Commonly Referred to as Separate or Partial Rapture

[reba]

What a sad view of the Lord Jesus Christ.... He loves us both....

 

[JLB]

What a sad view of the Lord Jesus Christ.... He loves us both....

Why is this sad?

Could you explain why.


JLB

 

[reba]

I have tried before and it doesn't make sense to you. I will say i see the Church as victorious ... Having said a ton of times 2000 years ago there was only a couple dozen Christians how many today?
Not meaning to put words in your mouth but i dont know how else to say this... When i read the basic dispensational thoughts the Cross has little bearing yall are looking to a second coming... Just as the Jewish leaders wer looking for a King to rescue them and rule the earth so does so much of the Church today.
He tells us His Kingdom is not of this world
Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
The Bible point blank say the Kingdom of is.
Rom_14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

No use pretending we are by "spiritualizing" a bunch of scriptures.

OK dont "spiritualize" scripture.... Seems to me these verses that are quoted do so, not my me but by Him

I remember when my hope was in His soon return.... My thinking was not far from yours ... I still wait His return... but see what i will term the Glory of the Cross. Him Building His body
Then this verse spoke to me
Col_1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

It is a difference not like good or bad just different.... like strawberry or raspberry .. In my knowledge of Dispensationalism the Cross was treated as an after thought.. as in If the Jewish leaders had accepted Him as King there would have been no need for the Cross. I kinda have the view The Cross is the central point of God's time.

I ask you read the feeling or meaning of these few words i am not a good writer. Please dont be offended i mean nothing in what i say as an offense...You can think i am a kook
You may not think i have answered. If that is the case ask again or a bit different...

 

[Sinthesis]

.. In my knowledge of Dispensationalism the Cross was treated as an after thought.. as in If the Jewish leaders had accepted Him as King there would have been no need for the Cross. I kinda have the view The Cross is the central point of God's time.

I agree with you that our future holds Jesus' Church victorious in Him over the entire world, not cowering from an antichrist waiting for Jesus to miraculously save it. We are already saved! Yet if what you say is true about dispensationalism believing the Cross was plan 'b', then Jesus taught against dispensationalism specifically.

Mat 16:21

From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Of course Jesus' followers were so caught up in what they expected the Messiah to do for them, that they completely missed the real worldly meaning of Jesus' words. Had they understood Him they would have gathered expectantly on the third day at the tomb to welcome Him back. I'm afraid that many Christians choose to condemn Jews for rejecting Christ, when that is what they were chosen for, and it is hubris to believe we would have done any better prior to His resurrection.

 

[reba]

Full Definition of HUBRIS
: exaggerated pride or self-confidence
— hu·bris·tic adjective


Yup totally agree

 

[JLB]

I agree with you that our future holds Jesus' Church victorious in Him over the entire world, not cowering from an antichrist waiting for Jesus to miraculously save it. We are already saved! Yet if what you say is true about dispensationalism believing the Cross was plan 'b', then Jesus taught against dispensationalism specifically.

Mat 16:21

From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Of course Jesus' followers were so caught up in what they expected the Messiah to do for them, that they completely missed the real worldly meaning of Jesus' words. Had they understood Him they would have gathered expectantly on the third day at the tomb to welcome Him back. I'm afraid that many Christians choose to condemn Jews for rejecting Christ, when that is what they were chosen for, and it is hubris to believe we would have done any better prior to His resurrection.

We are already saved!

You will in fact be saved in reality, when He returns and you here these words - 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:31-34

Until then you have faith that you are saved.

The reality of your faith that you are hoping for is the salvation of your soul.

... receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

Paul says it this way -

For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees?

23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:23-25

In other words if you have faith in God for salvation, then you do not have salvation yet, you have faith.

Until then, you are hoping for salvation.

The reality of salvation will occur when Jesus returns.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


Again, until you yourself hears these words -

'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

You have faith in God for salvation.

That is to say, you have the substance of your hope in salvation.

If you have faith, then you in fact don't posses the reality of what you are hoping for.


May God bless you, and strengthen you in all faith and confidence to the very end.


JLB

 

[reba]

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

 

[Deborah13]

You will in fact be saved in reality, when He returns and you here these words - 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:31-34

Until then you have faith that you are saved.

The reality of your faith that you are hoping for is the salvation of your soul.

... receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

Paul says it this way -

For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees?

23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:23-25

In other words if you have faith in God for salvation, then you do not have salvation yet, you have faith.

Until then, you are hoping for salvation.

The reality of salvation will occur when Jesus returns.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


Again, until you yourself hears these words -

'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

You have faith in God for salvation.

That is to say, you have the substance of your hope in salvation.

If you have faith, then you in fact don't posses the reality of what you are hoping for.


May God bless you, and strengthen you in all faith and confidence to the very end.


JLB

Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

G1680 = elpis =
Fromἔλπω elpō which is a primary word (to anticipate, usually with pleasure); expectation (abstract or concrete) or confidence: - faith, hope.

This is not a hope with a ?? at the end or a maybe. Not like saying 'well, I hope so.'

NOT that that is what you are saying, just expounding, a little.

 

[JLB]

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

If you have faith in God for salvation, then you in fact are hoping for that salvation to be a reality, when he comes.


JLB

 

[reba]

Again the Cross... Salvation is by the Blood of the Lamb the Cross not His second coming.

 

[JLB]

Again the Cross... Salvation is by the Blood of the Lamb the Cross not His second coming.

Salvation is by faith in the blood of Jesus.

If you continue in this faith, you will receive the end of your faith, the salvation of your soul.

The reality of salvation will be when you in fact are resurrected from the dead, and receive an immortal body that will never die.

23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:23

Our faith begins at the cross, it ends with the reality of what we are hoping for, the salvation of our souls, when He returns to Gather His people at the resurrection of the dead.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

and again -

receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

If you still have faith in God for salvation, then you do not yet have the reality of that salvation you are hoping for.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for.


Now you know why it overthrows the faith of some to say the resurrection is past.


JLB

 

[reba]

I do not say the resurrection is past .. You have your view i have mine...

Gal_6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.