Growth Church Hopping...

[Edward]

This question arose out of another thread, and not wanting to veer the other thread off topic too much, let's discuss it here.

Ok, so...suppose your church doesn't stick to a certain doctrine that is your belief or something. Or perhaps they condone a certain sin that you know is wrong...something of that nature. I have, over time, read where quite a few people have wanted to leave their church for another church for some reason (could be anything)...(At some point of course, I can see this, if it was a very very serious situation, then perhaps it may be the best thing to shake the dust off of your feet, and move on), but it seems to be almost the norm to church hop for a lot of reasons.

We are one body of Christ, so is this right, if the situation is not a huge deal but only a slight departure of correctness on the church's part? If you can see that the church needs help in some area, then, perhaps we could help correct them, rather than move on? Maybe that's why the Lord has you in that church? We are one body and each of us have a certain Christian responsibility to help others of the faith, do we not? Assuming we do not have a beam in our own eye...can we help? Should we help? Instead of church hopping.

On the flip side, is it really church hopping if we are all one body? One body means one church, right?

 

[Gary]

This question arose out of another thread, and not wanting to veer the other thread off topic too much, let's discuss it here.

Ok, so...suppose your church doesn't stick to a certain doctrine that is your belief or something. Or perhaps they condone a certain sin that you know is wrong...something of that nature.

If you know beyond a shadow of doubt that sin is being overlooked and you choose to remain under the authority of that church, you are a partaker of it's sin.

Hebrews 10
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

Something to think about.

We are one body of Christ, so is this right, if the situation is not a huge deal but only a slight departure of correctness on the church's part?

James puts it like this:

James 2
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.


Again....

On the flip side, is it really church hopping if we are all one body? One body means one church, right?

The Body of Christ has no divisions.

1 Corinthians 1
10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.




I do not attend church for the very reasons I've posted. I'm not here to discourage anyone from attending the church of their choice. I choose not to attend. If I'm wrong, I will find out in the end. My convictions are my own and I push them on no one.

One more thing before I go.

Matthew 15
12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”
13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted.
14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

If there is real sin in the church, you try to address it with the pastor and nothing happens, I think you should move on. My pastor has a word for modern day "church hoppers." He calls them "consumer Christians." They go from church to church to find the stuff that they can consume. If the youth group isn't good enough for them or if the praise and worship team isn't up the their standards they leave and go somewhere they can "consume" more stuff. We are here to serve not to be served. My opinion, we should find a church where we are compatible and find a place in that church to serve. Sometimes that requires "church hopping" for awhile.

 

[Deborah13]

I do like to see, if at all possible, that people are a part of a church within their local community where they live. In the city that would be as close to their neighborhood as possible.
My thinking on this is that one's witness is among the people that you live with. You see them around, use the stores, kids in the same schools, etc.
They see the way we live and that is our witness to life in Christ.

 

[tim-from-pa]

If there is real sin in the church, you try to address it with the pastor and nothing happens, I think you should move on. My pastor has a word for modern day "church hoppers." He calls them "consumer Christians." They go from church to church to find the stuff that they can consume. If the youth group isn't good enough for them or if the praise and worship team isn't up the their standards they leave and go somewhere they can "consume" more stuff. We are here to serve not to be served. My opinion, we should find a church where we are compatible and find a place in that church to serve. Sometimes that requires "church hopping" for awhile.

Actually, I would hope that a person does not hop for the reasons stated above. I find that shallow. But then there's IMO at least two types people who hop. Those who want things just a certain way, more or less liturgy, groups, church customs, ect (shallow reasons). These people are social Christians and are looking for the right social club. Then there's those like me, although I would not say I hop churches on a regular basis at age 54 only on my 5th. But it's often enough to ask why? The reason is deeper --- doctrine, sin, teaching, eschatology, ect. Some people actually study the bible deeply and find that much of what is out there are "traditions of men", not scriptural. A person as myself, is finding it harder and harder to find such a place and gravitate more toward private, home gatherings. It seems anyone with a denominational name now just became part of an establishment --- they started out well, but then human nature took over if you know what I mean. Even if they are (or were) the true church, the rest are there "because my parents made me" or whatever other reason and then after a generation or two the weeds creep in.

I think to stop this we need to simply preach the gospel and let the response to God instead of winning converts. Not everyone is called to be saved in this age. Right now, God is not trying to save everyone but are preparing a special people to be Kings and Priests for the Kingdom to come (aka the church Revelation 1:6). The rest will be called later. But when we try to do the conversion for God, then you get all types of Tom Dicks and Harry's in the church and because a denominational nightmare where nobody can agree on anything. Right now, Jesus is very particular as to who he wants to follow him. The rest of the people, calling themselves Christians with their antics, just bring shame on everything.

 

[Edward]

If you know beyond a shadow of doubt that sin is being overlooked and you choose to remain under the authority of that church, you are a partaker of it's sin.

Hebrews 10
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

Something to think about.




James puts it like this:

James 2
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.


Again....




The Body of Christ has no divisions.

1 Corinthians 1
10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.




I do not attend church for the very reasons I've posted. I'm not here to discourage anyone from attending the church of their choice. I choose not to attend. If I'm wrong, I will find out in the end. My convictions are my own and I push them on no one.

One more thing before I go.

Matthew 15
12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”
13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted.
14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

I agree with you on all points. Seems like we're always on the same page. Question: If a certain church has a slightly different doctrine (that you know to be wrong) would one be well advised to move on, or to stay and try to help make a correction within?

 

[Gary]

I agree with you on all points. Seems like we're always on the same page. Question: If a certain church has a slightly different doctrine (that you know to be wrong) would one be well advised to move on, or to stay and try to help make a correction within?

I guess it would all depend on what your relationship is with the church. Most people get offended when someone makes an attempt to correct them. Especially those in positions of authority. I've had people say in not so many words, "I'm up here and you're down there and you're telling me?". I've even had it happen in forums.

Speaking for myself, I would walk away. If someone asked, I would tell them why. Otherwise, I'm out the door.

I don't believe the Lord will hold me accountable for walking away in situations like that. He even said, "Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

Teachers are held to higher standards and when they step up to the podium, they had better have all their ducks in a row. Otherwise they have no business being up there. I don't care how passionate they are about sharing and teaching the Gospel. When they take on that position of authority, the spiritual well being of their congregation is their responsibility.

That's just my take on the subject.
.

 

[Nick]

If there is real sin in the church, you try to address it with the pastor and nothing happens, I think you should move on. My pastor has a word for modern day "church hoppers." He calls them "consumer Christians." They go from church to church to find the stuff that they can consume. If the youth group isn't good enough for them or if the praise and worship team isn't up the their standards they leave and go somewhere they can "consume" more stuff. We are here to serve not to be served. My opinion, we should find a church where we are compatible and find a place in that church to serve. Sometimes that requires "church hopping" for awhile.

I agree.

The ideal is to find a solid community of believers that you stay with for many years and build relationships with them. Constantly church hopping really leads to shallow relationships with people and can be 'me' focused.

Having said that, I know people who have had to do church hopping and shopping to find that 'special' church that they feel comfortable going to and serving in.

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

Actually, I would hope that a person does not hop for the reasons stated above. I find that shallow. But then there's IMO at least two types people who hop. Those who want things just a certain way, more or less liturgy, groups, church customs, ect (shallow reasons). These people are social Christians and are looking for the right social club. Then there's those like me, although I would not say I hop churches on a regular basis at age 54 only on my 5th. But it's often enough to ask why? The reason is deeper --- doctrine, sin, teaching, eschatology, ect. Some people actually study the bible deeply and find that much of what is out there are "traditions of men", not scriptural. A person as myself, is finding it harder and harder to find such a place and gravitate more toward private, home gatherings. It seems anyone with a denominational name now just became part of an establishment --- they started out well, but then human nature took over if you know what I mean. Even if they are (or were) the true church, the rest are there "because my parents made me" or whatever other reason and then after a generation or two the weeds creep in.

I think to stop this we need to simply preach the gospel and let the response to God instead of winning converts. Not everyone is called to be saved in this age. Right now, God is not trying to save everyone but are preparing a special people to be Kings and Priests for the Kingdom to come (aka the church Revelation 1:6). The rest will be called later. But when we try to do the conversion for God, then you get all types of Tom Dicks and Harry's in the church and because a denominational nightmare where nobody can agree on anything. Right now, Jesus is very particular as to who he wants to follow him. The rest of the people, calling themselves Christians with their antics, just bring shame on everything.

Amen brother. It is getting harder and harder to find a church that teaches sound doctrine. We are in the "tickle your ears" phase of the church right now. A lot of pastors just tell people what they want to hear so they can get money out of them. You have to find someone who doesn't do that and it is becoming increasingly difficult.

 

[Angel]

It's hard for me to go to church because of my illness.
In a way, the fellowship in this forum is like being in a church.

 

[Eugene]

It's hard for me to go to church because of my illness.
In a way, the fellowship in this forum is like being in a church.

Dear Sister Angel you are such a blessing to us, and a glory of the power of God to keep you. My wife is full care and I have not been to the assembly I once attended for thirty years in over two years. We are gathered here in Jesus' name and I have absolutely no hesitation to claim the following scripture; Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. I praise His name for the peace He gives us in all situations, and I ask God that He allow you to continue being the edifier of others you have been in your time with us.

God bless you in Jesus' name.

 

[Edward]

I guess it would all depend on what your relationship is with the church. Most people get offended when someone makes an attempt to correct them. Especially those in positions of authority. I've had people say in not so many words, "I'm up here and you're down there and you're telling me?". I've even had it happen in forums.

Speaking for myself, I would walk away. If someone asked, I would tell them why. Otherwise, I'm out the door.

I don't believe the Lord will hold me accountable for walking away in situations like that. He even said, "Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

Teachers are held to higher standards and when they step up to the podium, they had better have all their ducks in a row. Otherwise they have no business being up there. I don't care how passionate they are about sharing and teaching the Gospel. When they take on that position of authority, the spiritual well being of their congregation is their responsibility.

That's just my take on the subject.
.

I've had that happen too. They were teaching traditions of men, and were wrong, dead wrong. I almost left, but I felt a sort of responsibility to stay and just get smarter in how I spoke. So that those less mature who were seeking answers at least had a flip side of the coin to consider and pray about. They didn't like it, they wanted me to leave. But they didn't have a good reason to boot me, lol. No matter how you slice it, the Lord has been with me. Praise the Lord.

 

[Deborah13]

Dear Sister Angel you are such a blessing to us, and a glory of the power of God to keep you. My wife is full care and I have not been to the assembly I once attended for thirty years in over two years. We are gathered here in Jesus' name and I have absolutely no hesitation to claim the following scripture; Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. I praise His name for the peace He gives us in all situations, and I ask God that He allow you to continue being the edifier of others you have been in your time with us.

God bless you in Jesus' name.

:amen

We love you, Angel.

 

[Deborah13]

I agree with you on all points. Seems like we're always on the same page. Question: If a certain church has a slightly different doctrine (that you know to be wrong) would one be well advised to move on, or to stay and try to help make a correction within?

Third option is live with it, pray about it and let the Lord make the corrections.
To me it would matter in just how big a doctrinal difference it is. Are they the only church with that doctrine (are they operating outside the norm, cultish doctrines)?

Or is it a difference in how I might see teaching Biblical giving in the NT, compared to the OT.
Or are they saying I can't speak in a Bible study, Because I'm a woman.

 

[Edward]

Third option is live with it, pray about it and let the Lord make the corrections.
To me it would matter in just how big a doctrinal difference it is. Are they the only church with that doctrine (are they operating outside the norm, cultish doctrines)?

Or is it a difference in how I might see teaching Biblical giving in the NT, compared to the OT.
Or are they saying I can't speak in a Bible study, Because I'm a woman.

Yeah, it's because you're a woman. (No.)

No. just traditions of men in this case. Long held lies believed by many since the 5th century. Many churches and seminaries still teach heresy today.

 

[Deborah13]

Yeah, it's because you're a woman. (No.)

No. just traditions of men in this case. Long held lies believed by many since the 5th century. Many churches and seminaries still teach heresy today.

Well yes! :biggrin

If it's been around that long and is widely believed in traditional churches and schools of theology, it's probably not really heresy but doctrinal differences based on the interpretation of certain scripture.

There are certain pastors I couldn't sit under. I'd be sitting there listening and sinning in my thoughts the whole time I was listening.
That would not be good for me or the congregation, even though I never said a word. That's the wrong spirit to have in church!

 

[Edward]

Well yes! :biggrin

If it's been around that long and is widely believed in traditional churches and schools of theology, it's probably not really heresy but doctrinal differences based on the interpretation of certain scripture.

There are certain pastors I couldn't sit under. I'd be sitting there listening and sinning in my thoughts the whole time I was listening.
That would not be good for me or the congregation, even though I never said a word. That's the wrong spirit to have in church!

I hear you. I thought about that before. But we have to keep in mind that different people are in different places in their walk. Some less mature, some more mature. This relieves us of the reason to become angry. We don't get mad at a 5 year old for spilling his milk, we understand that he's got some growing to do. So we pray and be at peace, and hold our tongue, and let the Lord work through us!

Differences in doctrine can be corrected with understanding and love. Don't go to the pastor and say "you're wrong", he'll be offended and get defensive. Instead, pose a question. "Pastor, I heard this this way, prayed about it, and it makes sense sort of. Can I get you pray about it for me and we'll talk later?" So you plant a seed that the Holy Spirit can water.

 

[Gary]

I hear you. I thought about that before. But we have to keep in mind that different people are in different places in their walk. Some less mature, some more mature. This relieves us of the reason to become angry. We don't get mad at a 5 year old for spilling his milk, we understand that he's got some growing to do. So we pray and be at peace, and hold our tongue, and let the Lord work through us!

Differences in doctrine can be corrected with understanding and love. Don't go to the pastor and say "you're wrong", he'll be offended and get defensive. Instead, pose a question. "Pastor, I heard this this way, prayed about it, and it makes sense sort of. Can I get you pray about it for me and we'll talk later?" So you plant a seed that the Holy Spirit can water.

Would you surrender the household finances to that 5 year old?

 

[Edward]

Would you surrender the household finances to that 5 year old?

No, but financies are not doctrine. If they misuse the Lords money, that is between them and God.

 

[Gary]

No, but financies are not doctrine. If they misuse the Lords money, that is between them and God.

My point is, milk drinkers shouldn't be teaching doctrine.