Growth Church Hopping...

[Deborah13]

I hear you. I thought about that before. But we have to keep in mind that different people are in different places in their walk. Some less mature, some more mature. This relieves us of the reason to become angry. We don't get mad at a 5 year old for spilling his milk, we understand that he's got some growing to do. So we pray and be at peace, and hold our tongue, and let the Lord work through us!

Differences in doctrine can be corrected with understanding and love. Don't go to the pastor and say "you're wrong", he'll be offended and get defensive. Instead, pose a question. "Pastor, I heard this this way, prayed about it, and it makes sense sort of. Can I get you pray about it for me and we'll talk later?" So you plant a seed that the Holy Spirit can water.

I see what you are saying.
BUT, the pastor of a church is not a baby drinking milk. I'm not talking about the congregation, just the leadership, sitting listening to the preacher. And I'm talking about big differences, not petty little things.

For instance I couldn't sit under a pastor who publicly prayed and asked the huge gathering of people at this meeting to pray with him to bring down a curse on other pastors and Christians who spoke against his teachings. He is teaching against the very words of the Lord and asking them to participate in his arrogance. Not only is he not Elijah, Jesus rebuked James and John for this, somewhere in Luke I think, because the people were speaking against the LORD, not them as disciples and they were still rebuked. Selling little hankies with his sweat on them????? Yike!
It wouldn't be good for me to be sitting there wanting to wash his mouth out with soap.

I couldn't sit under a pastor like Joel, bless his little old, happy heart. Give me some meat to chew on, please.

I would not tell a pastor what he should be teaching nor that I saw the scriptures differently, not unless he had specifically asked the congregation to do that. I have to believe that the pastor is a man of prayer and that the Lord is leading him in his teaching. That doesn't mean he will always hear perfectly but he is sincere in wanting to follow the Lord's guidance.
I have thanked a pastor for something he finally began preaching that I had been praying about. I didn't tell him I had been praying, just thanked him and told him good sermon.

 

[Claudya]

This question arose out of another thread, and not wanting to veer the other thread off topic too much, let's discuss it here.

Ok, so...suppose your church doesn't stick to a certain doctrine that is your belief or something. Or perhaps they condone a certain sin that you know is wrong...something of that nature. I have, over time, read where quite a few people have wanted to leave their church for another church for some reason (could be anything)...(At some point of course, I can see this, if it was a very very serious situation, then perhaps it may be the best thing to shake the dust off of your feet, and move on), but it seems to be almost the norm to church hop for a lot of reasons.

We are one body of Christ, so is this right, if the situation is not a huge deal but only a slight departure of correctness on the church's part? If you can see that the church needs help in some area, then, perhaps we could help correct them, rather than move on? Maybe that's why the Lord has you in that church? We are one body and each of us have a certain Christian responsibility to help others of the faith, do we not? Assuming we do not have a beam in our own eye...can we help? Should we help? Instead of church hopping.

On the flip side, is it really church hopping if we are all one body? One body means one church, right?

Never thought about this to be honest.
I often disagree with something the pastor preaches or choices the church elders make. One example, my church spent 35,000 Euro on renovating the church kitchen while the other one we had before was perfectly funcional, just not as modern and stylish as the new one. While most people are happy about the new kitchen, and I agree it's comfortable, I and a few others think that it's a sin to spend so much money on luxury instead of helping people or churches that don't even have enough to afford the basics.
But I wouldn't leave a church that is like a family to me over a mere disagreement. It's way more effective to voice my concerns as a sister and member of the church.

Doctrine isn't why I am going to church, but because it encourages me to pursue my own path with God. You can study doctrine everywhere on the internet nowadays. Real life church is for meeting people and singing church songs. Seriously I'm not attending for the doctrine, but for the relationships I have with my brethren and to share their life's stories and be a friend to them.
My church is way too liberal and diverse for a common doctrine anyway. We all disagree on stuff all the time. I had two controversial debate with good friends in my church after the service today. Well, okay, I pick fights because I'm bad at small talk.... anyway we are a liberal church with diverse opinions and generally accept each other's faith style and remain friends.

Now if there was a real bad issue. Like tax evasion, sexual abuse, openly satanic influences, political propaganda, or stuff that threatens the entire congregation I would rather stay and fight for my church to be cleansed and restored or renewed than to run away.

 

[Deborah13]

I like your courage and dedication.

 

[Angel]

Dear Sister Angel you are such a blessing to us, and a glory of the power of God to keep you. My wife is full care and I have not been to the assembly I once attended for thirty years in over two years. We are gathered here in Jesus' name and I have absolutely no hesitation to claim the following scripture; Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. I praise His name for the peace He gives us in all situations, and I ask God that He allow you to continue being the edifier of others you have been in your time with us.

God bless you in Jesus' name.

God bless you too!

 

[Angel]

:amen

We love you, Angel.

Thanky you Deborah! I love you guys too!

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

Third option is live with it, pray about it and let the Lord make the corrections.
To me it would matter in just how big a doctrinal difference it is. Are they the only church with that doctrine (are they operating outside the norm, cultish doctrines)?

Or is it a difference in how I might see teaching Biblical giving in the NT, compared to the OT.
Or are they saying I can't speak in a Bible study, Because I'm a woman.

I don't think that is of God. That scripture was for a specific time when women weren't educated. Many of them were temple prostitutes and just coming out of that. They were yelling across the room at their husbands and disrupting the service because men and women didn't sit together because of custom. Unfortunately we still teach that women are second class citizens in God's kingdom. Not true. I have a teaching on what God really says in Proverbs 31. It goes back to Old Testament Hebrew. It is a real eye opener.

 

[Deborah13]

I don't think that is of God. That scripture was for a specific time when women weren't educated. Many of them were temple prostitutes and just coming out of that. They were yelling across the room at their husbands and disrupting the service because men and women didn't sit together because of custom. Unfortunately we still teach that women are second class citizens in God's kingdom. Not true. I have a teaching on what God really says in Proverbs 31. It goes back to Old Testament Hebrew. It is a real eye opener.

I agree with you.
I have also read a teaching by a man that explained about where Paul talks about the less mature woman learning from the more mature woman. That during that time there was a pagan group of woman who taught that women were superior to men and that problem had come into the church with them. I think it was on the scripture in Timothy maybe, I should look at up again though.

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

I agree with you.
I have also read a teaching by a man that explained about where Paul talks about the less mature woman learning from the more mature woman. That during that time there was a pagan group of woman who taught that women were superior to men and that problem had come into the church with them. I think it was on the scripture in Timothy maybe, I should look at up again though.

Please look that up and share it. I would really like to know where that is in scripture.

 

[Tony Hyman]

I believe its also got a lot to do with not have the courage to confront someone directly with the truth when you feel or sense a disagreement .Not that I am so bright but Im busy reading a book called Telling Each Other The Truth William Backus.He takes us to Matthew 18:15 "If your brother sins against you tell him his fault,between you and him alone.If he listens to you , you have gained your brother".

Backus says " Which of Jesus' commandments is more widely disregarded than any other(Among Christians , that is) I mean blatantly disregarded, overlooked , and violated....If another person does something wrong , go tell him his fault.
Instead , most people try other ,less constructive remedies for a brother's trespass.Take the Rev.Yack More, for instance.
Whenhe knows somebody has done wrong , he preachers against evil.It's easier for him than going and telling his brother-alone.

Then there's Brother Gab Fest .He raises a fuss in the conregational meeting about the dark doings in the church, all the while "not mentioning any names".
But everybody knows whom he means .He sees to that.

Everybody knows Sister Suzy Tellall .She reads Jesus' words as if they say"Go and tell someone else between you and her alone.And tell her not to tell anyone."
So no matter where you go you will find these quirks which we all have generally.Christ gives us the remedy it's easier said than done I must admit myself,but if we all learn to be more truthfull in a loving way we could save a lot of petrol on Church Hopping Costs.As Rich Warren says their is no such thing as a Perfect Church because those who go their arn't perfect.Being frank without being big deal or rude is not that easy though ,and accepting criticim neither on the recieving end.

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

I believe its also got a lot to do with not have the courage to confront someone directly with the truth when you feel or sense a disagreement .Not that I am so bright but Im busy reading a book called Telling Each Other The Truth William Backus.He takes us to Matthew 18:15 "If your brother sins against you tell him his fault,between you and him alone.If he listens to you , you have gained your brother".

Backus says " Which of Jesus' commandments is more widely disregarded than any other(Among Christians , that is) I mean blatantly disregarded, overlooked , and violated....If another person does something wrong , go tell him his fault.
Instead , most people try other ,less constructive remedies for a brother's trespass.Take the Rev.Yack More, for instance.
Whenhe knows somebody has done wrong , he preachers against evil.It's easier for him than going and telling his brother-alone.

Then there's Brother Gab Fest .He raises a fuss in the conregational meeting about the dark doings in the church, all the while "not mentioning any names".
But everybody knows whom he means .He sees to that.

Everybody knows Sister Suzy Tellall .She reads Jesus' words as if they say"Go and tell someone else between yo and her alone.And tell her not to tell anyone."
So no matter where you go you will find these quirks which we all have generally.Christ gives us the remedy it's easier said than done I must admit myself,but if we all learn to be more truthfull in a loving way we could save a lot of petrol on Church Hopping Costs.As Rich Warren says their is no such thing as a Perfect Church because those who go their arn't perfect.Being frank without being big deal or rude is not that easy though ,and accepting criticim neither on the recieving end.

Yes, I believe you a quite right. Americans seem to have an issue with confronting people. We would rather avoid an issue or just leave the church and go somewhere else. We should confront evil in a loving way. That is Biblical.

 

[Tony Hyman]

I dont think one can narrow it down to any nationality or culture Sandy ,I think the onus rests on all us brothers and sisters in Christ internationally who earnestly seek to follow God's will according to the Bible ,without trying user friendly positive confession hype, misbelieving that we are conforming to Christs' instructions under Matthew 28:20 "and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." Notice Christ means everything not just the nicey how are you doing?just smile and wave boys stuff, but also the truths which hurt most of the time; and which keep us all cooking as a family.

 

[Gary]

As Rich Warren says their is no such thing as a Perfect Church because those who go their arn't perfect.

I personally will not accept anything less than perfect where the Word of God is concerned.

Continuous acception of the little lies conditions the individual to be unresponsive to the big ones. One of these days the Big Lie is going to make his appearance and the lack of concern for the little lies will cause many to accept him as one of their own.
.

 

[Eugene]

Deborah13 Sandy Zalecki
I’ve found a quick way to get in the general vicinity of something scriptural I’m looking for is to use Google- In this case “younger women to learn from older women in bible” I’m not sure this is what you were thinking of Deborah.

Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
Titus 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children.

 

[Deborah13]

Deborah13 Sandy Zalecki
I’ve found a quick way to get in the general vicinity of something scriptural I’m looking for is to use Google- In this case “younger women to learn from older women in bible” I’m not sure this is what you were thinking of Deborah.

Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
Titus 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children.

I think that may be part of the one I was thinking of. A good one never the less.
Thanks Eugene.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

After 2 1/2 years, I chose to leave my church.
They had absolutely no Bible study and taught nearly nothing from the Bible from the pulpit.
They were steeped in Word of Faith movement.
I tried to do a Bible study.
I tried to explain things that were wrong.
I got tired of the garbage (no exaggeration here) coming from the pulpit.
When I chose to move on, I was verbally attacked by the pastor and lead elder.
I couldn't get away from them quick enough.
Oddly enough, the church was not this way when I first attended it.

 

[Deborah13]

After 2 1/2 years, I chose to leave my church.
They had absolutely no Bible study and taught nearly nothing from the Bible from the pulpit.
They were steeped in Word of Faith movement.
I tried to do a Bible study.
I tried to explain things that were wrong.
I got tired of the garbage (no exaggeration here) coming from the pulpit.
When I chose to move on, I was verbally attacked by the pastor and lead elder.
I couldn't get away from them quick enough.
Oddly enough, the church was not this way when I first attended it.

Are you talking about sometime in the past, or now? I thought you really liked your church, I hope you are not church-less.

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

After 2 1/2 years, I chose to leave my church.
They had absolutely no Bible study and taught nearly nothing from the Bible from the pulpit.
They were steeped in Word of Faith movement.
I tried to do a Bible study.
I tried to explain things that were wrong.
I got tired of the garbage (no exaggeration here) coming from the pulpit.
When I chose to move on, I was verbally attacked by the pastor and lead elder.
I couldn't get away from them quick enough.
Oddly enough, the church was not this way when I first attended it.

Been there, done that. It is best to leave and find a church that is better suited. If the pastor is going to verbally attack you, that's not right.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Are you talking about sometime in the past, or now? I thought you really liked your church, I hope you are not church-less.

It's been a year.
My new one is great.

 

[Deborah13]

It's been a year.
My new one is great.

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

It's been a year.
My new one is great.

So happy you found a great church!!