Bible Study Christians, who end up LOST !

[Vic C.]

...If we isolate our family in Christ because of theological differences, it can be taken as an attempt to destroy the church and immobilize God’s body, which is something nobody wants to be held responsible for. Anyway, this is a very difficult issue to address, and I would love to learn more about it.

Good point. And yes, it is a difficult issue to address. I am like a coin standing on it's edge right now. On one side, I question whether it's even possible to fulfill the Sabbath the way it was required in the OT. No traveling allowed, no preperation of food, etc. A lot to consider in this day and age. The closest church for me that meets on Saturday is a Seventh Day Baptist Church, which is 15 miles away. Plus, I am on call 24/7. There is the rare but occasional page from work on Saturday which, in my line of work, is unavoidable. Would this be an acceptable exception for God?

Then there is the other side. In all my research on the Sabbath, I don't necessarily see corporate worshipping as a requirement. In it's purest form, I see it as resting and reflecting in the Lord. A day to memorialize and quitely celetrate His Creation. So I wonder still, is it proper to rest and relfect on the Sabbath but still worship corporately on Sunday?

I must admit, for those Christians that think the Sabbath has been changed to Sunday (and I know a few myself) in all my research, I cannot find anywhere in the Bible where it says specificaly that the Sabbath has been changed.

 

[Elijah message]

The Sabbath is secondary. First comes the total [required Matt. 10:35-38] commitment to accept Matt. 28:20's eternal Covenant 'conditions'. If this is done, [ALL] will say as did Saul, 'Lord, what would thou have me to do?' Acts 9:6.

Saul (Paul) did not ask, do I have to do it? Now, ask yourself again about Christ's BLESSED HOLY SABBATH DAY? Then think of Sauls cost to himself? Trained perhaps at the feet of Gamaliel & a member of the Sanhedrin? And as some believe, to be a member of Israel's elite class, they had to be married! And if that was the case also, then Mrs. Saul must of not made the same commitment as did Saul, and it cost him his wife also, huh? Think of the prestige? (not just a job that might be lost because of Sabbath keeping) Read of a 'few' others in Dan. 3:17-18 that even had a death decree given them, and remained determined in OBEDIENCE.

Think of the change that came to Saul from a few short verses of being a real killer to being called of God? There will be NO ONE IN the Kingdom of God that does not put Christ FIRST place in their lives! [NO ONE] And He says, if ye love me keep my commandments. The Sabbath is included & seems to be the one the devil attacks the most. Dan. 7:25.

But, please take note! Did Saul LOVE CHRIST before he asked Him, [WHAT WILT THOU HAVE ME TO DO?] Or after Christ stated VERY CLEARLY ... Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee [WHAT THOU *MUST DO]. When was Saul CONVERTED IS THE QUESTION?

Check out Acts 5:32 for your answer! True Agape LOVE ALWAYS FOLLOWS CHRIST. :fadein:

---Elijah

 

[Elijah message]

...If we isolate our family in Christ because of theological differences, it can be taken as an attempt to destroy the church and immobilize God’s body, which is something nobody wants to be held responsible for. Anyway, this is a very difficult issue to address, and I would love to learn more about it.

*******
Hi, Elijah here. Surely I am not in favor of calling the ones in Rev. 17:5 'the family of Christ'! : It seems that some here (me for one anyhow) are 180 degrees apart from this paragraph of yours!

Christ CALLS for a QUICK DEPARTURE of these ones in CAPPS EVEN, or the "MY PEOPLE" (that had not known any better) that are sincere will be LOST because they are PARTAKERS of their open trite sins!

Perhaps you just had a bad day, and will tell one how a fold got destroyed? Perhaps the Rev. 3:9 one for starters???

---Elijah

 

[evanman]

...If we isolate our family in Christ because of theological differences, it can be taken as an attempt to destroy the church and immobilize God’s body, which is something nobody wants to be held responsible for. Anyway, this is a very difficult issue to address, and I would love to learn more about it.

Deppends upon the practice of the individual who is called a "Brother" in Christ.

1Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Being a "christian" does not garantee that a person is a Child of God!

Judas was an Apostle of Christ!

 

[Preaching Clown]

ouch

True dat. Claiming to be a Chrisitian does not make you part of God's body. However, to say that someone must be theologically perfect to be saved is rediculous. So are you saying that those who worship on Sunday are not even part of the body of Christ? I definetly dont get that from the Bible as a whole.

 

[Elijah message]

True dat. Claiming to be a Chrisitian does not make you part of God's body. However, to say that someone must be theologically perfect to be saved is rediculous. So are you saying that those who worship on Sunday are not even part of the body of Christ? I definetly dont get that from the Bible as a whole.
_________________

Rediculous? Any one that says that Rev. 18:4 is agreeing with that statement of yours, is a babe in Christ. Do you understand what it means to be an PARTAKER of a crime? (Like driving the get away car!) No offence intended! :fadein:

Just stick around & make statements like that, & soon you will be on 'your own' defensive self, which is very hard to be corrected! Rom. 8:14's 'LED OF THE HOLY SPIRIT)

And another thing, do you even know what 'spiritual' perfection means?

---Elijah

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

Rediculous? Any one that says that Rev. 18:4 is agreeing with that statement of yours, is a babe in Christ. Do you understand what it means to be an PARTAKER of a crime? (Like driving the get away car!) No offence intended! :fadein:

Just stick around & make statements like that, & soon you will be on 'your own' defensive self, which is very hard to be corrected! Rom. 8:14's 'LED OF THE HOLY SPIRIT)

And another thing, do you even know what 'spiritual' perfection means?

---Elijah

Ok...what? Let me ask you a question Elijah message:

What Christian doctrine is essential for salvation?

 

[Elijah message]

[quote="Elijah message":6c777]Rediculous? Any one that says that Rev. 18:4 is agreeing with that statement of yours, is a babe in Christ. Do you understand what it means to be an PARTAKER of a crime? (Like driving the get away car!) No offence intended! :fadein:

Just stick around & make statements like that, & soon you will be on 'your own' defensive self, which is very hard to be corrected! Rom. 8:14's 'LED OF THE HOLY SPIRIT)

And another thing, do you even know what 'spiritual' perfection means?

---Elijah

Ok...what? Let me ask you a question Elijah message:

What Christian doctrine is essential for salvation?[/quote:6c777]

************
OK: Mark it down! Both are New Teatament Quotes of ETERNAL REQUIREMENTS!!

The first is the EVERLASTING GOSPEL of Rev. 14:6.
The second is the EVERLASTING COVENANT of Heb. 13:20.
Both are eternal & cannot be [SEPERATED]! Salvation has eternally been CONDITIONAL. Other worlds twice repeated in the Heb. book, who never sin. See Matt. 28:20s REQUIREMENT for us, as the starting point. One MUST realize that salvation is conditional!

Acts 5:32 is the bottom line requirement! No surender of ones 'total will' to obedience of Christ, finds one empty of the Holy Spirit. They can rest assured that they are not Born Again.

Remember Christ's first's creation, Lucifer, who committed the sin against the Holy Ghost by 'rebelling' against the ETERNAL COVENANT, where he was once the covering cherub over its Ark of containment. (Covenant containment) See James 1:15 END to breaking this Royal Law. It takes mature time to be lost!

Then came the ETERNAL [[PLAN]] for when it was needed (EVERLASTING GOSPEL) for sinners! The GodHead was not caught off guard even in ETERNITY!! (saved by faith in the future for some & by faith in the past by others, saved, ex/sinners! 1 Cor. 6:11) Yet, all Gospel has its testings. Adam & Eve being created 'very good' were tested, why??? Luciffer was created perfect, yet, he also fell, why? His character was not MATURELY perfect. See Nah. 1:9.

Over the Ark that contains the GodHead's eternal Covenant IS THE MERCY SEAT! This represents the Everlasting Gospel.

Surely the Everlasting Gospel & the Everlasting Covenant of the GodHead is THE ESSENTIAL OF SALVATION! See Psalms 77:13.

---Pastor N.B.

 

[Restin]

Sabbath 24/7

Well first of all, I am proud to say that I worship on Sunday. I also worship on Saturday, Friday, Thursday, Wednesday, Tuesday, and Monday. I find it very difficult to swallow the fact that God forbid worship of Him on a certain day of the week.

Isaiah tells us how to observe "Sabbath".

• "If because of the sabbath, you turn your foot from doing your own pleasure
  on My holy day, and call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable,
  and honor it, desisting from your own ways,
  from seeking your own pleasure and speaking your own word,
  "Then you will take delight in the Lord,...... Isaiah 58:13,14

Jesus tells us how to observe Sabbath.

• John 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent
  Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak."
  50 "I know that His commandment is eternal life;
  therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."
  
  John 8:29 In Jesus words "And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me
  alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him."

'Sabbath Rest' -- Jesus rested from 'his works' and did the 'works' of the Father.
Not just one day of the week, but 24/7. WE too, when we set
aside doing 'our works' and fulfill the will of God -- this is God's REST!

• Luke 4:16 "as His custom was, He entered the synoaogue on the Sabbath ..."
  
  Luke 19:47 "And He was teaching daily in the temple...."
  
  Rom 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every
  day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
  
  NASU, w/emphasis supplied

 

[Vic C.]

:-D Nice post 'Restin'!

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

Elijah message,

Nice verses you gave but you still did not answer my question:

What Christian doctrine is essential for salvation? In other words what do humans have to do in order to be saved?

 

[Elijah message]

Re: Sabbath 24/7

Well first of all, I am proud to say that I worship on Sunday. I also worship on Saturday, Friday, Thursday, Wednesday, Tuesday, and Monday. I find it very difficult to swallow the fact that God forbid worship of Him on a certain day of the week.

Isaiah tells us how to observe "Sabbath".

• "If because of the sabbath, you turn your foot from doing your own pleasure
  on My holy day, and call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable,
  and honor it, desisting from your own ways,
  from seeking your own pleasure and speaking your own word,
  "Then you will take delight in the Lord,...... Isaiah 58:13,14

Jesus tells us how to observe Sabbath.

• John 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent
  Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak."
  50 "I know that His commandment is eternal life;
  therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."
  
  John 8:29 In Jesus words "And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me
  alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him."

'Sabbath Rest' -- Jesus rested from 'his works' and did the 'works' of the Father.
Not just one day of the week, but 24/7. WE too, when we set
aside doing 'our works' and fulfill the will of God -- this is God's REST!

• Luke 4:16 "as His custom was, He entered the synoaogue on the Sabbath ..."
  
  Luke 19:47 "And He was teaching daily in the temple...."
  
  Rom 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every
  day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
  
  NASU, w/emphasis supplied

***
Very well done! Sounds like the Sacred day was as the GodHead stated, ETERNAL COVENANT, huh? Heb. 13:20 :fadein: Who that LOVES Christ would not want to keep His Special Memorial of creation day?

---Elijah

PS: You might just get Vic to make that 'short' weekly drive up to the 7th. Day Baptist group, yet! (or rather the Rom. 8:14 One)

 

[Elijah message]

Elijah message,

Nice verses you gave but you still did not answer my question:

What Christian doctrine is essential for salvation? In other words what do humans have to do in order to be saved?

*******
Hi, you just missed it, it was all there! Christ MUST HAVE the TOTAL COMPLETE 'WILL' of man again in OBEDIENCE to Him. As was at the beginning! (Perfect Adam) See Acts 5:32 That is the SALVATION DEAL! (EVERLASTING COVENANT *AGREEMENT! We sign it by Baptism)

Is that CLEAR? NO?? Try it this way, [LORD, I GIVE UP]!!! See Acts 9:6. Saul went from a real killer too.. "LORD, WHAT WILL YOU HAVE ME TO DO????" Spiritual suicide!

Then COMES GROWING UP IN MATURITY. "If ye love me keep my Commandments". (if we will?) But, the Lord does not want you dead now, but spiritually alive... BORN AGAIN! This is what it takes to be saved.
Then comes Sauls testimony in Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9. But not before.
We in partnership with the Master become safe to save, if we will MATURE by His additional.. "MY STRENGTH"! See Nah. 1:9.

---Elijah

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

Elijah message,

Nice verses, however; again you have not answered my question. It appears to me that you are "dancing" around the question and until you answer the question this discussion cannot move forward.

 

[Elijah message]

Elijah message,

Nice verses, however; again you have not answered my question. It appears to me that you are "dancing" around the question and until you answer the question this discussion cannot move forward.

********
Elijah here:
ask the question again, OK?

Dancing around 'posts'?? I received an Christian forum's e-mail stating at its start, that this is not a warning, (??) but... .

It seems that one here seems to think that my dancing around 'this thread question' by me comes on quite the contrary, to your [post] question?

And move foward??? Friend, God has been moving forward quite well in this thread question (Dan. 7:25-1 John 2:4) without me for years. And I might add that some here are also doing quite well in their [postings].

But the truth is, is that every one who reads my 'posts' should always try very hard to understand that 'i' most always try to respond to the [post] with the Master's personal Inspiration, and not to [any] poster in person. (such as mind reading or judjing motive)

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

Elijah message,

Ok so you are not going to answer my question.

Well, then there is nothing more I can say.

Oh the answer to my question was this:

We, as in humans, only have to receive Christ by faith. We do not have to do anything else to receive salvation because we are saved by grace not works.

(Darn I guess that means there is more I can say...more is coming)

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

By the way, if Saturday is really the Sabbath then that is fine...I do not work on Saturday.

The point I was making Elijah message is that if someone does not observe the Sabbath on the day it really is that does not necessarily mean they are lost and will not receive salvation. It is true that if that person who does observe the Sabbath is sinning but remember the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, i.e. rejection of Jesus Christ.

So in other words I am making the point that if you don’t observe the Sabbath that does not mean you are going to hell, or more to the point not part of the body of Christ.

SO I don’t see the problem with what Preaching Clown has been saying.

 

[Jay T]

For instance:
#1.) Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled".

I believe that Christ has fulfilled all things.

Is the 2nd coming fulfilled yet ?

Is Christ's minstry done in the heavenly sanctuary finished, yet ?


Is the Judgment Day of God over with, yet ?
(Which by the way has to happen, 'BEFORE' ...Jesus can come again)

 

[Joeri]

Elijah message,

Ok so you are not going to answer my question.

Well, then there is nothing more I can say.

Oh the answer to my question was this:

We, as in humans, only have to receive Christ by faith. We do not have to do anything else to receive salvation because we are saved by grace not works.

(Darn I guess that means there is more I can say...more is coming)

im sorry pal but those are pauls wqords and even then very misinterpreted. christ clearly said in matt 7 and 25 not everyone calling him lord lord and thinking the way you do is saved. jakob said faith without works is dead. paul said people that do not crucify flesh and its desires are still under the law.

 

[Eve777]

"My children will always be my children. We may have troubled times. Our fellowship may be broken, but our relationship can never be broken. They will always be my children. Nothing or nobody can change that! And once you are born again spiritually  God becomes your Father  nothing or nobody can change that! Your fellowship may be broken, but your relationship can never be broken! " by Terry Watkins


"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, SHALL BE ABLE TO SEPARATE US from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38

"My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:29
Jesus will NEVER leave us


Jesus promised He will never leave us. Jesus could not say this if there was even a chance of losing our salvation.


". . .for he hath said, I WILL NEVER LEAVE THEE, nor forsake thee." Hebrews 13:5

". . . and, lo, I am with you ALWAY, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:20
We already HAVE eternal life


When the Bible speaks of possessing eternal life, it speaks in the present tense (hath, have, etc.)  SOMETHING WE ALREADY HAVE! If we had to work or endure to keep our salvation, this could not be true.


"He that believeth on the Son HATH EVERLASTING LIFE:.. ." John 3:36

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE,. . ." 1 John 5:13

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE,. . ." John 5:24
Jesus will NOT cast you out


". . . him that cometh to me I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT." John 6:37