Church = Israel?

[John the Baptist]

Yes but in the physical sense this is true. But we are not talking physical now we are talking spiritual. We are all in Christ and Christ is the seed of Abraham and only in Christ are we made Israel.
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Hi, John here. Are you sure about that remark? '[we] are talking spiritual'? :wink:

There are two class of folks seen here in today population. Read it in
1 John 4:5-6

 

[ddubsolo85]

@ Merry

Merry:
Quote:

So if the seed of Abraham isn't Israel - then who is he?

Think about it for a second. If Christ were Israel, then only Israel would be saved. So who is He? Who is the seed of Abraham?

Christ is the seed of Abraham and yes only Israel will be saved.

Paul disagrees withyou;

Gal 3:8

And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen (GENTILES!!!) through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Merry:

We are engrafted onto the vine who is Christ through adoption.

WE? As in Gentiles? That's correct! Gentiles are saved just as Israel is saved.

We are now joint heirs with Christ who is Israel -

-Christ is Israel? What scripture? Out of Israel? OK. Is Israel? NO. Who is Jacob? Israel. Is Jesus Jacob? NO.

...thus making us spiritual Israel through adoption and yes ONLY ISRAEL will be saved because Israel is in Christ.

And Paul is really Elijah. And Reverend Moon is really David. See how ridiculous that sounds? There is nothing biblical that backs that up. It's the same with what you're saying. You have no biblical basis for what you're saying. You're creating your own religion. That's fine if that's what you want to do, but please don't say it's what God is saying through the Bible.

Quote:
What you have to grasp is the fact that Christ is Savior to all, both Jew and Gentile. Being from Abraham DOES NOT make one Jewish. Abraham is the father of many nations, including Gentiles. The promise was made to Abraham that through him all nations would be blessed. That would be the promise of salvation to GENTILES from the OT. Gentiles don't have to be Jews to be in Christ. Read Gal 3 with that in mind.

Yes but in the physical sense this is true. But we are not talking physical now we are talking spiritual. We are all in Christ and Christ is the seed of Abraham and only in Christ are we made Israel.

Fine. Which scripture says that Gentiles become spiritual Israel? On a subject of this importance, I'm sure there's a scripture that says so plainly. And I'm sure there are many scriptures to validate it, line upon line, precept upon precept. So... where are these scriptures?

God Bless!

 

[John the Baptist]

[Quote:] "Fine. Which scripture says that Gentiles become spiritual Israel? On a subject of this importance, I'm sure there's a scripture that says so plainly. And I'm sure there are many scriptures to validate it, line upon line, precept upon precept. So... where are these scriptures?"

Seems that if it is as you say, that you need to supply the scriptures that say plainly that you are right & God is wrong? ---Elijah

 

[ddubsolo85]

@ J the B

Seems that if it is as you say, that you need to supply the scriptures that say plainly that you are right & God is wrong? ---Elijah

Showing what, that Gentiles are saved as Gentiles? I just listed it. But here it is again;

Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen (GENTILES) through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.


Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Here you have Paul saying that Gentiles are saved as Gentiles AFTER Pentecost.

Point proven.

God Bless!

 

[John the Baptist]

[quote="John the Baptist [Quote:] "Fine. Which scripture says that Gentiles become spiritual Israel? On a subject of this importance, I'm sure there's a scripture that says so plainly. And I'm sure there are many scriptures to validate it, line upon line, precept upon precept. So... where are these scriptures?"

Seems that if it is as you say, that you need to supply the scriptures that say plainly that you are right & God is wrong? ---Elijah [/quote]

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ddubsolo85 wrote:
@ J the B

Quote:
Seems that if it is as you say, that you need to supply the scriptures that say plainly that you are right & God is wrong? ---Elijah


Showing what, that Gentiles are saved as Gentiles? I just listed it. But here it is again;

*********
John here again:
Hay, come on, read your stuff again! Boy, you sure do read & reply Born Again huh? See 2 Corinthians 4:2 Yes, I agree, you sure proved a point!
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Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen (GENTILES) through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.


Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Here you have Paul saying that Gentiles are saved as Gentiles AFTER Pentecost.

Point proven.

God Bless!


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[ddubsolo85]

@ John the Baptist

Merry:

Yes but in the physical sense this is true. But we are not talking physical now we are talking spiritual. We are all in Christ and Christ is the seed of Abraham and only in Christ are we made Israel.

This is a serious problem for your position. Being the seed of Abraham DOES NOT make you Israel. Israel is from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Being of Abraham has nothing to do with being Israel. You are claiming to be Israel, and there is no biblical support for it. You said, "we are made Israel". Well, where does the Bible say that? Where does the Bible say we are Israel? It NEVER says that. We don't qualify to be Israel, nor do we need to be Israel. We have Christ without being Israel. We need no more that Christ. Do you want more than Christ?
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Hi, John here. Are you sure about that remark? '[we] are talking spiritual'?

There are two class of folks seen here in today population. Read it in
1 John 4:5-6

John, Yes I see that there are two classes here; the saved and the unsaved. Within the unsaved, you have Jews and Gentiles. Within the saved, you have Jews and Gentiles. I know in Christ we are one, but there is nothing that says everyone becomes Jews. That's what scripture says.

You are saying that amongst the saved there is only 'spiritual Israel'. I'm asking you to support your position with some scripture. Up to this point, you haven't done so. As a matter of fact, you haven't even shown in the Bible where there is such a thng as a 'spiritual Israel'. Is that even in the Bible? You haven't shown a scripture which says that Gentiles become Jews, even in a spiritual sense. With this 'spiritual Israel at the center of your argument, shouldn't there be some supporting scripture? Why haven't you listed any?



If there is no biblical support for this, then why do you believe it?

God Bless!