Common Figure of Speech/Colloquial Language?

[rstrats]

The Messiah said that He would be three days and three nights in the "heart of the earth".

There are some who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

And of those, there are some who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the moment when His spirit left His body).

However, a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection allows for only 2 nights to be involved.

To account for the lack of a 3rd night, there may be some of those mentioned above who try to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language.

I'm simply curious if anyone who may fall in the above group of believers might provide examples to support the belief of commonality; i.e., instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have occurred. That is the only issue with which this queston is concerned.

 

[Who Me]

Take a hard look at the rein of the kings of Israel and you'll discover they ruled while there Father was still king.
This is accounted for by the Hebrew custom of count part of a year as a whole year.
This same practise occurs in the time Jesus was in the tomb. The part of the third day is counted as a whole day.

 

[rstrats]

Take a hard look at the rein of the kings of Israel and you'll discover they ruled while there Father was still king.
This is accounted for by the Hebrew custom of count part of a year as a whole year.
This same practise occurs in the time Jesus was in the tomb. The part of the third day is counted as a whole day.

That would be an issue for a different topic.

 

[Who Me]

That would be an issue for a different topic.

No it is answering your post explaining why the biblesays Jesus was in the tomb for three days.

 

[Vinny37]

Please excuse a quote on this from Revisiting the Pilgrim’s Progress (Hakes, 2021).

[Did Bunyan think that Jesus died on a Wednesday? He ‘buried’ his pilgrims in Doubting Castle on a Wednesday, and ‘resurrected’ them on a Sunday morning. I have adjusted the chronology, to fit what I suspect Bunyan linked to Jesus’ death/‌resurrection, to majority opinion.

Briefly, it seems to me that all four Gospels fully agree (Norval Geldenhuys) as to Jesus having partaken on Thursday evening (Nisan 15), of the Passover Lambs (slain Thursday afternoon, Nisan 14)—days ended/began at sunset. On Friday afternoon, his body was entombed (Nisan 15), remaining over the special Sabbath (Nisan 16), and the early part of Sunday morning (Nisan 17). All in all, perhaps 40 hours. Hence it was on the ‘third day’, that he arose the victor from the dark domain.

In rabbinical talk, a daytime and a nighttime made an onah, and even a part-onah could be treated as a whole-onah. (We use ‘day’ similarly.) “Three days and three nights”, can range from three full 24-hour days, to two part-days (eg before dark, Nisan 15; before dawn, Nisan 17) sandwiching a full day (Nisan 16).

Yes, the expression, “three days and three nights”, had wiggle room for interpretation, and could poetically double for ‘three days’ (two night times). We might say that “after three days” could sometimes mean “on the third day” (2 Chr.10:5,12), as well as sometimes mean, on the fourth: imprecision, wiggle. But even taking a part-onah to be spoken of as seemingly a full onah, we can see how part of Nisan 17 could end the “three days/‌nights”, and also allow for a further event—resurrection—after/‌on that same third day.

So, 4 hours on Nisan 15, 24 on Nisan 16, and 12 on Nisan 17, could equal “three days”. Jesus rose on Nisan 17 (Sunday morning), after ‘resting’ on two nights, in full or in part. Mt.12:40 allows that wiggle. Arguably a Wednesday crucifixion theory runs against resurrection “on the third day”, though some claim a Sabbath resurrection—or a Thursday crucifixion.]

 

[rstrats]

Please excuse a quote on this from Revisiting the Pilgrim’s Progress (Hakes, 2021).

[Did Bunyan think that Jesus died on a Wednesday? He ‘buried’ his pilgrims in Doubting Castle on a Wednesday, and ‘resurrected’ them on a Sunday morning. I have adjusted the chronology, to fit what I suspect Bunyan linked to Jesus’ death/‌resurrection, to majority opinion.

Briefly, it seems to me that all four Gospels fully agree (Norval Geldenhuys) as to Jesus having partaken on Thursday evening (Nisan 15), of the Passover Lambs (slain Thursday afternoon, Nisan 14)—days ended/began at sunset. On Friday afternoon, his body was entombed (Nisan 15), remaining over the special Sabbath (Nisan 16), and the early part of Sunday morning (Nisan 17). All in all, perhaps 40 hours. Hence it was on the ‘third day’, that he arose the victor from the dark domain.

In rabbinical talk, a daytime and a nighttime made an onah, and even a part-onah could be treated as a whole-onah. (We use ‘day’ similarly.) “Three days and three nights”, can range from three full 24-hour days, to two part-days (eg before dark, Nisan 15; before dawn, Nisan 17) sandwiching a full day (Nisan 16).

Yes, the expression, “three days and three nights”, had wiggle room for interpretation, and could poetically double for ‘three days’ (two night times). We might say that “after three days” could sometimes mean “on the third day” (2 Chr.10:5,12), as well as sometimes mean, on the fourth: imprecision, wiggle. But even taking a part-onah to be spoken of as seemingly a full onah, we can see how part of Nisan 17 could end the “three days/‌nights”, and also allow for a further event—resurrection—after/‌on that same third day.

So, 4 hours on Nisan 15, 24 on Nisan 16, and 12 on Nisan 17, could equal “three days”. Jesus rose on Nisan 17 (Sunday morning), after ‘resting’ on two nights, in full or in part. Mt.12:40 allows that wiggle. Arguably a Wednesday crucifixion theory runs against resurrection “on the third day”, though some claim a Sabbath resurrection—or a Thursday crucifixion.]

Your comments deal with issues for a different topic. Perhaps you might start one.

 

[rstrats]

No it is answering your post explaining why the biblesays Jesus was in the tomb for three days.

That is not the question of this topic.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

Take a hard look at the rein of the kings of Israel and you'll discover they ruled while there Father was still king.

Perfectly said. God is eternally reigning over everything even though His will governs things that others control like governments and leaders.

 

[rstrats]

Perfectly said. God is eternally reigning over everything even though His will governs things that others control like governments and leaders.

Are you a believer in a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection?

 

[Vinny37]

Your comments deal with issues for a different topic. Perhaps you might start one.

I've been away on hols, and have just returned to this forum. I sought to reply to your post, which covers literal speech vs colloquial language, and was linked to the talk about "3 days" - literal or colloquial/common. IMO I pasted on-topic, viz defending the argument that Jesus was crucified on our Friday (Nisan 15) and rose on our Sunday morning, in line with colloquial language (ie, a 'day' was commonly a flexible term covering even a part of a literal day).

 

[LeviR]

Three days and three nights are like yesterday when it is past. Like a watch in the night.

 

[rstrats]

IMO I pasted on-topic, viz defending the argument that Jesus was crucified on our Friday (Nisan 15) and rose on our Sunday morning, in line with colloquial language (ie, a 'day' was commonly a flexible term covering even a part of a literal day).

The OP is not asking for a defense of a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection. Again, the only concern of the topic is to find examples which show that it was common to say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have occurred.

 

[rstrats]

Three days and three nights are like yesterday when it is past. Like a watch in the night.

That would be an issue for a different topic.

 

[Vinny37]

The OP is not asking for a defense of a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection. Again, the only concern of the topic is to find examples which show that it was common to say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have occurred.

I think the OP was a little misleading, but still...

 

[miamited]

Hi rstrats

It seems that no one is reading your words. The answers being given are dealing with the word 'day', while your question is concerning the word 'night'.

The only way that three nights can be accounted, if Jesus rose on what we know as Sunday morning, the first day of the week, would be if the crucifixion was on Thursday of the previous week. Personally, I think this argument has merit since John makes mention of the Sabbath for which the Jews were wanting Jesus off the cross is described as a 'special' Sabbath. For me, this whole issue of time being established by the regular seventh day Sabbath of every week since the Jews left Egypt, would not be the Sabbath that John is speaking of as a 'special' Sabbath.

There are a number of Sabbaths assigned around the Holy Days of festivals and celebrations that God required of Israel. The beginning of the Passover was a Sabbath and the last day of Pesach was a Sabbath. I quote from jtsa.edu:

In the six weeks preceding Pesah during the months of Adar and Nisan, there occur four special Sabbaths called Sheqalim, Zakhor, Parah, and Shabbat Hahodesh. In addition, the Sabbath immediately preceding Pesah is called Shabbat Hagadol.

Notice that in this description they are still referred to as 'special' Sabbaths.

So, I think it very possible that the crucifixion was held on Thursday afternoon. Therefore, Jesus' body was in the tomb Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. He was also in the tomb Thursday, Friday and Saturday. If Jesus was resurrected before daybreak on Sunday, then he wasn't actually in the tomb on Sunday during the day. And by Jesus defining the time as three 'days' and three 'nights', his being entombed sometime during the 'day' period of Thursday, then all day Friday and Saturday better fits the bill for the three 'days'. Then resting in the tomb Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights also fulfills the three 'nights'.

Somehow, and I really don't know why, we gentile believers seem to think that the word Sabbath only applies to the seventh day Sabbath commanded by God to be honored every week of their entire lives. I'm not so sure that's the case and by John's use of the word 'special' in his description of the coming Sabbath, I'm prretty confident that the Scriptures aren't referring to the normal and regular seventh day Sabbath here.

However, in the realm of the disputable, I find this a perfectly good case of something that our complete knowledge of really doesn't matter. I trust that Jesus said that he would be in the grave for three days and three nights. I trust that however that works out, Jesus was in the tomb for three days and three nights. God's testimony cannot lie. I don't think Jesus can either.

 

[rstrats]

Hi rstrats

The only way that three nights can be accounted, if Jesus rose on what we know as Sunday morning, the first day of the week, would be if the crucifixion was on Thursday of the previous week.

Agreed. But that's an issue for a different topic.

 

[rstrats]

Perhaps someone new looking in may know of examples.

 

[Indentured Servant]

The Messiah said that He would be three days and three nights in the "heart of the earth".

There are some who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

And of those, there are some who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the moment when His spirit left His body).

However, a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection allows for only 2 nights to be involved.

To account for the lack of a 3rd night, there may be some of those mentioned above who try to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language.

I'm simply curious if anyone who may fall in the above group of believers might provide examples to support the belief of commonality; i.e., instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have occurred. That is the only issue with which this queston is concerned.

There is a sabbath during the Passover, which Jesus celebrated prior to the 7th day sabbath. This has caused great confusion and debate for people who don't understand this.

Incorrect translations in scripture, that reflect the phrase, "on the first day of the week," actually say, "on one sabbath," referring the Passover Sabbath. In those verses, the word Sabbath appears in the Greek, but is rendered "week." Also, the Greek words for "first day" does not appear in the Greek, but is used to support the incorrect idea that Jesus changed the seventh day sabbath to the first day sabbath.

Modern theologians and teachers have done a great disservice to Christianity by asserting that "any portion of a day in Hebrew mindset still equals a day." No such nuance exists in the Hebrew mindset.

Jesus was crucified on Wednesday and rose on the morning of the weekly sabbath, (what we call Saturday.)

There is clear documentation that the Catholic Church was anti-semetic and intentionally changed the "sabbath" to Sunday to emphasize their separation from the Jews who maintained the weekly sabbath.

That being said, as non-jewish Christians, our Sabbath is in Christ, not on a specific day of the week.

If the "sign of Jonah" was the shadow of this, then we should also teach that Jonah was in the big fish for only 36 hours, not three days and three nights. (Which is ludicrous to consider.)

There was a "Hebrew mindset" that believed a person's Spirit separated from the body after three days/nights. The fact that Jesus could rise after that was an extraordinary feat, because they would have believed he did not actually die. 72 hours of death was their confirmation that a person had really died.

 

[rstrats]

Indentured Servant,​

Your comments deal with issues for a different topic. Perhaps you might start one.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

The Messiah said that He would be three days and three nights in the "heart of the earth".

There are some who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

And of those, there are some who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the moment when His spirit left His body).

However, a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection allows for only 2 nights to be involved.

To account for the lack of a 3rd night, there may be some of those mentioned above who try to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language.

I'm simply curious if anyone who may fall in the above group of believers might provide examples to support the belief of commonality; i.e., instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have occurred. That is the only issue with which this queston is concerned.

When we look at the Jewish literature at that time, it becomes obvious that a part of the day was reckoned as all of that same day. Thus, it was thought that two parts of a day and a whole day were the same as three days, euphemistically referred to as three days and three nights.