Commonly Referred to as Separate or Partial Rapture

[JLB]

I do believe that 1 Cor 15:20 is one of the most miss-understood verses in the non-Jewish Christian community. that being said because of the lack of understanding of the Laws of Harvest, and the choice of wording used in translating the Greek word Ginomai in 1 Cor 15:20. The two firstfruit loaves are prepared with Leaven (yeast), We know Christ is the Un-leavened bread ... and he is the Lamb offered with the two loaves in the wave offering performed by the High Priest in the offering of the firstfruits to God fifty days after the beginning of harvest,(mistakenly referred to as firstfruits) that is the day Our Lord was raised, the day the sheaf of firstfruits (called the Omer, the amount of weight of the first cut of ripe Barley) is waived before God. Fifty days after Christ was raised is the firstfruits offered to God.
Paul in the 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians is teaching the assurance of the resurrection, the firstfruits is a resurrection event of those chosen by God, just as ingathering (Tabernacles) is also, and Christ has become (Ginomai) both of these events... and Paul goes on to confirm the order of the resurrection... Christ, the firstfruits, then those who are his at his coming (Ingathering) ........ Christ did not become (as to imply-translated into- the leavened bread of firstfruits)...
The dead shall rise FIRST then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up ! at his appearing.
http://www.resurrectiontruth.com/

21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21

Jesus became sin, for us.

Jesus is the First Fruits offering.

Then afterward those who are His are gathered at The Harvest.

One Harvest at the end of the age.

One first fruits offering, Jesus and jesus alone.

That is what the scriptures teach.

There was not two first fruits offerings.

Jesus is the first fruits offering.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 1 Corinthians 15:23

They that are Christ's means just what it says.

All who are Christ's will be gathered at His Coming.

His Coming is at the end of the age.

His Coming is after the tribulation.


JLB

 

[TCash]

there are two loaves of firstfruits that are waved before God being joined together hand to hand with the choice parts of a sinless sacrificed lamb, one lamb for each loaf of firstfruit bread, Christ raised the firstfruits of them that slept according to the harvest Laws for the scriptures cannot be broken as Paul confirms, and revelations confirms there is yet one more offering of firstfruits before the tribulation, 144,000 chosen men of Israel, thus...two loaves of firstfruit bread equals two offerings of firstfruits to God... the first resurrection of saints of the old testament is one loaf, the 144,000 of revelation is the second loaf, thus fulfilling firstfruits, ... God is not the author of confusion.
Salvation belongs to the Jew first, then the Greek....... the harvest Laws foretell the harvest of the earth, to rightly divide the word of truth one needs a very good detailed understanding of the Law, it is the foundation and the words that will be fulfilled unto the end.
Revelations confirms the harvest laws, foretells the 144,000 men of Israel firstfruits that are before the throne of God before the tribulation begins, details the man child born from the woman taken up to the throne of God before the tribulation, John hears the number of firstfruits sealed 1444,000 then is shown the ingathering ...all in white robes with palms in their hands, for those that know the Law this is the celebration of Ingathering.
He was made sin because he was made flesh to receive our sins upon him, also exampled in the law of the scape Goat. but through his suffering for this cause he was perfected, of which means there was yet a perfecting waiting for the Son of God to be accomplished .... Amazing the manifold wisdom of God....
http://www.resurrectiontruth.com/

 

[JLB]

Christ raised the firstfruits of them that slept according to the harvest Laws for the scriptures cannot be broken as Paul confirms,

and revelations confirms there is yet one more offering of firstfruits before the tribulation,

Please list the scriptures that validate your statements above.


JLB

 

[JLB]

This scripture can not be broken -

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 1 Corinthians 15:20


This scripture can not be broken -


29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31


Unless you have a clear and straightforward scripture that states there are others beside's Jesus that are the first fruits from the dead, then "your" interpretation of what the two loaves mean is not correct.

Unless you have a scripture that plainly says Jesus is Coming BEFORE the Tribulation to Gather His people, like Matthew 24:31 clearly states, then your "understanding" needs to be realigned to what the truth of the scriptures state.


JLB

 

[TCash]

Unless you have a clear and straightforward scripture that states there are others beside's Jesus that are the first fruits from the dead, then "your" interpretation of what the two loaves mean is not correct.

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Christ is coming after the tribulation to gather his elect, the dead in Christ shall rise first then those who are alive, all this at his appearing. the furnace is for the Gold, we shall be purified tried made white and ready to meet our Lord through the fires of purification.
but it still does not change the laws of harvest that God has long established and confirmed in word and deed.

These firstfruits are called "without fault" they do not need to be tried
these in matt 27:52-53 were resurrected before Christ coming to gather his elect, and these did not hear the gospel
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
these saints are the firstfruits of the first covenant, that is why they are raised before the ingathering at his appearing.
Christ became this resurrection of them that slept... I.E the firstfruits of them that slept.
and the order of the resurrection is Christ, then the firstfruits, then all those that are his at his coming.
this is not a pre-tribulation rapture teaching .... this is the harvest plan being fulfilled as it is given in the Laws of harvest, and being demonstrated through the resurrection of those saints already raised shortly after Christ was raised, and there being yet one more group of men that are clearly identified as the the firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, and these are described as being redeemed from the earth and before the throne of God before the angels declare
warnings concerning the mark of the beast. the man child being born into heaven enrages Lucifer to war with the angels, he is cast out of heaven and persecutes the woman.. the man child is the birth of the firstfruits into heaven ...then the tribulation shortly begins.
We have only a small amount of the apostles teachings, with that being translated from Greek to English, there are many verses that require in-depth interlinear study. but, all scripture must harmonize, and when Christ is telling the Jews in Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. this also must harmonize... for there is a small amount of men that will escape because they are worthy to be called firstfruits unto God and the Lamb

 

[Destructus86]

Revelation 3:10 has been horribly mistranslated.
The word "keep" in the original greek is "tereo" which means to attend carefully, take care of, to guard. As for "The whole world" The word used for world is oikoumenē (or ecumene) which is always used to refer to the known or in this case Roman world. (the same word is used when speaking of the "world wide" census done by the Roman empire)

 

[JLB]

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Christ is coming after the tribulation to gather his elect, the dead in Christ shall rise first then those who are alive, all this at his appearing. the furnace is for the Gold, we shall be purified tried made white and ready to meet our Lord through the fires of purification.
but it still does not change the laws of harvest that God has long established and confirmed in word and deed.

These firstfruits are called "without fault" they do not need to be tried
these in matt 27:52-53 were resurrected before Christ coming to gather his elect, and these did not hear the gospel
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
these saints are the firstfruits of the first covenant, that is why they are raised before the ingathering at his appearing.
Christ became this resurrection of them that slept... I.E the firstfruits of them that slept.
and the order of the resurrection is Christ, then the firstfruits, then all those that are his at his coming.
this is not a pre-tribulation rapture teaching .... this is the harvest plan being fulfilled as it is given in the Laws of harvest, and being demonstrated through the resurrection of those saints already raised shortly after Christ was raised, and there being yet one more group of men that are clearly identified as the the firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, and these are described as being redeemed from the earth and before the throne of God before the angels declare
warnings concerning the mark of the beast. the man child being born into heaven enrages Lucifer to war with the angels, he is cast out of heaven and persecutes the woman.. the man child is the birth of the firstfruits into heaven ...then the tribulation shortly begins.
We have only a small amount of the apostles teachings, with that being translated from Greek to English, there are many verses that require in-depth interlinear study. but, all scripture must harmonize, and when Christ is telling the Jews in Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. this also must harmonize... for there is a small amount of men that will escape because they are worthy to be called firstfruits unto God and the Lamb

The Resurrection of the dead takes place when Jesus returns at the end of the age.

These that were raised from out of the heart of the earth, did not receive their immortal bodies like jesus has.

That event will occur when He Comes to Gather all who are in heaven and all who are on earth, at the resurrection of the dead.

26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:26-27

The saints that are in heaven, and the saints that are on earth, will be gathered All together at His coming.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23

Those who are Christ's, is a reference to ALL!

There is only One FirstFruits of the resurrection of the dead, and that is Christ.

The rest of His people will be Resurrected from the dead, when He comes.

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 1 John 3:2

The rapture of the Church takes place AFTER the resurrection!

The Resurrection of the dead, takes place after the Great Tribulation.

The Resurrection takes place when He Comes.


JLB


JLB

 

[Dan00]

Revelation 3.10 says "Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, that hour which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

Who is on the earth before the Tribulation? Both Christians and non-Christians.

Christians can't receive initial salvation by works so 3.10 is referring to those already saved who receive a blessing and other believers lose this reward. It is a conditional statement because it says "Because..." so if "thou keeps the word of my patience" that person will escape not just trial as Christians have always faced but the hour of the trial of the Tribulation itself, and the only way one can be assured of this is by rapture, for many Christians will be martyred during the Tribulation. The Tribulation last seven years. It is the 70th seven in Dan. 9.27, and all Daniel's 69 sevens are 2,520 days each (360 x 7) that pointed to when Christ would be cut off.

Luke 21.36 confirms this condition for Christians, "But watch ye at every season, making supplication, that ye may prevail to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

What is to come to pass to stand before the Son of man? The Tribulation -- Daniel's final seven.

And again in Matt. 24, "Then shall two man be in the field; one is taken, and one is left: two women shall be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left. Watch therefore: for ye know not on what day your Lord cometh."

So the believer is told to watch. If you don't want, there are consequences. It is better to be taken by the Lord than left. If you watch you will be taken. Taken when? Taken before the important events that unfold in the Tribulation as described in the 7 Trumpets of the Tribulation. The 7th Seal opens up the 7 trumpets and the 7th trumpet pours out the 7 bowls of wrath like a lock tumbler combination to understanding Revelation.

When will this take place? Immediately after the 3 events in Rev. 6.12: "And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the whole moon became as blood." Then that first rapture according to readiness takes place "before the throne" (7.9) before the 1st trumpet is blown in 8.7.

The great earthquake already happened. 320,000 died in Haiti in 2010 and the 4th greatest earthquake recorded in human history by magnitude was in Japan 2011. Never in human history have two earthquakes with such impact occurred back to back, year over year. The second item, in order, occurred Nov. 3, 2013 the long H3 Hybrid solar eclipse which is the rarest of all solar eclipses was the 4th since Christ and won't happen again till 2172. There are 4 kinds of solar eclipses, the rarest which is the hybrid occurring about 5% of the time. Of the hybrids there are 3 types in which the H3 is the rarest. And it is a long version which lasts for more than a minute and a half.

The 3rd item is the feast Total Lunar Tetrad 2014/15 which will be the 8th since Christ and doesn't happen again till 2582/83.

I for one am saved and can never lose salvation because the Bible says those who are born-again "they shall never perish" (John 10.28), but I can lose the reward of being raptured before the Tribulation and not be included in the 5 wise virgins to enter the marriage feast of the millennial reign over the nations for 1000 years (Matt. 25.1-13; Rev. 2,26,27, 20.4-6) before the New City and New Earth commence.

So daily I read the word of God and prepare myself that if I meet God's standards, keeping the conduct of Matthew 5-7, that I pray along with Paul that I may be accounted worthy. Paul did not pray to be saved or to be kept saved, for he knew his salvation was assured and had eternal life which could never be lost, but what he did pray for was this reward.

Thank you Jesus.

This is what I know about the timing of the great tribulation. First, this must occur:

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Matt 24:14)


Jesus gave this similar instruction to his disciples:

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." (Mark 16:15)


Paul said it was fulfilled:

"If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister" (Col 1:23)

"For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:" (Col 1:5-6)


This is why Paul was able to write those verses: the term "all the world" in the New Testament meant the Roman Empire:

"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed." (Luke 2:1)

"First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world." (Rom 1:8)

"For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:" (Acts 24:5)

"And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.: (Acts 11:28)


Therefore, we know the prophecy by Jesus in Matthew 24:14 was fulfilled by the time Paul wrote the Epistle to the Colossians, which occurred about mid first century.

Dan

 

[JLB]

This is what I know about the timing of the great tribulation. First, this must occur:

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Matt 24:14)


Jesus gave this similar instruction to his disciples:

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." (Mark 16:15)


Paul said it was fulfilled:

"If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister" (Col 1:23)

"For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:" (Col 1:5-6)


This is why Paul was able to write those verses: the term "all the world" in the New Testament meant the Roman Empire:

"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed." (Luke 2:1)

"First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world." (Rom 1:8)

"For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:" (Acts 24:5)

"And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.: (Acts 11:28)


Therefore, we know the prophecy by Jesus in Matthew 24:14 was fulfilled by the time Paul wrote the Epistle to the Colossians, which occurred about mid first century.

Dan

Not one word concerning the destruction of the city and sanctuary is mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 24 and 25.

Context is ignored by you.

The Gospel is being preached in all the world today, with all the technology we have, and still there are 10's of millions that have not heard it.

Paul said the Gospel is bringing forth fruit. In the process of bring forth fruit.

The Gospel was being sent out to all the parts of the world, that was known to the them in that day.

The Gospel is still being sent out today.


JLB

 

[Dan00]

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
...
These firstfruits are called "without fault" they do not need to be tried

TCash,

Thanks for the information. In the following passage Paul appears to claim that he is one of those without fault:

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself. . . In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ." (Ephesians 1:4-12)

Paul states that he was predestined, holy, without blame, and one of those who first trusted in Christ. It would make sense that Christ would choose as his apostles those who are holy, blameless and at least among the first ones who trusted him. Christ also made them the foundations of the Holy City and the Holy Temple.

For time context of the placement of them as the "foundations," recall that the Holy City, New Jerusalem was in existence while Paul was still alive at the time he wrote Hebrews:

"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant..." (Hebrews 12:22-24)

Note the present-tense use of the words "ye are come," rather than "ye will come."

The next passage identifies the apostles as the foundations of the Holy City:

"And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God. . . And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb . . . And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it." (Rev 21:10,14,22)

This passage identifies them, along with the prophets, as the foundation of the Holy Temple:

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." (Ephesians 2:18-22)

Therefore, I would include the apostles as some of the firstfruits standing on mount Sion in Revelation 14.

Dan

 

[JLB]

TCash,

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Christ is coming after the tribulation to gather his elect, the dead in Christ shall rise first then those who are alive, all this at his appearing. the furnace is for the Gold, we shall be purified tried made white and ready to meet our Lord through the fires of purification.
but it still does not change the laws of harvest that God has long established and confirmed in word and deed.

These firstfruits are called "without fault" they do not need to be tried
these in matt 27:52-53 were resurrected before Christ coming to gather his elect, and these did not hear the gospel
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
these saints are the firstfruits of the first covenant, that is why they are raised before the ingathering at his appearing.
Christ became this resurrection of them that slept... I.E the firstfruits of them that slept.
and the order of the resurrection is Christ, then the firstfruits, then all those that are his at his coming.
this is not a pre-tribulation rapture teaching .... this is the harvest plan being fulfilled as it is given in the Laws of harvest, and being demonstrated through the resurrection of those saints already raised shortly after Christ was raised, and there being yet one more group of men that are clearly identified as the the firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, and these are described as being redeemed from the earth and before the throne of God before the angels declare
warnings concerning the mark of the beast. the man child being born into heaven enrages Lucifer to war with the angels, he is cast out of heaven and persecutes the woman.. the man child is the birth of the firstfruits into heaven ...then the tribulation shortly begins.
We have only a small amount of the apostles teachings, with that being translated from Greek to English, there are many verses that require in-depth interlinear study. but, all scripture must harmonize, and when Christ is telling the Jews in Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. this also must harmonize... for there is a small amount of men that will escape because they are worthy to be called firstfruits unto God and the Lamb

The Law of the harvest?

The first fruits of the resurrection of the dead is Jesus.

That will never change.

Jesus was resurrected from the dead, and received His immortal Human body that will never die.

No one else has been resurrected from the dead, and received their immortal body that will never die, only Jesus, the firstfruits of them that have died.

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 1 Corinthians 15:20

You have tried to take the word "firstfruits", and make it apply to your "law of the Harvest" theory, to mean that every time we see the word "firstfruits" it means Resurrected from the dead.

There are many places in the bible that the word "firstfruits" is used to describe a "first" of something:

Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. Romans 8:23

• Firstfruits of the Spirit.

Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Greet my beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia to Christ. Romans 16:5

• Firstfruits of those who were saved, of the region of Achaia

18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

• The first humans to hear the Gospel of the kingdom directly from Jesus.

Finally your reference -

These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

The firstfruits of of them that are not defiled with women, and are virgins.

This has nothing to do with the Rapture, or the resurrection of the dead.

This is a wild attempt to validate the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine.

Paul makes it crystal clear for us -

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.


Jesus and Jesus alone is the firstfruits of them that sleep.

AFTERWARD, those who are Christ's AT HIS COMING.

Not 7 years before His Coming, AT HIS COMING.


Case Closed.


JLB

 

[Destructus86]

Not one word concerning the destruction of the city and sanctuary is mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 24 and 25.

Context is ignored by you.

The Gospel is being preached in all the world today, with all the technology we have, and still there are 10's of millions that have not heard it.

Paul said the Gospel is bringing forth fruit. In the process of bring forth fruit.

The Gospel was being sent out to all the parts of the world, that was known to the them in that day.

The Gospel is still being sent out today.


JLB

The greek word used for "World" doesn't mean world. It means known world or in this case Roman world. The same greek word is used when describing the Roman Empire's "world"-wide census. Obviously they didn't do a census of the WHOLE WORLD. The Bible makes it clear the census was related to the Roman empire. There is no other meaning to the word. It's a simple greek word to describe the roman world.

No mention of the temple's destruction? Jesus literally just left the temple when he said:
"Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

 

[JLB]

The greek word used for "World" doesn't mean world. It means known world or in this case Roman world. The same greek word is used when describing the Roman Empire's "world"-wide census. Obviously they didn't do a census of the WHOLE WORLD. The Bible makes it clear the census was related to the Roman empire. There is no other meaning to the word. It's a simple greek word to describe the roman world.

No mention of the temple's destruction? Jesus literally just left the temple when he said:
"Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

Jesus was standing in the Temple area when He said those words.

Later when was on the mount if Olives Privatly with His disciples, He began the Olivet Discourse in which there was no mention of the destruction of the city and sanctuary.

The Gospel has not been preached in all the world and the end has not come.

 

[reba]

The Gospel has not been preached in all the world and the end has not come.

Rom_1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

 

[JLB]

Rom_1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Paul was quoting an Old Testament scripture. Psalms 19 -

4 Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their words to the end of the world. In them He has set a tabernacle for the sun, 5 Which is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, And rejoices like a strong man to run its race. Psalms 19:4-5

Paul is declaring what The prophetic word has stated in the past, and is teaching that it is coming to pass.

Paul is not stating that by the time He wrote the letter to the Romans that the Gospel has traveled to the whole world, he was quoting what was already prophesied and applying it to the Gospel Message.

Do you think that the Gospel message had traveled to the whole world when king David wrote the scripture that Paul had quoted. Obviously not, since the Gospel of the kingdom had not yet been preached, but only alluded to in the Psalms, the prophets and the law.

Taking and old testament scripture, that Paul quoted to make a point, and trying to apply it to mean the Gospel of the kingdom has been preached to all the whole world is not rightly dividing Gods word.


JLB

 

[reba]

How about a fulled prophecy?

 

[jasoncran]

How about a fulled prophecy?

when ye shall see Jerusalem surrounder by her enemies knoweth that her destruction is nigh.

 

[JLB]

How about a fulled prophecy?

You know it will be fulfilled when the end Comes.

The End = All rule and authority in the whole world is put down, and the only Rule and Authority is Jesus Christ ruling from Jerusalem.

21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:21-24


Before Jesus ' feet touch down of earth when he Comes from heaven, you will have a resurrected body, and you will be with Him in Jerusalem.

Until then, the end has not come.

If their are still evil rulers and kings ruling on this earth, the end has not come.


JLB

 

[reba]

We disagree JLB but that is OK ....I believe He is King now I believe we reign in life
Rom_5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Our King is the same King we just view Him differently. Most likely we view His kingdom differently also

 

[JLB]

We disagree JLB but that is OK ....I believe He is King now I believe we reign in life
Rom_5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Our King is the same King we just view Him differently. Most likely we view His kingdom differently also

I know you seem to think so.

Jesus Christ reigns from heaven, and will remain there until the time of His return, when He Himself will literally put an end to all rule and authority, and deliver the kingdom og God on earth to God the Father.

God's will is that the earth is to be just as it is in heaven.

The earth is not that way yet, but will be when He returns and removes all the evil lawless rulers from this world, as well as all who have rejected the gospel.

The dead will receive their immortal bodies that will never die, and they will shine like the sun.

This is the description of everlasting righteous.

For then the knowledge of the glory of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters covers the sea.

We are not there yet.

No use pretending we are by "spiritualizing" a bunch of scriptures.


JLB