Confused About Job's Three Friends

[Lalas]

Can those with more Biblical knowledge and/ or theological understanding help me understand why God was angry with Job's three friends, Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar? My basic understanding about his friends is that while they did the "right thing" by showing up at his house to commiserate with Job, they didn't give godly advice and somehow that angered God.

What Eliphaz initially said to Job was something along the lines of "The innocent are not usually punished by God" (Job 4:7) implying that maybe Job wasn't entirely innocent. Bildad, his other friend, said something along the lines of "If you seek God and plead for mercy then God will restore you" (Job 8:5-6) which doesn't sound like a bad advice. The third friend, Zophar, said something along the lines of "You claim to be clean before God's eyes but if God were to reveal all the secrets of wisdom then God could show you your guilt!" (Job 11:4-6) which could be true enough.

And while I commend Job for being "blameless and upright" (Job 1:1) in the eyes of God, who is to say He was perfectly sinless? He couldn't have been perfect as he was only human. The only person we know who was perfect in every way was Jesus, not Job. Who could have ascertained 100% that Job didn't have pride in his heart, per se, for all his initial great success and wealth? Or that he might have had unconfessed sin which he eventually resolved with God but that sin was still present until he confessed it? And it seems he even worried about the possibility of his children cursing God in their hearts so he made burnt offering as a sacrifice to God as a result (Job 1:5).

His friends' advice might not have been perfect, yet they sound very similar to the advice that we Christians give to other believers when we deem they are appropriate to give. Plus, their advice sounds more "solid" to me than what Job's wife said to him when she said "Curse God and die" (Job 2:9). Job immediately rebuked her, of course, but I don't see in the Scripture that God was particularly angry with her when she said that. Or was He?

So what gives? Should we be wary of giving counsel and advice to fellow Christians lest we bring God's wrath or judgment into our lives? Or am I missing something here? What do you think about Job's three friends?

 

[WIP]

Can those with more Biblical knowledge and/ or theological understanding help me understand why God was angry with Job's three friends, Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar? My basic understanding about his friends is that while they did the "right thing" by showing up at his house to commiserate with Job, they didn't give godly advice and somehow that angered God.

What Eliphaz initially said to Job was something along the lines of "The innocent are not usually punished by God" (Job 4:7) implying that maybe Job wasn't entirely innocent. Bildad, his other friend, said something along the lines of "If you seek God and plead for mercy then God will restore you" (Job 8:5-6) which doesn't sound like a bad advice. The third friend, Zophar, said something along the lines of "You claim to be clean before God's eyes but if God were to reveal all the secrets of wisdom then God could show you your guilt!" (Job 11:4-6) which could be true enough.

And while I commend Job for being "blameless and upright" (Job 1:1) in the eyes of God, who is to say He was perfectly sinless? He couldn't have been perfect as he was only human. The only person we know who was perfect in every way was Jesus, not Job. Who could have ascertained 100% that Job didn't have pride in his heart, per se, for all his initial great success and wealth? Or that he might have had unconfessed sin which he eventually resolved with God but that sin was still present until he confessed it? And it seems he even worried about the possibility of his children cursing God in their hearts so he made burnt offering as a sacrifice to God as a result (Job 1:5).

His friends' advice might not have been perfect, yet they sound very similar to the advice that we Christians give to other believers when we deem they are appropriate to give. Plus, their advice sounds more "solid" to me than what Job's wife said to him when she said "Curse God and die" (Job 2:9). Job immediately rebuked her, of course, but I don't see in the Scripture that God was particularly angry with her when she said that. Or was He?

So what gives? Should we be wary of giving counsel and advice to fellow Christians lest we bring God's wrath or judgment into our lives? Or am I missing something here? What do you think about Job's three friends?

I may not be a theologian or scholar and may know less than you but could you provide references where it says God was angry with each of the three friends? I'd like to see that.

 

[gordon777]

Can those with more Biblical knowledge and/ or theological understanding help me understand why God was angry with Job's three friends, Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar? My basic understanding about his friends is that while they did the "right thing" by showing up at his house to commiserate with Job, they didn't give godly advice and somehow that angered God.

All you have to do is take a little more time in your life, to read the book of Job, that you are questioning. Why question to anyone else, when God has already answered everything in that book of Job ?

Think for a moment, if the friends of Job were unable to correctly answer, does that not give an example right away, that our friends/counsellors, those with lots of knowledge as Jobs three friends had, cannot give right answers, as even Job could not do the correct thing in his temptation of the devil, but the answers came from the Lord God only, who answered to Job at the end of the story, and Job kept silent and acknowledged the Lord as right. ( true confession is salvation.)

The first part you are questioning, about God being angry with Jobs three friends, you have missed, that God is angry ( His wrath kindled) with everybody. Because everyone does wrong, and that is the example of Job.

Job had done right, as right as anyone can do, who fears the Lord, who has knowledge of God, just like those in Judaism might do. But the pains, the suffering, Job could not take nor endure, because that kind of suffering only th Son of God Jesus Christ can endure, and did endure, to take away our exaltations, ( Job had promoted himself, instead of humbling himself before the Lord.) and we are humbled with Christ sharing His sufferings, and receiving HIs endurance of the Holy Spirit. ( by belief He endured the cross and died and rose again.)




Job 32:2 Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.

Job 32:3 Also against his three friends was his wrath kindled, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.

Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.





Even the example of what Job receives from the Lord, teaches how that way, ( of law) was how men used to believe, that when they receive of the Lord, they are gaining. But the new revealed way of following Christ, is the opposite to that, to no longer count i gain, now you lose all to receive the excellency of Jesus Christ our Lord, to know Him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death.



Job 42:10 And the Lord turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before.
11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
12 So the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.
13 He had also seven sons and three daughters.




Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

Philippians 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

 

[gordon777]

What Eliphaz initially said to Job was something along the lines of "The innocent are not usually punished by God" (Job 4:7) implying that maybe Job wasn't entirely innocent. Bildad, his other friend, said something along the lines of "If you seek God and plead for mercy then God will restore you" (Job 8:5-6) which doesn't sound like a bad advice. The third friend, Zophar, said something along the lines of "You claim to be clean before God's eyes but if God were to reveal all the secrets of wisdom then God could show you your guilt!" (Job 11:4-6) which could be true enough.

The purpose of the right sounding advise of Jobs three friends, ( and how Job prays for them, required to pray for those three, or they were doomed)) is to reveal that even though they sounded right in their advise, they were not right at all.

They failed to speak the thing that is right about the Lord. ( they may have spoke right about Job, but about the Lord, they are without understanding.)

It is far easier to understand the situation of Job, as you quoted, of God not punishing the innocent, of God being merciful to restore when they had done wrong, and of God showing the guilt of man, again them only able to condemn Job.

What is missing is any understanding of what the Lord was doing, ( which Job understood all along) and that is why it is summed up not good about Jobs three friends in the New test, but only about Jobs example.


What was missing from the three friends was any pity, compassion, care, and Job, as we can easily understand, had to have even greater patience knowing they not only judged and condemned Job, but that the understanding and sensitivity, the love he could have benefited from, they had none of it. ( wisdom is dead without knowing true wisdom is the love of Jesus Christ, who Job speaks of, His redeemer standing at the latter day upon the earth.) Charity edifieth, gives all understanding, can anyone understand, this is what was entirely missing from the wise advisers ?



Job 19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
22 Why do ye persecute me as God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?
23 Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!
24 That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever!
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.


Job 42:8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.


1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

James 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.
10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

 

[gordon777]

And while I commend Job for being "blameless and upright" (Job 1:1) in the eyes of God, who is to say He was perfectly sinless? He couldn't have been perfect as he was only human. The only person we know who was perfect in every way was Jesus, not Job. Who could have ascertained 100% that Job didn't have pride in his heart, per se, for all his initial great success and wealth? Or that he might have had unconfessed sin which he eventually resolved with God but that sin was still present until he confessed it? And it seems he even worried about the possibility of his children cursing God in their hearts so he made burnt offering as a sacrifice to God as a result (Job 1:5).

Job was perfect in his generation. Noah was said to be perfect in his time too.


Genesis 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.


Job cannot be an example of enduring afflictions, and be condemned at the same time. ( stating he is sinful, prideful)

Job had all taken from him, then all restored.



Jobs example, is a right one, not a wrong one, and the three friends of Job are the subtle wrong one, because they were limited in what they knew, limited in feelings, they were not chastened of the Lord, Job came through as well as a man s allowed by the Lord.

Proverbs ( by king Solomon) speaks of the Lord chastening/.correcting, and to not despise that. ( Jesus sums up the wisdom of Solomon, that a greater than Solomon was there in Israel)

Now look at Job 5:17, and we realize the friend of Job gives the same exact advice, to not despise the chastening of the Almighty. This like Solomon, shows the limitation, as more wisdom is required, that Solomon never had, and that Jobs three friends never had.

The key word is told of in Hebrews 12, it is who the Lord loves, He chastises. ( not who had done wrong, as the three friends of Job were seen to be incorrect in, and who had no love of their own to help with, which is what became missing in Christians now too, because iniquity became everywhere.Matthew 24:12)




Proverbs 3:11 My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction:
12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Matthew 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.


Job 5:17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:
18 For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole.

Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.



Job is not an example to sum up as imperfect, and compare Him to Christ. God has examples before Christ who are moved by Jesus, but Jesus Himself is what overcomes the world for all. ( Jobs example, was his own, and not for the world to follow after. We are aware that the devil is who wads after Job. ( who wants to devour everyone now too)



Job 1:7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:



John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

 

[gordon777]

So what gives? Should we be wary of giving counsel and advice to fellow Christians lest we bring God's wrath or judgment into our lives? Or am I missing something here? What do you think about Job's three friends?

Should we understand the book of Job, or any book of God, in the right way, would that help us to give right advise, would it help us to know, if we are able to advise, or not able ?


If God reveals HIs Spirit to us, would we understand then, would He do that to people who turn Gods things upside down, ( those three friends of Job) or if Job did not help them, ( as instructed by God) they would receive nothing themselves.

But now, nobody endures sound doctrine, they do not on this forum, have not from me in one single word yet.

 

[Highway54]

Can those with more Biblical knowledge and/ or theological understanding help me understand why God was angry with Job's three friends, Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar? My basic understanding about his friends is that while they did the "right thing" by showing up at his house to commiserate with Job, they didn't give godly advice and somehow that angered God.

What Eliphaz initially said to Job was something along the lines of "The innocent are not usually punished by God" (Job 4:7) implying that maybe Job wasn't entirely innocent. Bildad, his other friend, said something along the lines of "If you seek God and plead for mercy then God will restore you" (Job 8:5-6) which doesn't sound like a bad advice. The third friend, Zophar, said something along the lines of "You claim to be clean before God's eyes but if God were to reveal all the secrets of wisdom then God could show you your guilt!" (Job 11:4-6) which could be true enough.

And while I commend Job for being "blameless and upright" (Job 1:1) in the eyes of God, who is to say He was perfectly sinless? He couldn't have been perfect as he was only human. The only person we know who was perfect in every way was Jesus, not Job. Who could have ascertained 100% that Job didn't have pride in his heart, per se, for all his initial great success and wealth? Or that he might have had unconfessed sin which he eventually resolved with God but that sin was still present until he confessed it? And it seems he even worried about the possibility of his children cursing God in their hearts so he made burnt offering as a sacrifice to God as a result (Job 1:5).

His friends' advice might not have been perfect, yet they sound very similar to the advice that we Christians give to other believers when we deem they are appropriate to give. Plus, their advice sounds more "solid" to me than what Job's wife said to him when she said "Curse God and die" (Job 2:9). Job immediately rebuked her, of course, but I don't see in the Scripture that God was particularly angry with her when she said that. Or was He?

So what gives? Should we be wary of giving counsel and advice to fellow Christians lest we bring God's wrath or judgment into our lives? Or am I missing something here? What do you think about Job's three friends?

they didn't give godly advice

You hit the nail on the head maam.

 

[Fretslide]

And the moral of the story is - you don't have to go far to find miserable comforters who are posing as friends

 

[Lalas]

I may not be a theologian or scholar and may know less than you but could you provide references where it says God was angry with each of the three friends? I'd like to see that.

WIP, I believe gordon777 has pretty much answered a lot of the questions I have asked in this thread but just to respond to your inquiry. . .

"After the Lord had spoken these words to Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite: "My anger burns against you and against your two friends, for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. Now therefore take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and offer up a burnt offering for yourselves. And my servant Job shall pray for you, for I will accept his prayer not to deal with you according to your folly. For you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." (Job 42:7-8)

For our God to tell someone that He is so angry with them that He won't accept their prayers, even, is God revealing His intense anger! I am glad Job prayed to God on their behalf but still, what would take somebody to "earn" God's wrathful anger like this? Giving bad advice? I almost wonder if there is something more that I am missing out on.

 

[Lalas]

gordon777 , thank you so much for taking the time to write me an essay or two as a response! I may need some time to carefully read your responses and reply back or ask further questions along the way.

 

[Lalas]

You hit the nail on the head maam.

Highway54, are you suggesting that I inadvertently answered my own questions? Lol. Perhaps those three men were at fault for not being able to provide godly advice to Job but if so, it would be something which God could point out for correction (and He did, thankfully) but were those men deserving of such wrath from God? Hmm, I guess in God's terms He'd know each of those men well and whatever He determines to be wrong would be wrong without question. But still, I have always been a little stumped by God's reaction in the book of Job.

 

[WIP]

WIP, I believe gordon777 has pretty much answered a lot of the questions I have asked in this thread but just to respond to your inquiry. . .

"After the Lord had spoken these words to Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite: "My anger burns against you and against your two friends, for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. Now therefore take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and offer up a burnt offering for yourselves. And my servant Job shall pray for you, for I will accept his prayer not to deal with you according to your folly. For you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." (Job 42:7-8)

For our God to tell someone that He is so angry with them that He won't accept their prayers, even, is God revealing His intense anger! I am glad Job prayed to God on their behalf but still, what would take somebody to "earn" God's wrathful anger like this? Giving bad advice? I almost wonder if there is something more that I am missing out on.

Thanks for this. One thing that I have "learned," for lack of a better term, is that putting God on the stand is probably best avoided. I ask myself, "Does it matter why God does what He does? Who am I to question Him?" Even Job experienced the fallout for questioning God. We can read about that in Job, verses 38-40.

But, alas, we are inquisitive for sure and it can be good to understand the answers to questions we may have so long as our motives are good and we are asking for the purpose of gaining understanding and not asking because we want to call God into question or even accuse Him. HIs ways are far above our ways. See Isaiah 55:8-9, Ezekiel 18, and 1 Corinthians 14-16. We are not the one's in control. We are only the clay and He is the potter. See Isaiah 64:8.

 

[Lalas]

And the moral of the story is - you don't have to go far to find miserable comforters who are posing as friends

Fretslide, do you really think Job's three friends were entirely insincere people "posing as friends"? Or were they perhaps well-intended friends who sympathized with Job but in their misguided representation of God, they didn't quite deliver as God wanted them to?

"And when they saw him from a distance, they did not recognize him. And they raised their voices and wept, and they tore their robes and sprinkled dust on their heads toward heaven. And they sat with him on the ground seven days and seven nights, and no one spoke a word to him, for they saw that his suffering was very great." (Job 2:12-13)

Considering that the three friends came to Job in his greatest moment of need, they obviously cared about him enough to offer their support. They wept, tore their clothes, sprinkled dust on themselves, cried out to heaven. They even sat with Job for seven days and nights in total silence! I think these three friends were awesome in that regard, just being there for him out of compassion and solidarity. It's only when they started talking that I believe God found fault with them.

 

[WIP]

Fretslide, do you really think Job's three friends were entirely insincere people "posing as friends"? Or were they perhaps well-intended friends who sympathized with Job but in their misguided representation of God, they didn't quite deliver as God wanted them to?

"And when they saw him from a distance, they did not recognize him. And they raised their voices and wept, and they tore their robes and sprinkled dust on their heads toward heaven. And they sat with him on the ground seven days and seven nights, and no one spoke a word to him, for they saw that his suffering was very great." (Job 2:12-13)

Considering that the three friends came to Job in his greatest moment of need, they obviously cared about him enough to offer their support. They wept, tore their clothes, sprinkled dust on themselves, cried out to heaven. They even sat with Job for seven days and nights in total silence! I think these three friends were awesome in that regard, just being there for him out of compassion and solidarity. It's only when they started talking that I believe God found fault with them.

I agree that we should be careful about convicting Job's friends. How many times do we speak for God when we maybe should be silent. For example, the other day in our Bible study group someone commented about how another person claimed it was God's will when someone was suffering from an illness or something like that.

How can we know for sure that it was God's will? Could it have been that He had a higher purpose in mind? Certainly but we don't really know. Sometimes bad things just happen because we live in a fallen world or perhaps Satan is involved.

 

[Lalas]

Thanks for this. One thing that I have "learned," for lack of a better term, is that putting God on the stand is probably best avoided. I ask myself, "Does it matter why God does what He does? Who am I to question Him?" Even Job experienced the fallout for questioning God. We can read about that in Job, verses 38-40.

But, alas, we are inquisitive for sure and it can be good to understand the answers to questions we may have so long as our motives are good and we are asking for the purpose of gaining understanding and not asking because we want to call God into question or even accuse Him. HIs ways are far above our ways. See Isaiah 55:8-9, Ezekiel 18, and 1 Corinthians 14-16. We are not the one's in control. We are only the clay and He is the potter. See Isaiah 64:8.

WIP, true. We are in no position to question the supremacy of God nor to "accuse" God in any way for what He does or does not do. For it is easy for us to lean on our own understanding of things as we fail to see things from His divine perspective. However, I am a curious being by nature and do dwell on the complexity of our God, at times marvelling at His profound nature and probing into things. . .

 

[Lalas]

I agree that we should be careful about convicting Job's friends. How many times do we speak for God when we maybe should be silent. For example, the other day in our Bible study group someone commented about how another person claimed it was God's will when someone was suffering from an illness or something like that.

How can we know for sure that it was God's will? Could it have been that He had a higher purpose in mind? Certainly but we don't really know. Sometimes bad things just happen because we live in a fallen world or perhaps Satan is involved.

WIP, maybe that is one of the poignant lessons we all need to take from the story of Job? Learn to acknowledge and support in silence when someone is suffering? Maybe text-based advice ought to be reserved for a time and place after the grieving stage has passed? Perhaps it wouldn't be wrong to say that God understands us most intimately to know that we sometimes need to grieve and go through the full stages of grief properly before everything else can be re-established?

 

[WIP]

WIP, true. We are in no position to question the supremacy of God nor to "accuse" God in any way for what He does or does not do. For it is easy for us to lean on our own understanding of things as we fail to see things from His divine perspective. However, I am a curious being by nature and do dwell on the complexity of our God, at times marvelling at His profound nature and probing into things. . .

The fact is God does want us to know Him in very personal way and it is okay for us to ask questions to help us accomplish this.

I've shared this a few times on this site before but a few years ago I was listening to an audio version of the Bible from cover to cover. Something I do every year starting in January. This particular year as I was listening, I kept hearing a common theme over and over grabbing my attention. It inspired me to do a little study and I learned that there were over 100 references in the Old Testament of God declaring who He is. Phrases like, "I am your Shield” or "I am your salvation" or “I am the Lord” or “I am Almighty God” or "I am God" and similar others. Then I searched and found over 130 references of God saying things like, "So you will know that I am God" or "So they will know I am the Lord" or "Know Me" and similar others.

I say keep asking, keep searching, keep knocking for Jesus said, "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened."
Matthew 7:7-8 NKJV

 

[Lalas]

All you have to do is take a little more time in your life, to read the book of Job, that you are questioning. Why question to anyone else, when God has already answered everything in that book of Job ?

Think for a moment, if the friends of Job were unable to correctly answer, does that not give an example right away, that our friends/counsellors, those with lots of knowledge as Jobs three friends had, cannot give right answers, as even Job could not do the correct thing in his temptation of the devil, but the answers came from the Lord God only, who answered to Job at the end of the story, and Job kept silent and acknowledged the Lord as right. ( true confession is salvation.)

The first part you are questioning, about God being angry with Jobs three friends, you have missed, that God is angry ( His wrath kindled) with everybody. Because everyone does wrong, and that is the example of Job.

Job had done right, as right as anyone can do, who fears the Lord, who has knowledge of God, just like those in Judaism might do. But the pains, the suffering, Job could not take nor endure, because that kind of suffering only th Son of God Jesus Christ can endure, and did endure, to take away our exaltations, ( Job had promoted himself, instead of humbling himself before the Lord.) and we are humbled with Christ sharing His sufferings, and receiving HIs endurance of the Holy Spirit. ( by belief He endured the cross and died and rose again.)




Job 32:2 Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.

Job 32:3 Also against his three friends was his wrath kindled, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.

Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.





Even the example of what Job receives from the Lord, teaches how that way, ( of law) was how men used to believe, that when they receive of the Lord, they are gaining. But the new revealed way of following Christ, is the opposite to that, to no longer count i gain, now you lose all to receive the excellency of Jesus Christ our Lord, to know Him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death.



Job 42:10 And the Lord turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before.
11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
12 So the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.
13 He had also seven sons and three daughters.




Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

Philippians 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

gordon777, I like your interpretation of how the story of Job presents that whatever response, advice, or counsel we seek outside of God is absolutely futile. And you may be right that me reading the Bible on my own could lead to having all the answers that I need. However, I enjoy learning about other people's perspectives as it keeps me accountable and informed.

I guess going back to God's wrath on Job's three friends, okay, so you're saying His wrath was "kindled" because they couldn't provide the right answer and somehow these friends condemned Job even though he was innocent? So it was lack of empathy on their part that made God angry with them then? Judging by how eloquently these friends spoke, I gather these friends of his were learned, scholarly men. I could be wrong, of course, but their words sounded fancy to my ears. Do you think God demanded more from these men as a result? That a certain standard of excellence was greatly required of these three friends, yet they failed God by not responding righteously as Job had done? In the same way, does God require more from those who study His word and have known Him and served Him longer than those who are what I'd call "baby Christians"? Would God's admonishment be greater against those who have followed Christ for a long time?

 

[Lalas]

The purpose of the right sounding advise of Jobs three friends, ( and how Job prays for them, required to pray for those three, or they were doomed)) is to reveal that even though they sounded right in their advise, they were not right at all.

They failed to speak the thing that is right about the Lord. ( they may have spoke right about Job, but about the Lord, they are without understanding.)

It is far easier to understand the situation of Job, as you quoted, of God not punishing the innocent, of God being merciful to restore when they had done wrong, and of God showing the guilt of man, again them only able to condemn Job.

What is missing is any understanding of what the Lord was doing, ( which Job understood all along) and that is why it is summed up not good about Jobs three friends in the New test, but only about Jobs example.


What was missing from the three friends was any pity, compassion, care, and Job, as we can easily understand, had to have even greater patience knowing they not only judged and condemned Job, but that the understanding and sensitivity, the love he could have benefited from, they had none of it. ( wisdom is dead without knowing true wisdom is the love of Jesus Christ, who Job speaks of, His redeemer standing at the latter day upon the earth.) Charity edifieth, gives all understanding, can anyone understand, this is what was entirely missing from the wise advisers ?



Job 19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
22 Why do ye persecute me as God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?
23 Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!
24 That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever!
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.


Job 42:8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.


1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

James 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.
10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

gordon777, so you are suggesting that it was the lack of tender loving as epitomized by Christ that made God angry with Job's three friends. While they had the intellectual understanding of godliness and/ or godly living, per se, they didn't implement what they had learned when they reached out to Job. They didn't practice compassion in their hearts and lacked sensitivity of the matter, even though they probably had the capacity, the learning, the education, the upbringing, and the right influences in their lives to think, speak, live, and obey as Job had done? All were given the same (or similar) opportunity but out of those four men only Job responded righteously and correctly which pleased God.

Yes, 1 Corinthians 13:2 certainly comes to mind here, and you are right to address this as well. All understanding and knowledge come to nothing when they are devoid of God's love. This actually makes more sense now.

 

[Lalas]

Job was perfect in his generation. Noah was said to be perfect in his time too.


Genesis 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.


Job cannot be an example of enduring afflictions, and be condemned at the same time. ( stating he is sinful, prideful)

Job had all taken from him, then all restored.



Jobs example, is a right one, not a wrong one, and the three friends of Job are the subtle wrong one, because they were limited in what they knew, limited in feelings, they were not chastened of the Lord, Job came through as well as a man s allowed by the Lord.

Proverbs ( by king Solomon) speaks of the Lord chastening/.correcting, and to not despise that. ( Jesus sums up the wisdom of Solomon, that a greater than Solomon was there in Israel)

Now look at Job 5:17, and we realize the friend of Job gives the same exact advice, to not despise the chastening of the Almighty. This like Solomon, shows the limitation, as more wisdom is required, that Solomon never had, and that Jobs three friends never had.

The key word is told of in Hebrews 12, it is who the Lord loves, He chastises. ( not who had done wrong, as the three friends of Job were seen to be incorrect in, and who had no love of their own to help with, which is what became missing in Christians now too, because iniquity became everywhere.Matthew 24:12)




Proverbs 3:11 My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction:
12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Matthew 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.


Job 5:17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:
18 For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole.

Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.



Job is not an example to sum up as imperfect, and compare Him to Christ. God has examples before Christ who are moved by Jesus, but Jesus Himself is what overcomes the world for all. ( Jobs example, was his own, and not for the world to follow after. We are aware that the devil is who wads after Job. ( who wants to devour everyone now too)



Job 1:7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:



John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Yes, I concur that the Lord chastises those whom He loves. One could even suggest that because God loved those three friends of Job, He decided to show them mercy (I'm sure He could have zapped them if God so desired and believed they were somehow unworthy to be spared). He showed them the right way to be forgiven-- to offer burnt offering and to have Job pray for them.

In this sense, I wonder if Job is kind of like a metaphorical precursor to Christ? Those three friends of Job needed a mediator to pray for them on their behalf. Likewise, we need Jesus to be the ultimate mediator who can reconcile us to God. It's neat to think that through the story of Job, which is about suffering in a nutshell, God was also "painting" a story of something bigger and greater, that would take place later in history. It's cool to imagine that God's creativity and meticulous nature were expressed even in the story of Job!