Bible Study Christians, who end up LOST !

[Elijah message]

Who are Born Again??????

Did some of the early on ones get the 'flawed' doctrine of 'once saved always saved' another way than by being BORN AGAIN? Or could it be that they do not understand that you must Obey the Holy Spirit to be Born Again? See Acts 5:32

Baptism of the Holy Ghost was just for 'some'?
Without Me, ye can do NOTHING Christ stated in John 15:5 last part of the verse, and that was 'just not' for all of His created ones? but just the 'professed' believers of the New Testament?

And Matt. 28:20 is a new thing? CHRIST THE MASTER COMMANDED, & THEN UN/COMMANDED??? No law??? And this is not the Tower of Babbling? Or perhaps it is just the Godhead's 7th day Sabbath Commandment that is removed??

Then comes: The Law of God was not in the Born Again Abraham's heart!?? It came latter & then it was 'finished'! Nailed to the cross! G-O-N-E!! Gone Gone Gone! (so says Dan. 7:25's ones)

"Because that Abraham OBEYED MY **VOICE,** (see Acts 5:32 again!) AND KEPT [MY CHARGE, *MY COMMANDMENTS, * MY STATUTES, AND MY *LAWS." Gen. 26:5 [ALL OF THEM!!] This is why he was BLESSED! (see verse 4)
But! There is NO Everlasting Gospel or Everlasting Covenant now most falsely teach! 'see' Rev. 14:6 & Heb. 13:20!

Interesting 'false' theology is seen in Babylon & in her daughters of Rev. 17:5 teaching! :

--Elijah

 

[Eve777]

Born Again is having the Spirit of the one who God raised from the dead in you. Christ in you, the hope of Glory. You must of course be truely born again and not just think you are.

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. KJV

You are SEALED....until when? Until the Day of Redemption......

 

[Elijah message]

Born Again is having the Spirit of the one who God raised from the dead in you. Christ in you, the hope of Glory. You must of course be truely born again and not just think you are.

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. KJV

*****
Elijah here:
What does quench & Grieve do to the Holy Spirit? It says do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God. But it can be done right? See Gen. 6:3 for the Holy Spirits Word of STRIVE. He can always be Quenched or Grieved away. See Matt. 12:31-32.

Now, it is agreed from this end, (me anyhow) that all of the truths, promises +, are all truth from God's end (side) of the Covenant. But ALL these truths rest upon [His Everlasting Covenant] of Heb. 13:20 & is GOSPLISED with conditions. His part & our part. That is our confession of faith, sealed by baptism. (we say that we arise in newness of faith, and give up the old dead self & ARE BORN AGAIN, right?)

That is what a covenant is. A contract between two parties, at least. God's promises are truth & cannot fail, but ours are not. That is what the test in in the garden was all about! And ours also! Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9 is conditional. We are to MATURE for the final sealing. Not just the 'ERNEST' of the Holy Spirit. This no doubt is where earnest money in home buying came about. Yet, there is to be a CLOSING time also! Read Acts 3:19!
See when it is that our sins are 'blotted out'. (off the heavenly record books)

Well, I will just write it out & close on the verse.
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, [that your sins may be blotted out,] [when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord."

You are SEALED....until when? Until the Day of Redemption......

That is truth, yet only if we fulfill our end of the Everlasting Covenant conditions! Are you familiar with Joel 2 & Acts 2's early & latter rain?? These are the times of refreshings.

---Elijah

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

christ clearly said in matt 7 and 25 not everyone calling him lord lord and thinking the way you do is saved.

Noted and I am aware of that. I am aware that lip service does nothing...it is your heart that must except Jesus Christ.

jakob said faith without works is dead. paul said people that do not crucify flesh and its desires are still under the law.

Noted but I suggest you read the book of James again.

Some interesting facts to consider when looking at James 2:26:

What type of faith do you have, do you have ascentia faith or fiducia faith. Ascentia faith is just mentally acknowledging something exists; demons have this type of faith in Jesus Christ. Fiducia faith is more than a mental acknowledgment of something; true Christians have this type of faith in Jesus Christ. A person with fiducia faith not only mentally acknowledges Jesus Christ but also puts their trust in Jesus and gives their life over to Him completely. Many people have ascentia faith in Jesus Christ, in other words many people believe that Jesus Christ lived on the earth at one time. Christians believe that Jesus not only lived on the earth at one time but that he died and rose again and is their savior. Carm.org says that, “Ascentia does not lead to works. Fiducia does. Ascentia is not of the heart.â€Â

- Above information, not in exact phrasing, taken from carm.org
- For a more in-depth look on the James faith without deeds discussion click the link provided below:
faithorworks

If you make the above considerations when reading James 2:26 and you couple James with Romans 4:3 you get a clear understanding that Christians are saved by grace alone.

So I believe we are saved by grace alone. If we do not have any works, or fruit to bare then chances are we are not saved. It is the grace of God that saves us not our works.

When one truly accepts Jesus Christ into their heart there old sinful self will die and they will be reborn into a new person who desires to do as God asks of them.

 

[Elijah message]

I have a question or two for folks here.

Forget looks & all the attractive adornments. Then ask yourself, if you marry the one that you love, the real love, can that love ever be lost?

Now, can one fall out of love? The reason for the question is obivous perhaps? But I am thinking along the line of Rev. 3:16-17's Truth.

There we see that Christ says that he will not have a Lukewarm love! That it is sickening to Him. Now, this is a whole 'fold'! Surely one inside this fold had their name recorded on the Lambs book of life at one time.

Then there is another example of the MASTER'S. It is found in Luke 14:33-35. "So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. (and as was stated by another, Christ requires the complete person!! then comes the BORN AGAIN life with the re/created Agape heart of Love. but now notice!)

Salt is good: but if the salt have lost its savor, wherewith shall it be seasoned? (as in the Rev. 3 verses, one can become sickening lukwarm) It is neither [fit for the land, nor fit for the dunghill; but men cast it out.] He that hath an ear, let him hear." Well, I am listening, hear what? what is the Christian salt? Or the watered down good for nothing type of stuff??

Matt. 5:13 "Ye are the salt of the earth: ..." read it. What is the salt of the earths meaning?

Col. 4:6 "Let your speech be always with grace, [seasoned with salt], that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man." Whatever you tell me that this salt is??? It SURELY can be had, & then, watered down and cast out! :

---Elijah

 

[Blazin Bones]

Great question Elijah. Can someone really fall out of Love.

I say no, you can't fall out of Love. The example given in 1 Corinthians 13 seems to suggest that true love really is endless. Because If I found a love like that in a girl, I'd never let go of her. I feel that kind of love from God, so I follow his lead as best I can. 8-)

 

[Blazin Bones]

After further discussion with a few friends, Vic and NPX, I realize that we humans can't have the agape, perfect, love that God has. So yes infact we can fall out of love, but I'm gonna live and strive to get as close to God's love as I can. 8-)

 

[Joeri]

"My children will always be my children. We may have troubled times. Our fellowship may be broken, but our relationship can never be broken. They will always be my children. Nothing or nobody can change that! And once you are born again spiritually  God becomes your Father  nothing or nobody can change that! Your fellowship may be broken, but your relationship can never be broken! " by Terry Watkins


"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, SHALL BE ABLE TO SEPARATE US from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38

"My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:29
Jesus will NEVER leave us


Jesus promised He will never leave us. Jesus could not say this if there was even a chance of losing our salvation.


". . .for he hath said, I WILL NEVER LEAVE THEE, nor forsake thee." Hebrews 13:5

". . . and, lo, I am with you ALWAY, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:20
We already HAVE eternal life


When the Bible speaks of possessing eternal life, it speaks in the present tense (hath, have, etc.)  SOMETHING WE ALREADY HAVE! If we had to work or endure to keep our salvation, this could not be true.


"He that believeth on the Son HATH EVERLASTING LIFE:.. ." John 3:36

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE,. . ." 1 John 5:13

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE,. . ." John 5:24
Jesus will NOT cast you out


". . . him that cometh to me I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT." John 6:37

i think it was matt 25, he said there that many people will come and say:have we not did this and that. and what does he say then? I HAVE NEVER KNOWN YOU. he didnt say:I have known you and forsake you now. no, those people al thinkign they are saved, have actually never knwon Jesus as he is, for if they would, as john said, they would not sin.
now indeed jesus is love and grace and forgives and we do sin, but that does not make you a total worker of iniquity, like the people in matt 25 he has never known. in other words, we never went to him in the first place, cuz if we would, wed have the works accompanied thru our love for the Lord.

 

[Elijah message]

"My children will always be my children. We may have troubled times. Our fellowship may be broken, but our relationship can never be broken. They will always be my children. Nothing or nobody can change that! And once you are born again spiritually  God becomes your Father  nothing or nobody can change that! Your fellowship may be broken, but your relationship can never be broken! " by Terry Watkins

***********
Hi, Elijah here:
I wish that you guys would not email back & forth, but put what it is before all us here, so we to can understand what changes our minds??

Anyway, about the above paragraph? (by the way, ALL the remarks are GREAT!) But after reading the above, think of this about the Godhead. Do you suppose that Their Love for Lucifer was not AS PERFECT as he was CREATED PERFECT WITH? Did you get that?? The Godhead [LOVED LUCIFER]! And in his creation, he also had PERFECT LOVE! (Not a MATURE PERFECT LOVE THOUGH!) Even before he was created THEY FULL WELL KNEW THAT HE WOULD IN TIME FALL! The fault was not that he did not get ALL THE LOVE THAT WAS NEEDED, but, that in 'time' his perfect love would become 'LUKEWARM' to the point of the finished act of rebellion. (see James 1:15)

Now: We love our children as perfect as we are able to, yet surely not as the Godhead did Lucifer. But what is to be satan's fate? See Obad. 16
So what about the human perfect pair of the Godhead's creation? Perfect IN CHRIST. (Rom. 8:1) You do remember the LAMB Sacrifice & Gen. 3:15?

Regardless: It was Adam & Eve's [FIRST] son who they did not LOVE???? that was rejected by his own FREE WILL CHOICE (see Gen. 4:7) that is also found to be in Obad. 16's fate. And of course Adam & Eve LOVED CAIN as did the Godhead LOVE Lucifer!! The problem is not that God & His family do not LOVE SINNERS. The problem is that OPEN SIN & REBELLION CANNOT BE forever retained! See Nah. 1:9 When FINISHED it MUST BRING FORTH DEATH! James 1:15 again.

How do you think these 'freely' fallen ones made the HEART of the Godhead feel? And Adam & Eve's heart, for Cain's rejection??? :
Does one remember the shortest in the bible? "JESUS WEPT"

---Elijah

 

[evanman]

Falling in and out of love, these are mere feelings that come and go.

Loving someone has nothing to do with being in love with them.

I love my sons--I am not "In Love" with them.

If a person came up to you and said, "I'm in love with your partner." I feel certain that you would be concerned!

 

[Elijah message]

Hi, boy, you are dense! :wink:

Elijah here: Surely you have been around long enough to realize that, that love thought is just a human type analogy from me? (but a pretty good one, 'me thinks' for the others seem to understand it, it just caught some dense ones off guard? :fadein

Now:
This is JUST FOR YOU!!

TRUE AGAPE LOVE IS TO BE FOR [ALL], THE WIFE INCLUDED, and you too, *BUT GOD FIRST!

(by the way, the cappppps! are for the 'spiritual' imbeded mental sight!)


IT IS NOT A FEELING! OR EXCITEMENT! NOR EMOTION!
BUT, IT IS AN [MATURE OBEDIENT PRINCIPLE]!! "IF YE [LOVE] *ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS"

Or else why would my wife of 48 years still be with me??? Even though I am young, well stacked, rich, good looking, educated, what else??? :fadein: Tongue in cheek had best be added, huh? Or else no one will understand?? (and Vic will shoot me with his stuff, huh, Vic? :wink

Now: With this above being said, surely God has given us feelings! But, these are never something that we are to test our LOVE TO THE MASTER by! By the way, I am in an a very good mood today, and I do LOVE MY MASTER!

Case in point though, before 'i' escape here:
Our Master AGAPE LOVED US DEARLY! Yet, feelings did not play the part of proving this love! MORAL MATURE CHARACTER did. As He was dieing, He said?? Lord, I feel good? No, He said, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE THOU FORSAKEN ME?" He stood on MORAL PRINCIPLE! See us, in Nah. 1:9.

And forum: I truely DO AGAPE LOVE THIS GUY also! Perhaps his 'posts' are as good as one can expect from a unseen [true] friend?

---Elijah

 

[evanman]

Elijah-Are you accusing me of being dense?

You've only just figured this out. In fact I'm much worse that you could imagine!--But for the Grace of God, and all that!

 

[Elijah message]

Elijah-Are you accusing me of being dense?

You've only just figured this out. In fact I'm much worse that you could imagine!--But for the Grace of God, and all that!

******
Well, not on that post anyway. On the other remark OF BEING MUCH WORSE? Me too! Also all the other stuff, hard hearing is the worse, maybe? And spelling??? Wow! wish they had a spell check come up before posting is accepted. A few do have.
---Elijah