bible......
Psalms 119:172 "My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments [are] righteousness".

You could ask a 1000 people that go to some church, "What does the Bible say, Righteousness is"?

Maybe.....MAYBE, just one of them might know !

 

[Solo]

If you look at a woman with desire you have committed adultery.
If you hate your brother, you have committed murder.
If you keep one day holy and defile the other six you are sinning.
If you continue in your works instead of the rest that God prepared in Christ Jesus, you are not keeping the Sabbath holy.
If you have determined Ellen G. White as a prophet of God, you show your inability to understand God's definition of prophet.
If you cannot confess to being a sinner without understanding your sinful, corrupt, mortal flesh being, then your salvation is suspect.
Have you been born again? If so, what is your testimony.

 

[Jay T]

Have you been born again? If so, what is your testimony.

My testimony is that I know Jesus Christ can keep me from committing sin.
When He said: 'go and sin no more' (John 5:14 & 8:11)....is know that HE meant what HE said.
That HE has the power to help me do just that.....
Jude 1:24 "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy",

Christ has produced a people that have lived a sinless life...AFTER...they were converted......
Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

The Bible says it, I believe it !

 

[Solo]

My testimony is that I know Jesus Christ can keep me from committing sin.
When He said: 'go and sin no more' (John 5:14 & 8:11)....is know that HE meant what HE said.
That HE has the power to help me do just that.....
Jude 1:24 "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy",

Christ has produced a people that have lived a sinless life...AFTER...they were converted......
Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

The Bible says it, I believe it !

Are you one of the 144,000?

 

[Solo]

My testimony is that I know Jesus Christ can keep me from committing sin.
When He said: 'go and sin no more' (John 5:14 & 8:11)....is know that HE meant what HE said.
That HE has the power to help me do just that.....
Jude 1:24 "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy",

Christ has produced a people that have lived a sinless life...AFTER...they were converted......
Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

The Bible says it, I believe it !

I also understand that Jesus can keep you from sin, but do you let him, or does your flesh win the battle at times?

What does the scripture mean when it says walk in the spirit so that you do not fulfill the lust of the flesh?

 

[Jay T]

I also understand that Jesus can keep you from sin, but do you let him, or does your flesh win the battle at times?

That is the whole point....it is my choice at all times, whether I let Christ help me, moment by moment, day by day.
If I should fall into sin, I could blame NO ONE but myself.

What does the scripture mean when it says walk in the spirit so that you do not fulfill the lust of the flesh?

I believe this to be of value.....
2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

 

[Solo]

I believe this to be of value.....
2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

So you have an easier time of not sinning then the apostle Paul did; for he continued to sin, but you have not sinned since becoming a Christian, and you claim to not sin anymore.

• 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:14-25
  

 

[Jay T]

So you have an easier time of not sinning then the apostle Paul did; for he continued to sin, but you have not sinned since becoming a Christian, and you claim to not sin anymore.

• 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:14-25
  

Had you read all of chapter 6....7....8 together, you would have known what was happening.

BUT I know Paul was not a person who was committing wilful sins.......
Acts 24:10 Then Paul.......
24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and [toward] men.

Had Paul broken any of the commandments, He could not have said that !

Because the first 4 commanmdents, are in regards towards God.....
AND, the last 6 commandments, are in regards to his fellow man.

 

[Jay T]

Are you one of the 144,000?

I don't think anyone will know that, til later.

 

[Solo]

I don't think anyone will know that, til later.

I know. Ask me if you would like to know, and I will tell you.